MG needs it's presence to be greater

[Nezzer]

Hip firing MGs should be only used as a last resort and not to assault buildings. At the moment the game encourages MG'ers to move with the assault troops and use it like an SMG instead of encouraging them to stay back and provide cover, which is something they rarely do anymore.

It's been suggested on another thread, but MGs are not easy weapon to move around and should have a lto of inertia. Perhaps some delay like moving the tank cannon. Also, MGs should not be always carried on ready position, but carried like the AT rifles, and in order to enable hip firing you should press the ADS button, just like in RO1, minus the super recoil.

 

[Josef Nader]

You can't shoot an MG like that, you just can't. For a start the thing is terrifically heavy, next the recoil should cause it to ride up like a mule on speed.

Weight negates recoil. Heavier weapons recoil less.

MG-34 Madness Standing Fire - YouTube
Standing and shooting the MG42 - YouTube
MG-42 sturmfeuer (assault fire) - YouTube
MG42 Full Auto Belt Fed - Good Shooter - YouTube

That last one especially. I don't know about you, but I don't think firing unsupported would have prevented him from tearing up anything on that hill, which looks to be about 50m away, unless my depth perception is off.

Yes, I know most of them are MG-42s. There aren't a whole lot of videos of people hip-firing their 34s. They're close enough in design that I don't feel bad saying they're roughly equivalent.

Is it easy? No. Is it accurate? Gods no. Would you still be able to kill someone who was exposed? Absolutely.

I see nothing unrealistic about the RO2 hipfire MG video above, save for some very un-aware Soviets.

 

[Nezzer]

I see nothing unrealistic about the RO2 hipfire MG video above, save for some very un-aware Soviets.

What's unrealistic is that you can hip fire the MG-34 exaclty as if you were standing still. In those videos none of them was moving, and in the third video you can see it requires a particular stance to fire effectively. That's why I suggest having to press the ADS button in order to be able to hip fire.

 

[Josef Nader]

What's unrealistic is that you can hip fire the MG-34 exaclty as if you were standing still. In those videos none of them was moving, and in the third video you can see it requires a particular stance to fire effectively. That's why I suggest having to press the ADS button in order to be able to hip fire.

Ah, okay. I'll give you that. Trying to move and LMG at the same time would be really damn hard.

 

[beh0lder]

Hip firing MGs should be only used as a last resort and not to assault buildings. At the moment the game encourages MG'ers to move with the assault troops and use it like an SMG instead of encouraging them to stay back and provide cover, which is something they rarely do anymore.

It's been suggested on another thread, but MGs are not easy weapon to move around and should have a lto of inertia. Perhaps some delay like moving the tank cannon. Also, MGs should not be always carried on ready position, but carried like the AT rifles, and in order to enable hip firing you should press the ADS button, just like in RO1, minus the super recoil.

That's actually false. The MG-34 was the best machine gun in world war two because it was light and very mobile and did not have to trade off weight for firepower. German MGers were handpicked from the biggest and strongest soldiers and kept up with not only other infantrymen on the attack but forcemarched all day long to support the mechanized and panzer troops. Their job wasn't to stay and back and provide cover in world war 2, the riflemens job was to provide cover for them while they put out 1500 rounds a minute.

 

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

Ah, okay. I'll give you that. Trying to move and LMG at the same time would be really damn hard.

My point was similar to his, i just worded it terribly. By weight I mean he's lumbering around a resonably heavy weapon and then moving around with it like it's toffee shooting Soviets with astounding accuracy...on the move. I mean...even Rambo slows down a bit with his M60 yet that guys just running around like a happy camper.

 

[Animal_Mother]

Hip firing MGs should be only used as a last resort and not to assault buildings. At the moment the game encourages MG'ers to move with the assault troops and use it like an SMG instead of encouraging them to stay back and provide cover, which is something they rarely do anymore.

They don't do that because it will just get them killed repeatedly as soon as they set up. IRONCLAD PROOF that it's way too easy to make headshots on someone in cover in this game. And don't give me that crap about finding spots on the map from which you can't be seen, that's an exploit (you know who you are) and not real tactics. But if TWI was going to fix this they would have already so it doesn't matter. We wouldn't want to upset the masses we've sold out to, now would we?

 

[The_Cook]

MG is monster as it is now russian or german. players just needed to how to use em

 

[beh0lder]

My point was similar to his, i just worded it terribly. By weight I mean he's lumbering around a resonably heavy weapon and then moving around with it like it's toffee shooting Soviets with astounding accuracy...on the move. I mean...even Rambo slows down a bit with his M60 yet that guys just running around like a happy camper.

I would like to see some simple changes that encourages MG's not to play like that.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Animal Mother is completely correct here. Whenever I am MG I get flanked 1/20 times I die. Killed by artillery about 2/20, and the remainder of the times I die is by some guy just snap shooting me in .02 of a second in between my bursts or right before I drop a burst on him. The surpression effects of 900 rnds per minute tearing the **** out of the guy who tried the same stunt not 3 seconds earlier, and the one who tried it three seconds before that, and three seconds before that again are NILL. Any real human being seeing his mates get shredded like that would rather **** a brick the wrong way through his system ( yeah a pavlov's house brick no less ) than go around that corner.

MG's SHOULD lock down an area and REQUIRE the use of flanking / grenades / artillery / general use of the human brain in order to be defeated.

Just one small bit of brown on the streak that is this games claim to "realism".

 

[Animal_Mother]

MG is monster as it is now russian or german. players just needed to how to use em

Yes, but the problem is "how to use em" doesn't match how the MG would be used in real combat.

 

[Animal_Mother]

Animal Mother is completely correct here. Whenever I am MG I get flanked 1/20 times I die. Killed by artillery about 2/20, and the remainder of the times I die is by some guy just snap shooting me in .02 of a second in between my bursts or right before I drop a burst on him. The surpression effects of 900 rnds per minute tearing the **** out of the guy who tried the same stunt not 3 seconds earlier, and the one who tried it three seconds before that, and three seconds before that again are NILL. Any real human being seeing his mates get shredded like that would rather **** a brick the wrong way through his system ( yeah a pavlov's house brick no less ) than go around that corner.

MG's SHOULD lock down an area and REQUIRE the use of flanking / grenades / artillery / general use of the human brain in order to be defeated.

Just one small bit of brown on the streak that is this games claim to "realism".

Maybe suppression should be cumulative; in other words if 3 things happen in a row that suppress you then you should be suppressed 3 times as long. This would bring into play the advantage conferred by the volume of fire delivered by the MG, not to mention you'll actually see an effect from repeatedly killing enemy in the area you're suppressing--the rest of them will have a really hard time returning fire, as well they should. I'm pretty sure this is not the way it works now.

 

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

Maybe suppression should be cumulative; in other words if 3 things happen in a row that suppress you then you should be suppressed 3 times as long. This would bring into play the advantage conferred by the volume of fire delivered by the MG, not to mention you'll actually see an effect from repeatedly killing enemy in the area you're suppressing--the rest of them will have a really hard time returning fire, as well they should. I'm pretty sure this is not the way it works now.

Check this post out I made earlier on this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=957058&postcount=99

Basically sums it up...

 

[Golf33]

Are you sure the LMGs need much more done to them?

Take a look at this scoreboard. Admittedly I don't usually do quite this well (or nearly this well)... but that's a DP-28, L3 class, roughly level 35 weapon. Top kills for both teams, top score for red team, 2nd highest score overall.

I don't think I did any hipfiring in that match at all. I generally find the DP-28 isn't much good for that - MG-34 is a lot better.

Seems like a reasonable presence on the battlefield to me.

 

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

Are you sure the LMGs need much more done to them?

Take a look at this scoreboard. Admittedly I don't usually do quite this well (or nearly this well)... but that's a DP-28, L3 class, roughly level 35 weapon. Top kills for both teams, top score for red team, 2nd highest score overall.

I don't think I did any hipfiring in that match at all. I generally find the DP-28 isn't much good for that - MG-34 is a lot better.

Seems like a reasonable presence on the battlefield to me.

Using evidence which is basically saying 'hey guys, i'm really good with weapon Y on map X' isn't really helpful. The point is the machineguns have a very limited role on the battlefield in a game that believes it's self to be realistic. Don't get me wrong, you may have done well with it in that specific game, I have as well but the simple point remains it's presence is just a bit of a fizzle.

The MG34 and later the 42 were the cornerstone of the German Army and their tactics and were there to suppress and kill the enemy. The riflemen would cover and pick people off and advance when the 34 or 42 provide cover. At the moment when I have an MG34 shooting at me, one round will land at me, the next will fly over my head, this knowledge combined with the complete lack of useful suppression effects and that if i get shot i have a good chance of magically bandaging myself. This all leads to the point that the MG is no where near as important in the RO2 battlefield then it is in other games. In the HL2 mod RNL it actually showed a much more realistic portrayal of the warfare, though I admitt it is more rural. The machineguns were a force to fear and were pretty much the post important 'class' there was.

And before people say 'what about the Russians', i'm getting to that. Now the Russians LMG was no where near as advanced as the German's, but this isn't something new. The Allies (British and Americans) had similar problems as they were relying on the portable BRENs and BARs to give support fire to advance. Both magazine fed automatic rifles that were just completely outclassed by the MG34 and 42.

The point i'm making is that firstly it's pretty obviousd that TWI have 'nerfed' MG43 by giving it silly recoil which puts it on a bit more of a level playing field to the DP28. Secondly the suppression effect and bandaging that I mentioned previously really don't help establish the presence of the machine gun.

But don't get me wrong, with GOOD squad work it can be used as it was 'in the day' BUT it's still no where near as effective and is a prime target for the robo-armed super-sniper armed enemy, be it an SVT/G41 or an SMG from 150 meters away.

 

[Jippofin]

So Horwath, if I get the point, you are saying that because many many things in the game other than the MG's are broken we should unfix the MG's to match the broken parts of the game to create more realistic overall game?

I do infact agree with you about the overall situation, but I would still want to have other elements of the game brought to the realism level of the MG. I do think there are many things in the game that could be better but I also think it those parts that should be looked at and not the other way round.

 

[Eisprinzessin]

The MG on Lafettes (Maxim/34) are worthless, too.
They need some armorplates like the 34 had on the SDKFZ in RO1.

Stanioned MG Gunner in Ro2 lives for about 10 seconds right now...

 

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

So Horwath, if I get the point, you are saying that because many many things in the game other than the MG's are broken we should unfix the MG's to match the broken parts of the game to create more realistic overall game?

I do infact agree with you about the overall situation, but I would still want to have other elements of the game brought to the realism level of the MG. I do think there are many things in the game that could be better but I also think it those parts that should be looked at and not the other way round.

No Jippofin, i'm saying these things should also be fixed along with the machine gun.

It's like having a clock with more than one broken cog, if you only fix one then the clock will remain broken. I didn't want to get too off topic on my post (in relation to the topic title 'MG needs it's presence to be greater') so I didn't go in too in-depth into the other problems.

Those other problems are contributing factors that make the MG's presence reduced on the battlefield, these things are many and the game won't be what (in my eyes) the realims community wants until they're all adjusted or fixed.

I hope that makes sense to you.

 

[[TORO]Patosentado]

As maybe I continue with my RO1 customs, I have only hipfired the MG in CQB in desperate situations, and mostly with little or no effect... to get spraying bullets into a room I would get a Papasha...

 

[beh0lder]

Weaponology - MG34 and the MG42 - YouTube



DPM light machine gun demonstration at Overlord 2010 - YouTube