MG needs it's presence to be greater

[beh0lder]

The MG-34 and 42 were the lifeline of the German infantry squad. The whole squads life depended on being able to set up and support the MG so the job could get done. They accounted for the overall majority of kills.The machine gunners were truly the elite of the German frontline infantry in WW2 with their whole squad tactics based around the weapon.
In RO they are slow, clumsy and usually easy targets. This is the total opposite of how they should be represented. On some maps people don't even bother taking them.

some ideas
1. faster deployment time
2. Faster reload time
4. More fluid deployment
5. More mobility
6. the option to leave it deployed somewhere, and quickly use it again when necessary. Also the ability to take cover very fast if in danger and leave the MG there.
7. better penetration through buildings and objects.
8. Some sort of concealment, maybe the ability to lay a blanket down with some brush on top of it to better conceal the MG position.

 

[a bit longer cat]

I think decreasing that ridiculous recoil would be enough.

 

[Josef Nader]

Three things that would make the MG a lot more fun to use (from someone who uses MG and only MG):

1) FIX CANNOT DEPLOY HERE. SCREW YOU, GAME. THAT'S A DELIGHTFULLY FLAT SURFACE JUST BEGGING FOR A MACHINE GUN POSITION. WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T DEPLOY ON THIS PERFECTLY SAFE LOOKING PILE OF SANDBAGS OR THIS STURDY LOOKING TABLE? WHY DO I HAVE TO GLUE MYSELF TO WINDOWS OR THE TOPS OF WALLS IN ORDER TO FIRE MY GUN WITH ANY DEGREE OF ACCURACY? THERE ARE LOTS OF FANTASTIC MG POSITIONS THAT I CAN'T ACCESS BECAUSE APPARENTLY IT'S NOT FAIR FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO SET UP AN MG THERE.

2) The ability to shoulder the weapon and ADS without having to be prone. I don't mind some insanely heavy sway and recoil, but hipfiring sucks nuts in CQC, and having to go prone before I can effectively shoot back at an assailant in a pinch basically guarantees my death. You could shoulder the MGs in a tight spot IRL. They aren't designed to be fired like this, but it's better than relying on hip-shooting that hits everything but what you're aiming at or having to drop to your face before you can shoot back. Shoot, you could limit it to when you're holding still and crouched, and it'd still give me a much better chance at surviving when I'm ambushed.

3) Tying into 1 and 2, the ability to brace the MG like any other weapon without being forced to snap into the center of the window like a big fat-headed target. Again, more recoil than taking the time to fully deploy, but far more usable than trying to brace it myself (#2). This will fix a lot of the "CANNOT DEPLOY HERE" problems and make the MG'er much more viable for close infantry support, as I can be on the front lines and still use the same tactics that riflemen use to stay alive (i.e. only peeking out of the corners of windows, setting up back away from the window so I'm harder to spot, etc.)

Recoil is fine. Learning how to manage it is part of learning the class. LMGs aren't designed for sustained fire anyway. Jump on the MMGs for that (you can feed 500+ rounds from an MMG into the same square foot of wall from across Fallen Fighters with the mounted MGs).

Basically, give the MG'er more options as to where he can set up and let me use some of those really nasty ambush points that look so great on paper but the game doesn't actually let me use.

 

[a bit longer cat]

LMGs aren't designed for sustained fire anyway.

I don't think they designed to single or 2 burst shots either.

 

[beh0lder]

I agree with everything you posted, the MG class feels way too vulnerable when not deployed. I think shoulder firing it with small bursts and high recoil would give the class a better shot at survival for starters.

When you deploy the MG it feels like you superglued the tripod to a cement wall, and your range of fire is sometime severely hampered, instead of being able to shimmy the tripod a little to the left to gain a better range of fire you have to undeploy and redeploy again which you usually don't have time to do in the middle of a firefight. With more freedom of deployment the MG would be alot more viable in sporadic fights.

One other thing I would love to see is MG's being used more offensively for taking out defensive positions with their high caliber rounds, if a squad is hiding in a wooden house the MG should be weapon of choice to bring out with it's ability to rip through the walls and kill anyone inside with ease. The weapon should basically be the bane of people who don't chose their cover very wisely.

 

[Jippofin]

I agree with everything you posted, the MG class feels way too vulnerable when not deployed. I think shoulder firing it with small bursts and high recoil would give the class a better shot at survival for starters.

...

One other thing I would love to see is MG's not only giving out cover fire but also on the attack taking out defensive positions with their high caliber rounds, if a squad is hiding in a wooden house the MG should be weapon of choice to bring out with it's ability to rip through the walls and kill anyone inside with ease.

How many shooters out of ten can fire 15kg/1.2m OAL fully automatic weapon from shoulder unsupported? How many of those can hit something while doing so?
Use pistol instead when moving.

...

On the second issue, I have killed people through brick walls with MG34, so I should think it has no problems penetrating wooden walls.

 

[beh0lder]

How many shooters out of ten can fire 15kg/1.2m OAL fully automatic weapon from shoulder unsupported? How many of those can hit something while doing so?
Use pistol instead when moving.

...

On the second issue, I have killed people through brick walls with MG34, so I should think it has no problems penetrating wooden walls.

MG3 shootout in Afghanistan - YouTube

 

[Jippofin]

You didn't answer the question, now did you? I know it can be done, that is not question.

I would like to see that guy run with the MG held up and fight with it like you envision we should ingame. I've trained to fight standing with much lighter MG's (~8kgs unloaded) and only way I'd do it in real life is from the hip. I could probably fire them standing somewhat accurately as I am not lightly built (+90kg), but I definately couldn't use them fighting off-hand. Also on the video you linked you can see how the guys face is turning red from just holding the gun up. He'd probably tip over if he tried to move about with the gun in that position.

If you need to use MG like a rifle, you are doing it wrong in a major way IMHO. At least in real life. I hear it works ok in BF2.

 

[beh0lder]

there are also pictures of german soldiers with mg-34's in kharkov clearing houses without a tripod.

 

[beh0lder]

You didn't answer the question, now did you? I know it can be done, that is not question.

I would like to see that guy run with the MG held up and fight with it like you envision we should ingame. I've trained to fight standing with much lighter MG's (~8kgs unloaded) and only way I'd do it in real life is from the hip. I could probably fire them standing somewhat accurately as I am not lightly built (+90kg), but I definately couldn't use them fighting off-hand. Also on the video you linked you can see how the guys face is turning red from just holding the gun up. He'd probably tip over if he tried to move about with the gun in that position.

If you need to use MG like a rifle, you are doing it wrong in a major way IMHO. At least in real life. I hear it works ok in BF2.

If you were carrying it every single day you would be able to shoulder fire it if you had to.

 

[Sufyan]

You want the MG presence to be known? Play Countdown, suddenly the game makes a lot of sense. The biggest problem with MGs in territory is that it doesn't matter how many you kill, you are being swarmed from every direction all the time simply because the game mode is a swirling mess of people.

 

[Destraex]

I agree a little less recoil would do the trick.
When you first fire a MG from prone position it recoils but you quickly adapt
and it feels comfortable in your shoulder. Then you can aim properly and its just the cone of fire from the MG rifling that spreads the bullets giving a beaten pattern.

 

[beh0lder]

It wasn't uncommon to be fired from the shoulder in close quarter combat, I don't know why this would shock you.

 

[Jippofin]

If you were carrying it every single day you would be able to shoulder fire it if you had to.

Is that so?

 

[beh0lder]

don't forget the mg-34 is also semi-automatic!

 

[Jippofin]

So what.

I do train people to use guns, machineguns tuesday week ago. I don't think you can convince me enough to change my opinion on the matter. I'm afraid we must agree to disagree on the matter

 

[beh0lder]

So what.

I do train people to use guns, machineguns tuesday week ago. I don't think you can convince me enough to change my opinion on the matter. I'm afraid we must agree to disagree on the matter

I imagine it's a matter of opinion what you decide to do with a 25 pound light machine gun when someone catches you off guard

 

[Animal_Mother]

This is simple: MGs aren't as effective in game as irl because general weapon accuracy is too high and targets too easy to spot due to zoom. If you set up a MG you should have a reasonable chance of survival at least for a little while without having to search the map for firing positions from which the enemy simply can't detect you at all, which are probably bugs anyway. As long as you aren't flanked or facing off against more than a couple enemy at once and you are set up in cover you should have a pretty good chance of not being immediately hit imo.

 

[Warishell]

You guys are flat out wrong about the MG, i use it all the time and usually get the most kills in a game.

You can also use it very well for room clearing from the hip, on appartements i've many times captures caps with it. Standing up is not very good exept for really close range but if you crouch you can pull of fairly medium range kills.

Maybe the presence of these machine guns are not felt because, the general sound in the game is kinda weird. Being fired at by these things you should here the bullets snapping around you more.

It dosn't mean you are unable to use them right the're badly implemented. I will post any proof you guys want.

I aggree the're are some issues like placement and stuff. Someplaces mount badly or not at all when the should.

But things like reload speed are fine.

 

[Sufyan]

I know I have already stated this in this thread, but there is no glaring flaws with MG mechanics in the game, the problem is that public Territory games are full of people running at you from every direction with far more mobile weapons, there is little use in dominating a narrow cone of fire when the enemy is literally surrounding you every second of the game. Death is of no immediate consequence in Territory mode, people don't care and suicidal tactics will eventually let one of them kill you.

The MG is a fantastic weapon in Countdown games where the enemy approach is a little bit more predictable, I've seen a single MG kill half the enemy team in a single burst which goes a long way holding the objective just long enough to win the game. You kill them and they are gone for a long time, making it hard to swarm a machinegunner.