Metalradio

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Mr._Kong

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 25, 2006
1,425
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A Sniper Position Near You.
yeah, thats why bands like metallica are so good. amazing lyrics with decent/good singing will beat out bad lyrics with bad singing any day. this judgment can be given merit by simply looking at the popularity of this new screaming/grunting (lol) style of metal and then comparing to the popularity of the old real metal.
 

FixxeR

Member
Mar 11, 2006
51
1
8
Finland
Clean vocals in death metal? You gotta be kidding me.. Like that would ever work.

I can't really figure out what's the point on arguing about how fitting growls/grunting/screaming actually is to a particular genre.. It's not like you are being forced to listen to those genres :). Just enjoy the diversity, eh?

Mr._Kong: Popularity of this new screaming/grunting style of metal? You do know these genres have been there since the 80's? And just because it's not "popular" it doesn't mean it couldn't be any good.. Just because you don't like it, don't state any absolute truths which genres are the best and which aren't.
 

Skew

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 11, 2006
1,028
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Denmark
yeah, thats why bands like metallica are so good. amazing lyrics with decent/good singing will beat out bad lyrics with bad singing any day. this judgment can be given merit by simply looking at the popularity of this new screaming/grunting (lol) style of metal and then comparing to the popularity of the old real metal.

ROFL

Mr. Kong reaches level 2!
100 ignorance points awarded
 

Tomcat_ha

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,283
185
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sponge bob is metal!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NQI3BSVOKM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0kHE7yhAVg


oh and the average person chooses maiden because grunting is something hard to get into if you get into it at all. Maiden is so much nicer on the ears. Death metal even if it didnt have any grunting would deter people because omg it si loud. You need to get past that to appriciate grunting and the black metal raspy thing.
 

Cuddles

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 2, 2006
1,507
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Area 51
You dont grunting and screaming clears my head but yeah its not like oldskool metal like Black Sabbath. I dont listen to all kindsa crap.
 

Helmi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 15, 2006
394
0
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Germany
name a band with amazing musicianship and lame growling/grunting/screaming that would not be improved with real singing
Not sure what you define "lame" as (probabaly any grunting from what I've read in your posts) but if you take a look at bands such as Opeth and Trivium (two of my favourites) you will notiuce that their singers do have an excellent, trained clean voice.
They can also growl in a very high quality (I do agree that there are Metal combos that gave very bad growling where you cannot tell one song or band from another, but that certainly does not mean there are no exceptions and any growling would be bad).

Especially the change between singing and gwoling gives theit songs a much deeper expression and emotion.
The high contrasts (intensified by proper instumental company) make their songs rise above the equal average.

If they would only sing and not growl you'd take away from the depth of their songs, hence the growling is definately an improvement as meant in your initial question.

If you don't like it - fine, but don't claim every bad that does it lacks talent or cannot hit the right tune.
Even growling means you have to mind the pitch.
Listen to it properly and you will (hopefully) notice!
 

Bullitt

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
621
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Washington DC
saw trivium live a while ago and was not impressed... he could sing ok, but the songs were really stupid with bad lyrics and every other word he said was ****.

and what kong means with his post that skew said was ingnorant was that bands like Iron Maiden, Metallica, Judas Priest, etc... have been selling out world tours since they started, trivium or whatever will never reach that same level of popularity, 30 years from now they will not be selling out arenas and putting out new stuff.

and I am not saying that every band should have super clean falsetto vocals, just that the bands who can't be bothered to have vocals that sound good are stupid, there are plenty of singers with rough vocals that can still sing very well.
 

REZ

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
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The Elitist Prick Casino
This is my favorite line..

They can also growl in a very high quality



hahaha
 

Iwan Dankowicz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 26, 2006
37
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in the dumpster near you
Wah t is this about, a damn stupid discussion about "I like grunting" and "I don't like grunting and deathmetal sux", WTF????

I damnit like deathmetal and the gawddamn grunting in it, if you don't like it then donot listen to deathmetal and subgenres.
I do not like clear singing in metal so I don't listen to that kind of metal genre, same as I hate rap music, so I donot listen to that crappy Nu metal with their rap lyrics and stuff (rap and metal do not mix, period), but if someone likes it so let him/her be.
And grunting has nothing to do with cannot make good lyrics or cannot sing, try it for 45 minutes to grunt like deathmetal vocalists and you will have no voice for 3 days while they can talk normally the hour later and grunting is not just pointlessly growling it is with text, but if you never listen to deathmetal you cannot understand the grunt and hwat is sung.
And grunting is not since the new generation bands, like emocore s h i t, it is since 1989 and earlier, hell, grunting originates from crustcore (and that aint metal but an extreme form of punk music).
 

Tomcat_ha

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,283
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Grunting is not easier than normal singing. Infact singers who can grunt and then sing normally in 1 song is just quite incredible. Opeth is the master of this.
 

Parmesan' Urine

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 23, 2005
44
0
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Nor Cal
I always thought that Chuck Billy was a good singer from Testament in the 80s but now his singing is kinda crappy.(still decent) In fact I would go so far to say that he is probably one of my favorite metal vocalists. He had an aggressive sound but he could also hit the high screams too without overdoing it. They were a good thrash metal band from the bay area. Any song off of The New Order album kicks major ass.

Clean vocals can also ruin a good metal song or band. Like Dragonforce, they would be so much better without that singer. My 2 cents.
 

Helmi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 15, 2006
394
0
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Germany
saw trivium live a while ago and was not impressed... he could sing ok, but the songs were really stupid with bad lyrics and every other word he said was ****.
Not exactly sure what **** refers to in this case but I don't find them overly cussing or anything.
This is not your typical nu-metal band like Limp Bizkit where it'S cool to swear.
In fact, Trivium consider themselves NWoBHM.

and what kong means with his post that skew said was ingnorant was that bands like Iron Maiden, Metallica, Judas Priest, etc... have been selling out world tours since they started, trivium or whatever will never reach that same level of popularity, 30 years from now they will not be selling out arenas and putting out new stuff.
Seriously, who cares about the size of the audience of a band?
Firstly, I HATE going to such big-ass concerts because it takes away everything.
Smaller gigs are such much cooler.
Secondly, I couldn't care less if I was the only one listening to a band.
As long as I like their songs, what else does it matter?
As any "pop star" easily shows the mass of audience does in no way equal the quality of your songs.

That is not to diss Iron Maiden, Metallica, Judas Priest, etc.
In fact, I like them very much.
It's just that this isn't the only stuff I like ;)
 

Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
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Denmark
name a band with amazing musicianship and lame growling/grunting/screaming that would not be improved with real singing

Easy: Opeth

They both sing and growl, it all depends on what the track or part of the track calls for.

For instance, imagine "Demon of the fall" sung instead og growled.. not the same effect, not cool, and likewise, if they had growled "Patterns in the ivy" it would also have ****ed.

So there's a great example of a band that does both, and where growling certain lyrics or tracks works better than if they had sung them.
 

Nimsky

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
4,191
945
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Elitist Prick Nude Beach
The problem with screaming / grunting is that it all sounds the same. There is zero creativity in screaming / growling. It just screams (heh, pun not intended:)) "Oh, I can't come up with a good melody so I'll just scream my lungs out."

The fact that many of them sing about pixies and dragons 'n **** doesn't help either. I mean come on, you're in a rockband. It's your responsibility to try to at least be at least a little bit original. I've seen a couple of videos of Children of Bodom and it has pretentiousness written all over it.

It just s ucks that when I listen to a modern metal band and I'm thinking "Hmm, sounds pretty good" but then the sound of some guy that growls like he's pretending he's a monter or something kicks in and I'm like "Oh, dear God..." and hit the stop button. It just ruins the song. It's a waste of good musicianship. A good example is Trivium. If only they'd drop the growling they would be a much better band. I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPbYenI_n8o is a good example of a modern metal band that has a pretty good sense of melody (note: I'm not into them, just a quick YouTube search).

Maiden is so much nicer on the ears.

Isn't that what music is all about in the end? That it pleases the ears? That it sounds good? :D Judging your logic, metalheads listen to deathmetal BECAUSE the screaming sounds bad...:confused:

Especially the change between singing and gwoling gives theit songs a much deeper expression and emotion.
The high contrasts (intensified by proper instumental company) make their songs rise above the equal average.

If they would only sing and not growl you'd take away from the depth of their songs

Ehm, tell me exactly how screaming at the same height over and over and over again, actually gives the music DEEPER meaning and more emotional?:confused: At least with a good melody you can give the song originality... with screaming and growling you can't.

Ask any rock fan to list a couple of classic guitar riffs from the 60's or 70's and I'm sure they can come up with at least six. What about listing riffs from today's metal bands? You can't, because they don't focus on melody, they just focus on playing as fast as possible and have no intention of making original music.

Hah, look what I found. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqkOpArwFD4

ROOOAAAAAARRRR!!!!!

lol.

In the end, melody is extremely important for music. That's what people remember, and hum while they're walking down the street. :)
 

REZ

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,534
482
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The Elitist Prick Casino
Nims said:
Judging your logic, metalheads listen to deathmetal BECAUSE the screaming sounds bad...:confused:


It's because the 'all out' nature of the music makes them feel powerful. Blanket statement, yes - but I'm pretty sure I'm right in most cases... the power chords and growling/screaming raises the hairs on their necks - they get a sense of strength/power from it.

*REZ has left the thread*
 

Nimsky

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
4,191
945
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Elitist Prick Nude Beach
Anyway, I've said enough about the growling. Allow me to post a couple of cool clips. :)

Black Sabbath:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0brWS_b0LU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNppqUotW94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tyglDAw-RQ&mode=related&search=

Deep Purple:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6b6Rg0irxI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQWrMA4AVko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aQ9P4qi8uo (did you see this one I posted before? Watch at 3:00)

Iron Maiden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28GaKoCuobU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur8fERgINGUhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N31o9Zgd0fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csq2NC4pklg

****in hell, now that's what I call epic. It's one of my goals to see Maiden while I still have the chance. :)

That's enough vids for now. :)
 
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Helmi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 15, 2006
394
0
0
Germany
For instance, imagine "Demon of the fall" sung instead og growled.. not the same effect, not cool, and likewise, if they had growled "Patterns in the ivy" it would also have ****ed.
Or "The Night and the Silent Water".
Definately not half as creepy/gloomy if sung with a high-pitched Power Metal voice!
(NB: I do listen to PM and I quite enjoy it, however, it's a totally different atmosphere such songs are in).

The problem with screaming / grunting is that it all sounds the same. There is zero creativity in screaming / growling. It just screams (heh, pun not intended:)) "Oh, I can't come up with a good melody so I'll just scream my lungs out."
Bold statement.
Even more since you seem to despise the growling.
It probabaly only "sounds all the same" to you because you did not bother to listen to much of it - understandable, if you don't like it, but not ideal when trying to judge about it.

As I said before, there certainly are bands that fall under this category but badmouthing every band that has growling/screaming vocals in their songs does not make them justice!

The fact that many of them sing about pixies and dragons 'n **** doesn't help either. I mean come on, you're in a rockband. It's your responsibility to try to at least be at least a little bit original. I've seen a couple of videos of Children of Bodom and it has pretentiousness written all over it.
Now, dragons and swords are more the themes Power Metal is about.
Last time I checked they had high-pitched clean voices.

CoB are pretty original, if you ask me.
Can't think of another band that did the Melodic Death Metal back then.

Also, I never try to judge any band by their videos.
It's about the music!
I want to listen to it from CD, not watch it on MTV...

It just s ucks that when I listen to a modern metal band and I'm thinking "Hmm, sounds pretty good" but then the sound of some guy that growls like he's pretending he's a monter or something kicks in and I'm like "Oh, dear God..." and hit the stop button. It just ruins the song. It's a waste of good musicianship. A good example is Trivium. If only they'd drop the growling they would be a much better band. I think THIS is a good example of a modern metal band that has a pretty good sense of melody (note: I'm not into them, just a quick YouTube search).
Oh, Avenged Sevenfold.
Yes, they are pretty good, but you wouldn't like their previous two albums (hint: there was screaming involved).
I got to say, though, their third incarnation is much better than the previous ones and it is completely screaming-free.
They also added a lot of Melodic parts, so that hepled their music a lot.
Also, I'm not too fond of the way the singer screams, it always depends on the kind of voice for me.

In Flames give a much better performance in that part!

Isn't that what music is all about in the end? That it pleases the ears? That it sounds good? :D Judging your logic, metalheads listen to deathmetal BECAUSE the screaming sounds bad...:confused:
No.
That's what Easy Listening is all about - to sound good to the ears.
So you can switch your brain off and relax.
That's not what Metal is about IMO.

That's exactly the problem of today's pop music - just some non-intriguing melody that douns ok and does not stir up.
Music always had a political side to it and to be comfortable all the time is not it!

Ehm, tell me exactly how screaming at the same height over and over and over again, actually gives the music DEEPER meaning and more emotional?:confused: At least with a good melody you can give the song originality... with screaming and growling you can't.
Again, an unqualified respone of yours.
I'm sorry, I really don't want to flame you, but in one paragraph you claim that you stop listening to the music once the growling starts and in the other you make claims how it's all the same height etc.
How can you know when you never really listened to it?

Also, had you listened to Opeth, you'd noticed how it is NOT the same height all over.
Give it a chance, you may discover more in it!

Ask any rock fan to list a couple of classic guitar riffs from the 60's or 70's and I'm sure they can come up with at least six. What about listing riffs from today's metal bands? You can't, because they don't focus on melody, they just focus on playing as fast as possible and have no intention of making original music.
While I do enjoy the music from nearly all eras (inclduing 60ies and 70ies) that does not mean there weren't any repetitive or unoriginal songs around back then.
There certainly are.

Progressive Metal does an excellent job at linkiong the styles of the past and somewhat of the future (since it isn't that common just now)!

In the end, melody is extremely important for music. That's what people remember, and hum while they're walking down the street. :)
Oh, definately!
Thing is, I often catch myself humming one of Opeth's themes, because there IS melody in the songs and quite good ones, too!

Please, you finally need to realize that growling in a song does not automatically exclude any melody.
Yes, there are bands such as Marduk that do not have much of that, but it's definately not a one or another thing!
 
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Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
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Denmark
Lots of stuff, too much to quote.

You have to broaden your view of metal, its not all highspeed thrashing and screaming without melody (some is, granted, and im not a big fan of thease bands, but thats not all there is).

There are many genres within metal, and you can definately find something to your tastes.


Personally im partial to Doom Metal, more melody and less tempo, varying from the slow and melancholy to the bombastic and powerfull, thease bands often sing most or all their lyrics, growling only in the chorus or in power sequences where it is appropriate and actually gives it flavour and sounds good (just singing in thease sequences would not give it enough power and depth of sound).