RO2 Message to the Developers

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RenzR

RenzR

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2013
48
0
0
I'd like to have the attention of the developers for a few moments to pose them a single question:

-Is it your intention to create a realistic game?

If the answer is no, than carry on.

If the answer is yes, then let me tell you that you are failing to do so under different aspects:

-the one that is dearest to me is the unbalance between the k98k and the russian counterpart the mosin nagant. Rifleman is my favourite class and thus I play mostly in that role, and I must say that it is damaged by an unfair balance between the two rifles: the k98 was a modern bolt action carabine for the time, it was light, accurate, fast, and short. Because of those reasons it should be more accurate than the mosin nagant (a late '800 long, heavy, old rifle), and it should also have much less sway. Moreover you should correct the fact that at close range the k98 shoots higher than were it actually aims.

-Limited hero slot: you added this limitation because "there were too many enemy weapons around", so it was said. Maybe that was true, maybe that wasn't, point is, as far as the german faction is concerned, that is istorically unaccurate: the soviets lost literally MILLIONS of soldiers during Operation Barbarossa, e it was very easy for a wermacht soldier to get his hands on russian ordinance. Speaking in terms of gameplay fairness and equity, that simply is a plague for people like me who have not great computers, and thus have to wait some time to get into the match: and when we do, all or most hero slots are already taken by better equipped players. Because of all of this I suggest to remove this limitation for both factions.

-the "banzai charge" in RO2, is completely gamey and completely idiotic at the same time, without saying that it is also obviously unrealistic and to the complete advantage of the russian faction. If the reader is unaware of this phenomenon please check this link.

-I would also suggest to implement correctly the magnetic AT mines for the german team.

As of now I have more than 500 hours of gameplay, mostly as a riflema, so even thoug I might not be the most experienced player I know what I am talking about, so please I ask that you take into consideration the above.

Obviously I appreciate feedback from other players, and if I find more issues I'll be sure to post them below.
 
Cwivey

Cwivey

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 14, 2011
2,963
118
63
In the hills! (of England)
*The k98 weighs less (player moves like <1% faster) and bolts faster than the Mosin in-game (only a slight difference but it's still there). I don't think there needs to be any difference other than that personally.

*I like the limited Hero slots, the passive team benefits to suppression resistance and the smexy suits should be "special". Enemy weapons can be granted to Veterans (not just Heroes) as a server option.

*It's never actually used to any great effect for the Russian team, and it doesn't provide any damage resistance or stamina increases like for the Japanese team.

*Making German AT nades harder to use would be a nice gameplay thing, and a more reasonable interpretation of the actual thing irl.
 
aaz777

aaz777

Active member
Jun 30, 2013
1,840
3
38
Russia, Pushkin
Is it another guy who notices all the unfair and "disbalancing" russian advantages / german disadvantages, but all unfair and unhistorical german buffs and russian nerfs are entirely ignored?
 
RenzR

RenzR

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2013
48
0
0
aaz777 said:
Is it another guy who notices all the unfair and "disbalancing" russian advantages / german disadvantages, but all unfair and unhistorical german buffs and russian nerfs are entirely ignored?
Click to expand...
I am not aware of those, because I never play as russian, that's why I said that other player's feedback is welcomed, if you have something to suggest, do it. and btw I am really really curious to hear about these german buffs and russian nerfs you talk about :)
 
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RenzR

RenzR

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2013
48
0
0
Cwivey said:
*The k98 weighs less (player moves like <1% faster) and bolts faster than the Mosin in-game (only a slight difference but it's still there). I don't think there needs to be any difference other than that personally.

*I like the limited Hero slots, the passive team benefits to suppression resistance and the smexy suits should be "special". Enemy weapons can be granted to Veterans (not just Heroes) as a server option.

*It's never actually used to any great effect for the Russian team, and it doesn't provide any damage resistance or stamina increases like for the Japanese team.

*Making German AT nades harder to use would be a nice gameplay thing, and a more reasonable interpretation of the actual thing irl.
Click to expand...

it is not about the movement speed and bolting (which is to be faster because of the curved bolt), it is about the sway of the aimed-down weapon. a considerably harder object (the mosin nagant) is considerably more difficult to be held up aligned and steady than a considerably lighter one (the k98). though in the game it feels completely the opposite: the mosin seem to have less sway and to be absolutely more proficient to use than its german counterpart (in my case I am inclined to think so not only because of the feel ingame, but also because even having used both rifles extensively [both at lvl 50] i have "only" a 65% accuracy rate with the k98, while it jumps to 75% for the mosin nagant)

about the russian charge: it is constantly used to great effect, at least by the russians: people do it all the time to charge "just because" when moving around even with no enemies around just to hear the war cry i guess, I do it too. difference is, if you do it as a german, you suppress the enemy (which in this case is no one), but if you do it as a ruskie, you automatically grant all your nearby teammates immunity from suppression, which is a huge deal for snipers and riflemans, and still very helpful for all others. as far the japanese charge, well, that is obviously just a pathetic try to balance the game since the americans have 100x the japanese's firepower

ultimately well imo it should be mandatory that all veterans should have access to enemy weapons
 
aaz777

aaz777

Active member
Jun 30, 2013
1,840
3
38
Russia, Pushkin
RenzR said:
I am not aware of those, because I never play as russian, that's why I said that other player's feedback is welcomed, if you have something to suggest, do it. and btw I am really really curious to hear about these german buffs and russian nerfs you talk about :)
Click to expand...

Spoiler!
 
LugNut

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
2,288
117
0
I am really really curious to hear about these german buffs and russian nerfs you talk about*
Click to expand...

Just search the forums, there's piles of threads about axis vs allied weapons, general axis superiority in weapons, loadout and playerbase. Since you only play axis, and never allies, I can almost forgive your ignorance.

Playing only one side seems silly to me at best, but whatever floats your boat.
 
RenzR

RenzR

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2013
48
0
0
aaz777 said:
Spoiler!
Click to expand...

well first of all we must differentiate between historical accuracy and physical-logic realism. if you say that german should have less MP40 because they were used only by certain troops (squad leaders and fallschirmjagers, for whom the MP40 was specifically designed) I might just answer that soviet "soldiers" were sent to the front sometimes even unarmed, because the soviet union was unprepared to fight until the late part of the conflict in the soviet homeland, and often resorted to use bricks, rocks, sticks and unloaded weapons (in stalingrad) to physically beat the enemy, just as I might tell you that soviet "soldiers" were poor conscripted schmucks without any kind of training, so they should have like a third of the precision with firearms, and triple suppression effect and double reload times, compared to the wermacht soldiers, who arguably were the best trained force in Europe. so that argument is kinda not in your favour. same goes for the snipers, g41, et cetera

also you say that ppsh has too much recoil, that mp40 has not enough, but also that 7,62 bullet was good for penetration. well, mp40 has a low recoil because of a small caliber bullet and a low rate of fire. but apparently you want a ppsh with a crazy rate of fire, shooting assault rifle's caliber bullets, but also with low recoil. wow

you also talked about anti tank rifles. that's nice. because the wermacht did not have any kind of weapon like that. the anti tank rifles they used were captured from the soviets, because their ordinance was the way most effective panzerfaust (for general infantry) and panzerschreck (for specialized anti tank squads), but they aren't in this game, yet I don't see that bothering you :)

german HMG DOES overheat, and truly does so very quickly (i kinda know, having mg34 at lvl 50 and mg42 at lvl 15 or so)

the f-1 granade does not have tons of frags with hig radious. well, consider that a m-67 american granade, designed 22 years after the end of WWII and still in service to this day has a lethal radious of only 5 meters, so I do not see on which basis you say that F1 granades (which were designed in the early '40s) should basically be hydrogen bombs (Wikipedia docet)

you might be kinda right about the stock thing

mk2 ar is **** in this game, even though the AVT is righteously even more so
 
aaz777

aaz777

Active member
Jun 30, 2013
1,840
3
38
Russia, Pushkin
. if you say that german should have less MP40 because they were used only by certain troops (squad leaders and fallschirmjagers, for whom the MP40 was specifically designed)
Click to expand...
I did not say that. I said that MP40 was produced in numbers 3-5 times less than PPSh.

I might just answer that soviet "soldiers" were sent to the front sometimes even unarmed
Click to expand...
Proof that it happened in significant number of cases?
I personally know one or two such examples. Both are about 1941 and they are... lets say very rare cases. Like, VERY rare. And in both of them those soilders who didnt get weapons were getting many grenades, like 8 per person.
Much more significant example is Opolcheniye that defended Leningrad and Moscow were armed with foreign rifles, like arisaka, Gra, Lebel, Ross, lewis and polish BAR. They had all weapons they could get but they were not unarmed. The Pushkin town where i live since 3 years old was defended by volunteers with "canadian rifles" which is most probably Ross rifles.

If you think that germans never had any ammo/weapon shortages you are wrong. IN the end of Stalingrad battle germans had very big problems with supplies including ammo. Much more than soviets. Also someone on this forum was mentioning that german volksturm was often sent without weapons and ordered to take them from dead bodies.
Also, may you dont know, It was a popular soviet tactic in Stalingrad to make assault groups fully armed with automatic/special weapons, lots of grenades and many ammo. Pavlovs house defence is a good example, soviet soilders here were armed with automatic weapons only and they could take as many ammo as they wanted.

just as I might tell you that soviet "soldiers" were poor conscripted schmucks without any kind of training,
Click to expand...

You probably forget that there were like different troops on both sides. Soviet regular infantry in the beginning of war often was not enough trained, Opolcheniye was not enough trained, yes. Germans in the end were also poor trained for example, that doesnt mean that all german soilders were not trained. For example soviet naval infantry had such training level that they could disasemble/asemble german weapons with closed eyes.

I am not against making troops with different reload times and supression may be on different maps. Not biased **** with horrible russians and great aryan knights, but something edited individually for every map according to historical information. For example, german volksturm is poor trained, wermacht is middle trained, some SS more trained. On soviet side Opolcheniye and regular infantry in the beginning ( sometimes ) is less trained while NKVD forces, naval infantry, sapper assault brigades, etc are more trained. Ro2 will obviously never have this.

same goes for the snipers, g41,
Click to expand...

What training level has to do with G-41? it was 1) overall horrible weapon 2) insanely unreliable 3) VERY rare, especially compared to soviet SVT ( even if we will consider that they were lost in big numbers ) 4) often sent back because it was "unusable".

also you say that ppsh has too much recoil, that mp40 has not enough, but also that 7,62 bullet was good for penetration. well, mp40 has a low recoil because of a small caliber bullet and a low rate of fire. but apparently you want a ppsh with a crazy rate of fire, shooting assault rifle's caliber bullets, but also with low recoil. wow
Click to expand...
.....................
waht?
How does MP-40 has lower caliber than PPSh? 9 is less than 7,62? did you even study arithmetics?
Or by caliber you meant whole cartridge dimentions? then, by " PPSh using assault rifle caliber bullets " you probably mean PPSh shooting 7,62x39?

wow indeed.


you also talked about anti tank rifles. that's nice. because the wermacht did not have any kind of weapon like that.
Click to expand...

.......
Pzb39?
Sturmpistole, Kampfpistole?

the anti tank rifles they used were captured from the soviets
Click to expand...

Pzb39 captured from soviets?
Soviets only had small group of pzb39 ( copied from germans ) produced in Tula, there was like about 400 of them while germans produced 40 000.


Oh wait.
You will probably now give me pictures of german standing with PTRD, right?
21078317.jpg

Look, all main infantry weapons that were used by soviets were mkb42 captured from germans.


because their ordinance was the way most effective panzerfaust (for general infantry) and panzerschreck (for specialized anti tank squads), but they aren't in this game, yet I don't see that bothering you :)
Click to expand...

panzerfausts and panzershrecks in Stalingrad?
ok then, give soviets their late war RPG-6, T-34-85 and IS-2. And Also assault engineer sapper brigades where all soviets were armed with automatic weapons and most of them had body armor :cool:


german HMG DOES overheat,
Click to expand...

Where?
I have tested many times , HMG-34 does not overheat even if you shoot whole ammo with pressed trigger. It does not even have barrel change animation in game files, i know it because i was making HMG-42 for hotw mod.

the f-1 granade does not have tons of frags with hig radious.
Click to expand...

...
It does.
I dont even want to explain why and how, just google it if you want to know more. Its typical defensive grenade with few explosives but a lot of fragmentation.

well, consider that a m-67 american granade, designed 22 years after the end of WWII and still in service to this day has a lethal radious of only 5 meters
Click to expand...

" my petard produced in 21th century had only little tiny explosion without fragmentation and any damage. How did germns dare to have M-24 grenade that had 200 gramms TNT??? "


so I do not see on which basis you say that F1 granades (which were designed in the early '40s) should basically be hydrogen bombs
Click to expand...

You dont know the difference between offensive and defensive grenades and difference between explosion and fragmentation, do you?
 
aaz777

aaz777

Active member
Jun 30, 2013
1,840
3
38
Russia, Pushkin
the f-1 granade does not have tons of frags with hig radious. well, consider that a m-67 american granade, designed 22 years after the end of WWII and still in service to this day has a lethal radious of only 5 meters,
Click to expand...

F-1 cant have huge frag radius because american M67 grenade does not have the same frag radius.

Seriously, this is the argument of the year. Congratulations.
 
aaz777

aaz777

Active member
Jun 30, 2013
1,840
3
38
Russia, Pushkin
Soviet PTRS cannot penetrate 40mm of armor because american M-200 intervention rifle does not have the same penetration.

Lets go.
 
Ducky

Ducky

Super Moderator
May 22, 2011
6,358
237
0
Netherlands
Realistic game is a contradiction in terms. If the game would be fully realistic, then those playing the axis faction would suffer from under-cooling. As a result their vision would be blurred at times and their aim unsteady. There weapons would jam a lot more too, because they weren't designed for the extreme cold temperatures. While on the allies faction the soldiers had warmer clothing and their weaponry less jammy in extreme cold.

If the game should be as realistic as possible, then those environmental influences should be added too. Thus when you select the axis faction, then a pop-up should show up saying "You selected axis on a winter map. Please go sit in your refrigerator while playing this game."
 
RenzR

RenzR

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2013
48
0
0
aaz777 said:
I did not say that. I said that MP40 was produced in numbers 3-5 times less than PPSh.


Proof that it happened in significant number of cases?
I personally know one or two such examples. Both are about 1941 and they are... lets say very rare cases. Like, VERY rare. And in both of them those soilders who didnt get weapons were getting many grenades, like 8 per person.
Much more significant example is Opolcheniye that defended Leningrad and Moscow were armed with foreign rifles, like arisaka, Gra, Lebel, Ross, lewis and polish BAR. They had all weapons they could get but they were not unarmed. The Pushkin town where i live since 3 years old was defended by volunteers with "canadian rifles" which is most probably Ross rifles.

If you think that germans never had any ammo/weapon shortages you are wrong. IN the end of Stalingrad battle germans had very big problems with supplies including ammo. Much more than soviets. Also someone on this forum was mentioning that german volksturm was often sent without weapons and ordered to take them from dead bodies.
Also, may you dont know, It was a popular soviet tactic in Stalingrad to make assault groups fully armed with automatic/special weapons, lots of grenades and many ammo. Pavlovs house defence is a good example, soviet soilders here were armed with automatic weapons only and they could take as many ammo as they wanted.



You probably forget that there were like different troops on both sides. Soviet regular infantry in the beginning of war often was not enough trained, Opolcheniye was not enough trained, yes. Germans in the end were also poor trained for example, that doesnt mean that all german soilders were not trained. For example soviet naval infantry had such training level that they could disasemble/asemble german weapons with closed eyes.

I am not against making troops with different reload times and supression may be on different maps. Not biased **** with horrible russians and great aryan knights, but something edited individually for every map according to historical information. For example, german volksturm is poor trained, wermacht is middle trained, some SS more trained. On soviet side Opolcheniye and regular infantry in the beginning ( sometimes ) is less trained while NKVD forces, naval infantry, sapper assault brigades, etc are more trained. Ro2 will obviously never have this.



What training level has to do with G-41? it was 1) overall horrible weapon 2) insanely unreliable 3) VERY rare, especially compared to soviet SVT ( even if we will consider that they were lost in big numbers ) 4) often sent back because it was "unusable".


.....................
waht?
How does MP-40 has lower caliber than PPSh? 9 is less than 7,62? did you even study arithmetics?
Or by caliber you meant whole cartridge dimentions? then, by " PPSh using assault rifle caliber bullets " you probably mean PPSh shooting 7,62x39?

wow indeed.




.......
Pzb39?
Sturmpistole, Kampfpistole?



Pzb39 captured from soviets?
Soviets only had small group of pzb39 ( copied from germans ) produced in Tula, there was like about 400 of them while germans produced 40 000.


Oh wait.
You will probably now give me pictures of german standing with PTRD, right?
21078317.jpg

Look, all main infantry weapons that were used by soviets were mkb42 captured from germans.




panzerfausts and panzershrecks in Stalingrad?
ok then, give soviets their late war RPG-6, T-34-85 and IS-2. And Also assault engineer sapper brigades where all soviets were armed with automatic weapons and most of them had body armor :cool:




Where?
I have tested many times , HMG-34 does not overheat even if you shoot whole ammo with pressed trigger. It does not even have barrel change animation in game files, i know it because i was making HMG-42 for hotw mod.



...
It does.
I dont even want to explain why and how, just google it if you want to know more. Its typical defensive grenade with few explosives but a lot of fragmentation.



" my petard produced in 21th century had only little tiny explosion without fragmentation and any damage. How did germns dare to have M-24 grenade that had 200 gramms TNT??? "




You dont know the difference between offensive and defensive grenades and difference between explosion and fragmentation, do you?
Click to expand...

more ppsh then mp40 were produced because the soviets had twice the man and a much greater industrial capacity

ppsh recoil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOMimmZel2g

volksturm troop were not used during the invasion of the soviet union

same goes for the g41 was not referred to the training but to the precedent argument about weapon diffusion and use

mg34 overheating and barrel changing in ro2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnPzH_1OP5s

i never said that germans never had supply shortages, for they were the cause barbarossa failed

sturmpistole was almost immediatly dismissed because of its total inefficiency

the recoil of a gun is not dependent on the size of bullet itself but by the quantity of propellent each cartridge holds. even if a 9mm bullet is slightly bigger than a 7.62 one, a cartridge of the second variety holds much more powder, causing a greater kick whenever it is exploded https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...G7yc0vsOt5ehHq38_Q3wx_8K6ixxVo_zrHps0hntSRpzg

it's not about *petards* is about military ordinance that is engineered and designed to be the as efficient as possible. i doubt that a grenade built with a technological advantage of 27 years is to be less powerful than one without it. this said, the before cited m67 has a filling of 180 grams of comp b (which is made up of TNT for 30 and something %) while your beloved f1 is only filled with 60 grams of TNT. i highly doubt that the latter has a greater lethal range than the first

while yes i might have been confused about some aspect relative to anti tank ordinance, i will tell you this: if the axis corp amounted to 800.000 men, and killed 4.000.000 soviet military soldiers, with a casualty rateo higher than 4:1, there was probably a reason
 
RenzR

RenzR

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2013
48
0
0
Ducky said:
Realistic game is a contradiction in terms. If the game would be fully realistic, then those playing the axis faction would suffer from under-cooling. As a result their vision would be blurred at times and their aim unsteady. There weapons would jam a lot more too, because they weren't designed for the extreme cold temperatures. While on the allies faction the soldiers had warmer clothing and their weaponry less jammy in extreme cold.

If the game should be as realistic as possible, then those environmental influences should be added too. Thus when you select the axis faction, then a pop-up should show up saying "You selected axis on a winter map. Please go sit in your refrigerator while playing this game."
Click to expand...

i do not call for an absolutely realistic game. i call for a somewhat realistic but also fair game. meaning yes german and soviet weapons should be different, but to be fair both factions should have somewhat easy access to their counterpart's ordinance. realism should only be implement as far as weapon physics go, because if you go further then that you might argue what you did about climate, even if I don't agree with that, and I could once again say the the russian army was in terrible shape in terms of leadership and training. and that would be game breaking. faction should be equals, none of that charge idiocy, or other hidden bonuses there might be, and weapon should just make sense. if a real comparison between mp40 and ppsh would prove that the latter has less recoil, i wouldn't give a damn, i'd just use the ppsh instead of the mp40 because I could. but right now I cannot.
 
Z

Zakarro

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 11, 2014
664
0
0
lol banzai idiotic

Hey since you seem to know so much maybe they forgot to teach you that banzai charges are accurate, COs would pump the troops full of amphetamines and sake to charge, hence less tolorance to pain and damage. The black screen of enemy is the represent the fear of the banzai
 
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