Melee with non-melee weapons

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godisnowhere

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 12, 2009
4
0
0
a`la: Halo, Crysis and others.
Butt strikes, pistol whips, clubbing whatever.

How about magic duct tape + combat knife + rifle --> bayonet.
Maybe only a support can do it.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
a`la: Halo, Crysis and others.
Butt strikes, pistol whips, clubbing whatever.

How about magic duct tape + combat knife + rifle --> bayonet.
Maybe only a support can do it.

Well how do they implement this? Add a seperate button for melee hits with a gun?

They use the secondary for iron sights / scope, some guns already have a special attack (could be considered a tertiary), and they would add a fourth weapon button now?
 

Griever

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 16, 2009
419
2
0
Finland
Why not use some glue to attach a grenade launcher to a hunting-shotgun? Then you add sniper scope on it and a microwave with duct tape. Now that's something I want. Only a "MacGyver" perk can do it.
 
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Ihmhi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 7, 2009
401
6
0
35
www.asseater.org
It could be interesting but it might be interpreted as copying L4D. Plus they would have to make new animations for every weapon. I don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever.
 

Cr@zY-$HeeP

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 21, 2009
197
15
0
New York
www.darkrepublicstudios.com
It could be interesting but it might be interpreted as copying L4D. Plus they would have to make new animations for every weapon. I don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever.

Truth.

At this point in time, the magnitude of certain suggestions is becoming a little out of hand. When you discuss the addition/modification of a weapon in such a way, you are basically suggesting:

- Global animation changes of all weapon models
- Global animation changes of all player models (to account for weapon-swings)
- Systematic balancing of content so it meshes with the game and does not overpower what's already there
- Programming all the new features so that they implement properly

At that point (I'm sure there's even more to do on top of what I mentioned) it just seems like a huge burden, and it's something I'm sure nobody at TWI wants to undertake.

Going back to re-author content that's already considered "finished" is borderline agonizing, at least in my experience.
 

Sammers

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 2, 2009
1,646
547
0
Scotland
I think it would make a decent secondary attack for any weapon that doesn't have one already. Handcannon, Lever Action and Hunting Shotgun are the first that spring to mind. Then again, I wouldn't say it's a necessary feature that we need right now, so maybe in the distant future we'll see this.
It could be interesting but it might be interpreted as copying L4D.
Oh please, as if L4D hasn't stolen enough from KF. I mean, even Left 4 Dead 2 has 'stolen' the Fire Axe and Chainsaw. There's a word for this in the business world and it's called Benchmarking; companies do it all the time and it's essentially copying good ideas that work. I say fire away with the idea theft. after all, it's only evening up the grounds a little.
 

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
I wouldn't mind it, but button mapping would definitely be an issue, among other things. Plus, unless the melee attack has a stumble back/stun effect...it doesn't really serve a purpose. Almost no damage, no stun, no knockback = a wasted a click when things are chewing on your face.

Plus, berzerker would probably need to be reworked as well in light of the changes. Anything melee effects/advantages would have to be added to berzerker as well.
 

Evilsod

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 20, 2009
883
137
0
Ylivieska, Finland
Oh please, as if L4D hasn't stolen enough from KF. I mean, even Left 4 Dead 2 has 'stolen' the Fire Axe and Chainsaw. There's a word for this in the business world and it's called Benchmarking; companies do it all the time and it's essentially copying good ideas that work. I say fire away with the idea theft. after all, it's only evening up the grounds a little.

Evil Dead says hello. And i'm sure someone can probably find an earlier example of some 'genius' deciding a Chainsaw goes well with Zombies. Some things are benchmarking, others are just the bleeding obvious.

Melee wouldn't work. It would need a massive overhaul of things in game, animations for 'melee'd' zeds would be needed, and it would probably be abused or unbalanced. The point is you shoot the Clot in the face, you don't melee him in the face with your pistol, thats what your knife is for. It would never fit in with the game and its too late anyway for such a drastic gameplay change.
 

Sammers

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 2, 2009
1,646
547
0
Scotland
Evil Dead says hello. And i'm sure someone can probably find an earlier example of some 'genius' deciding a Chainsaw goes well with Zombies. Some things are benchmarking, others are just the bleeding obvious.
Fire Axe and Chainsaw were only an example. I'm sure Valve just pulled their infected design out of thin air then because it's oh so obvious to pick? I'm sure they happened to think of having a crawling, jumping enemy and a fat enemy that vomits, which according to the commantery, was originally going to be a screaming enemy, and they come up with it all by themselves? It's not hard to see that some elements were just taken from other gam-......well....Killing Floor mod. It's no doubt the reason that the two games are compared so much, despite being so different. All I'm saying is that if L4D can take ideas from Killing Floor, why can't Killing Floor take ideas from L4D? Seems only fair.
 
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Nanostrike

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
2,025
250
0
Fire Axe and Chainsaw were only an example. I'm sure Valve just pulled their infected design out of thin air then because it's oh so obvious to pick? I'm sure they happened to think of having a crawling, jumping enemy and a fat enemy that vomits, which according to the commantery, was originally going to be a screaming enemy, and they come up with it all by themselves? It's not hard to see that some elements were just taken from other gam-......well....Killing Floor mod. It's no doubt the reason that the two games are compared so much, despite being so different. All I'm saying is that if L4D can take ideas from Killing Floor, why can't Killing Floor take ideas from L4D? Seems only fair.

As long as they don't take the idea to stop all updates and reveal a sequel, I'm fine with this...
 

Evilsod

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 20, 2009
883
137
0
Ylivieska, Finland
Fire Axe and Chainsaw were only an example. I'm sure Valve just pulled their infected design out of thin air then because it's oh so obvious to pick? I'm sure they happened to think of having a crawling, jumping enemy and a fat enemy that vomits, which according to the commantery, was originally going to be a screaming enemy, and they come up with it all by themselves? It's not hard to see that some elements were just taken from other gam-......well....Killing Floor mod. It's no doubt the reason that the two games are compared so much, despite being so different. All I'm saying is that if L4D can take ideas from Killing Floor, why can't Killing Floor take ideas from L4D? Seems only fair.

Yes there are similarities between the Bloat and Boomer. Much like the Siren and the 'Screamer'. But at the end of the day, they were after something to disorientate the survivors and attract the infected. There are only so many ways you can achieve that. Screaming is a fairly logical choice... trying to say thats been copied is stretching it, the Bloat was probably a starting point though for the Boomer, but the final products are nothing alike.

The games are nothing alike. They feature 'Zombies' under different names and various methods of killing them. You can take the Bloat and turn it into the Boomer but you can't take melee'ing from L4D and turn it into something doable in KF. It already has melee weapons, it'd be too huge a gameplay change.
 

Sammers

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 2, 2009
1,646
547
0
Scotland
But at the end of the day, they were after something to disorientate the survivors and attract the infected. There are only so many ways you can achieve that. Screaming is a fairly logical choice...
True, but if there were other solutions as you put it, why not pick a more original one, to seperate yourself from other games?
trying to say thats been copied is stretching it, the Bloat was probably a starting point though for the Boomer, but the final products are nothing alike.
I'm sure using the Bloat as a starting point for an enemy of your own can be classified as typical Benchmarking. They copied it, then tweaked it to make it different. Of course the final products wont be alike, because then people may begin sueing, or comparative arguments start to arise.
The games are nothing alike. They feature 'Zombies' under different names and various methods of killing them.
Games don't have to be alike to steal visual design. Though even the gameplay design is somewhat similar for some enemies in this case.
you can't take melee'ing from L4D and turn it into something doable in KF. It already has melee weapons, it'd be too huge a gameplay change.
You can, it'll just be all but pointless. At least there I hope we agree and if we do, it's good that we agree on the more relative point.
 
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Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
and a fat enemy that vomits, which according to the commantery, was originally going to be a screaming enemy, and they come up with it all by themselves? It's not hard to see that some elements were just taken from other gam-......well....Killing Floor mod.

Yes and KF took the Bloat idea from Blood by Monolith

YouTube - Monolith Blood: The Siege

The fat guy who pukes, walks slowly, and if you get close will try and hit you with his cleaver. (hes 15 seconds into the video)

I think when you look at the zombie genre there is only so much you can do with a human frame. You make it tall, short, missing limbs, burnt, mutilated, skinny, fat, etc...

So several games pick fat and well I guess puking would be a funny way to have a fat guy attack things. So I really don't think its exactly a "unique" idea by anyone's standards.

And while we're at it, oh hey that shotgun looks mighty familiar too (in the blood video) lol Though I think Monolith did it better as its actually pellets as opposed to pieces of flak.

But yeah I don't really think we can say many people have "unique" ideas in the horror FPS genre.
 
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Sammers

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 2, 2009
1,646
547
0
Scotland
I didn't call it unique, I'm merely pointing out that Killing Floor should be able to use ideas from Left 4 Dead, if Left 4 Dead is able to use ideas previously used in Killing Floor. I really don't care much for where the Bloat originated, only that it didn't originate from L4D, so why should people be questioning taking ideas from L4D? It makes no sense.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
I apologize I misread your original thoughts.

I agree that people should not be questioning taking ideas from Left For Dead.

I am all for the video games industry remaining somewhat open and people using ideas from each other.

If there is a good idea in one game then we might as well get it brought into future games. It would be silly to think that once a game has done something it can never be reproduced as we'd lose out on a lot of great ideas and gameplay elements.

Just as long as devs do not start trying to patent enemy or weapon designs I think we can all still breathe easy.
 

godisnowhere

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 12, 2009
4
0
0
Yeah! This game totally needs to be more like Halo...
Thanks for the insult, troll, and for the constructive input. If you don't have anything constructive to add don't post. Then we won't waste time reading your eloquent trolling, abusive comment. Puffs up that ego, don't it.
But one good insulting troll deserves another.
But since the mods allow any amount of trolling and other offensive behavior from senior members but no equivalent replies from the trolled and insulted new members this'll be tossed.
TWI, try to think how many people decide to not become part of the community because of abuse from these guys. Me and my friends always lurk the forums of games before deciding to buy a game. Disrespect from members mean that the forums will be useless to try to help improve games if you're ridiculed for trying to make the game and community better. Since this won't get posted and I'll get banned for trying to HELP your game become better and attract more players, I hope this will be useful for you to try to make a better environment for other members to try to help you keep a larger fan base happy and to have more members join. I really try to give helpful input to you guys because I like the game and want to help you make it better. But allowing immature senior members (nice oxymoron) to ridicule others and give NO useful input does not help your cause. I know I don't have much to offer, but let me offer it. In Halo, Crysis, L4D and others I, and my friends, love to smash zombies in the face with our current weapon. Not to be smashed in the face by some senior member with no imagination or useful input. I can't believe that no one on your dev/test team doesn't like to very satisfying pistol whipping of some stupid spec trying to eat their face. And even if so, there's no need to jump all over someone just for mentioning it. I try to be polite and supportive of other members of the other forums I visit. And provide what I think is useful feedback and helpful suggestions. These are fans of your game and you allow a certain higher class (but with no class) to stifle them. Many of my friends have bailed on kf for other games. Some for bugs, some for the a-holes who ruin the community. I've done s/w in a past live and no amount of disbelieving will make them go away. It is frustrating to enter a game with the wrong perk, the perk at the wrong level, to get hung because you enter at some particular point in the level change on the server, etc. Not being able to get out of a spectator mode that you never even entered on purpose. Having to exit and reenter to fix things. Sure it par for games, but that par is way too low in the first place. Bugs make people stop playing games and no amount of free content will make up for that. I really want kf to succeed and to have a long lifetime. Its gameplay and perk system give it a replayabilty beyond many games. Keep the mod community happy and you'll get things that help keep a game alive with things like good maps, mutators, skins, models, etc. The fact that perks max out mean that people can still have fun in games/maps/servers that do off-white things that don't allow perk advancement. So people can sandbox anyway they want. And that keeps people playing. Pea brains smashing people for trying to help YOUR game get better doesn't help. Even if it isn't a good idea it's a positive thing. No one's gonna say **** it, I don't want to be a part of this community because some wants something they love from another game put it yours. You know that games borrow stuff from other games, and that good ideas like your perk system can inspire other designers to make better games. Unlike supply side economics, large numbers of good games rises the tide for other games. You take ideas like zombies (which aren't in the game BTW) and then mix in creative ideas like the perk system and make a good game. In fact, you didn't even take the zombie idea, you came up with the cool idea of genetically engineered military killing machine gone amok. I don't know of any other game that has done that. The design of the machine is brilliant: mass produced (and cheaper to produce I'd imagine) to hold people in place, a smaller group of specs finish 'em off. Getting grabbed by weak clots while a siren (really should be a banshee, sirens sang so beautifully that no-one could resist them. Unless that's a very good ironic joke.) weaken you and set up a defense field so we can't take out the skrakes (oh how derivative to make a bunch of jasons) and flesh pounds finish you off shows very good and deep design. And then to allow people to call em zombies really hides your creativity. This is the best online game I've played, especially nice because there are so few co-op games out there. You're helping the growth of an game genre that I think has been neglected for a long time and seems to be appealing to the game buyers out there. And I thank you for that, but it will only allow other game makers to get my few dear gaming $$. Do you think that these little 13 year old mentalities are helping your game get better and attracting more players? Unless their posting pulls in more people then me and my group of online gaming buddies, they are a liability not an asset (well they are the first half of that) I see the little ****s dumping on suggestions all over the place, and other ****s replying to them. Then the other ****s go silent. Wonder why? Just like this little **** is going silent. I'm bagging the game, will see if I can gift it away (darn, a lost sale) and taking down my servers. This was the first game I ever decided to spend admin time and cycles on. No more. So continue to allow your little 13 yro fanboies the right to puff up their tiny little egos by crapping on people for trying to help YOUR game. Their desire to let you tickle their uvulae may be fun in the short term, but not for the long.
But look at some of the positive ideas ****s like me have tried to share and then gone silent after abuse by your senior members. If you use even one idea then your are hypocrites. Oh wait, I did see one senior member spewing bloat bile on the ideas of both the katana and AK47. And then you added these stupid derivative lame idiotic weapons for free. All of the crap dumped on the people who wanted these things is crap dumped on you. You are stupid derivative lame and idiotic game designers. And these are the guys you're supporting. Masochistic much? I had just been drawn much more enthusiastically into berserking because I could use the katana's speed and reach to take down specs (I respect the creativity of specs vs way overdone zombies) and with some skill not take damage. I'll miss taking my char to l5. And you let your l33t players force you to make things harder for everyone, and to crap on anyone who complains. You must realize the these douches are the outliers and that by definition average players are your largest market. I was playing on a server that was the only one my friends could all get good pings on. But it was beginner and too easy for us. So we did things like not using armour or only using pistols. It is trivial for the l33ts to make a game harder, not for averages to make it easier to be a fun challenge vs an overwhelming one. I'm sure you only read the first 1/2 words since you seem incapable of taking any criticism at all, not even constructive. I would love to be a game designer myself, and the only reason I've blathered on so much is that creative games are very rare beasts and I'd like to see makers like you do well. But, since I'm stupid and like things that are in halo and katanas and ak47 I'm obviously a stupid worthless ex-member of your gaming community. Do you really think and of your unsupportive and dick head little baby seniors respect your game as much as I did? And to try to offer as much help as possible to help improve your game and keep it around longer? Consider that as you ban me. Sure, I'm just one dick-head with a few friends who are defecting to l4d. Who cares. But it's common marketing knowledge that one letter represents many others who feel that the same but don't bother to write. Well, I've puffed up my 13 yro mentality stuck in a 40+ yro body. So farewell to you and you to my DLC $ and the $ spent by people who I'd turn on to your game (there's been a few to date) and their friends, etc. So, again, as you ban me and others like me, think about what you're losing vs the people who think katanas and ak47s are stupid and unimaginative and that they think that you are too by doing them. I'm sure you're near puking from laughing so hard at some idiot who thinks you'd care about what he has to say. Fine. I'll be happy getting my zombie fix from l4d and spending my gaming $$ on other games. And that's money out of your pocket.
Good bye good luck.


Someone with any imagination at all should be able to see the usefulness of a nice melee attack with knock back.
How stupid to be able to kill off some clots with a butt strike with no weapon change animation and then go thru a reload in relative peace. Switching to a knife is stupid since you go thru the animation to get there and another to get your weapon other weapon back. How foolish of me to want to brush off come clots w/o wasting ammo or wasting time switching weapons before some other bigger specs come to munch me. And boy, would I be stupid to have more melee weapons in my inventory with no wt penalty.
Unless you're not good enough to play w FF, you can knock back something on a TEAMmate and then shoot it w/o harming your teammate. If FF is off, you can do something really skillful like tossing a grenade.

Oh, but no, halo has grenades so we will throw 'em out of the game. And your pistol, AR and shottie. Oh pooh, Serious Sam has a double barrel... out out vile spot. I'm sure there's a katana or some other sword in some game cube game...

So, troll, let's make kf unique and non derivative:
Can't see our FP weapon... ooo How doom.
Jumping! Not in doom, but alas, it's sooooo halo.
Can't have a pistol, shotgun, chainsaw, no running, looking around. That's in doom, halo and one or two others. Pshaw! Thet that 3d perspektive thing is so halo, doom, quake, sin, l4d, pizza delivery boy. 2d is in pong. 1d would be boring, but isn't in halo.
Killing other creatures, nope.
Hey, didn't halo have zombie like things that tried to kill ya?
Boy, if I was TWI I wouldn't appreciate your insults about their lack of creativity.
 

Oldih

Glorious IS-2 Comrade
Nov 22, 2005
3,414
412
0
Finland
I wouldn't be against an idea to be able to buy extra accessory for certain weapons, E.G. bayonet for AK47 and using the secondary fire would result into a stab rather than switching firing mode.