Medic Perk: 30% less recoil *ALL WEAPONS*

[_Duke_]

Well, if you have a more precise shooting zone you don't need to concentrate as much on aiming, which means you can shoot faster, which is essentially what is meant by spamming. Put another way, if the MP7 had zero recoil, you could point at a specimen's head, hold the trigger for two seconds, and deal the entire clip in headshot damage. That is impossible with the current recoil on the weapon, as anything besides burst-fire will pull you off-target.

Uhh, NO, I'm not talking about removing all recoil, jackass. I'm talking about 30% reduction, Sharpshooter gets 75% and Commando 40%. It's not that much. And if I get more headshots, Zed dies faster so I shoot less. Shooting less =/= spam

Weapons like grenade launcher encourage spamming, not this.

Each perk has a role that is essentially defined by the weapons used.

Moreover, based on your suggestion the Berserker perk qualifies for the same recoil reduction, for the same reason as the Medic - It doesn't have bonuses for ranged weapons...

Medic's role was pretty clear even before he had a weapon, so your logic fails. And no, I didn't say Medic lacked ranged weapon boost, I said it lacked any weapon boost. Berserker has melee damage boost, +100% to be exact. And 25% faster melee attacks. Berserker is fine.

It's the other classes use of Katana and Crossbow that's not fine: they need to be nerfed for everything except Zerker/Sharpshooter (respectively). The current state of affairs shouldn't prohibit giving the other perks positive changes.

 

[_Duke_]

the medic needs another perk specific weapon....time to shamelessly promote my suggestion for giving the medic the bullpup and adding the L85/SA80 back into the game for the commando

i don't like the 30% less recoil to all weapons, mostly because i personally do not believe that perks should be using/abusing non-perk weapons. case in point the level6 medic who lets his team die because he's not doing his job as effectively as he should be....why? cause he knows he can use two non-perk weapons (katana/crossbow) and kite the remaining zeds and still survive.

adding a bonus to further encourage the use of non-perk weapons would result in more medics not doing their job.

My suggestion can be done without creating a new weapon, and other people are saying medic should be doing nothing but heal, so they'd be against a new medic weapon.

Your story just goes back to katana/crossbow needing to be nerfed. And certain players will always run off to save themselves, they'll just find another way to do it. That shouldn't be a reason you are against my suggestion.

Medics only have a "job" to do if people are hurt; that doesn't mean they should be forced to twiddle their thumbs the rest of the time, or resign to always having to use the same weapon!

 

[Uk1t4k3]

You fail to realise that adding recoil reduction is a buff? If u think recoil reduction can be added to just any perk why didn't the developer do so? Dude u just don't understand how to play as medic and keep thinking i want universal recoil reduction because i want to use other weapons as medic. If u like using medic just use it the way it's intended otherwise don't use it just because u want to use doesn't mean the whole community will agree. In fact your idea encourage people to neglect the role of a real medic.

 

[_Duke_]

You fail to realise that adding recoil reduction is a buff? If u think recoil reduction can be added to just any perk why didn't the developer do so? Dude u just don't understand how to play as medic and keep thinking i want universal recoil reduction because i want to use other weapons as medic. If u like using medic just use it the way it's intended otherwise don't use it just because u want to use doesn't mean the whole community will agree. In fact your idea encourage people to neglect the role of a real medic.

And if katana/crossbow are ever nerfed, which they should be, then suddenly the medic is in need of a 'buff'.

And where the hell do you get off assuming I don't know how to play medic?
I've had the game since it's original retail release and Medic was my most played class until I capped it.
I play other perks now (all level 6), but still do a better job healing teammates than most medics I see.

'YOU FAIL TO REALIZE', I already said I'd be fine with reductions to their other bonuses if need be:

I want to have some sort of a boost related to offensive efficiency as a Medic, and this wouldn't require a new weapon to do it.

I'd take a small nerf to his other bonuses if need-be.

So my POINT stands. I'M.NOT.TALKING.ABOUT.BUFFING.MEDIC.

 

[CandleJack]

"i believe sharpshooter needs some spamming proficiency, he's too much focused on pecision shooting as it is. i'll even take a nerf to his bonuses if need be"

"i believe support specialists need a long-range weapon. A skilled player could take advantage of the extra range with close-range as well"

Do you believe this too?

You'd have to, to be consistent with your agument.


The only thing even close to an offencive boost that wouldn't be OP would be a slight reload increase with the MP7.
The MP7 does measly damage and this would help with the Reload of Death.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

So you want to nerf some of the medic's current bonuses in order to gain universal recoil so that you can handle other weapons with better efficiency and for that reason i disagree. I'm in not trying to act as an idiot trying to convince the KF community to only use katana+crossbow build and the reason i keep emphasise on that particular build is due to the fact it is great at countering medic's flaw of lacking firepower.

 

[Vaecrius]

The medic is already the strongest perk in the game. I doubt it needs more advantages.

THIS.

It's almost like the point of the OP is to bring the medic up from "slightly but tolerably overpowered" to "obscenely wtf overpowered" so the TWI guys would finally nerf the perk...

EDIT: Actually I'm going to disown this above comment. Forgot about support at higher levels.

More than EBR spamming lvl6 sharp? Don't think so

The sharpie will top the list and easily make four figures a wave, but when a well-placed siren sends the plan tits up and there's one guy left to make or break a late wave, my money's on that guy being the med.

Now if u tell me why he doesn't need any offensive bonus it's because the greatest offense = defense

The ancient Roman legionnaire's most powerful weapons were his shield and armour, he could go into any fight with those and the itty bitty ****ty baby sword they gave him was just to help seal the deal. That's how I tend to think of the medic in game terms.

So no, I don't think the med needs an "offensive" boost. :IS2:

 

[_Duke_]

"i believe sharpshooter needs some spamming proficiency, he's too much focused on pecision shooting as it is. i'll even take a nerf to his bonuses if need be"

"i believe support specialists need a long-range weapon. A skilled player could take advantage of the extra range with close-range as well"

Do you believe this too?

You'd have to, to be consistent with your argument.

Just because I said I'd be willing to diversify the other perks doesn't mean I'd erase all their weak points. Support is plenty diverse already because of his carrying capacity: it lets him combine a lot of different weapons, more than anyone else.

The most I'd do for Support is put more things to weld in the game besides doors; but even that'd be more to keep things interesting than buff them.

And Sharpshooter already can spam. It's called the M14EBR.

 

[CandleJack]

And Sharpshooter already can spam. It's called the M14EBR.

That is beside the point.

The point was, if you're willing to partway erase one of the drawbacks of choosing medic ( no offencive skills) then you've got to be all in, and erase all perk's weaknesses.

Imagine the Sharpshooter example was set prior to Sharpshooter going down the toilet.

 

[_Duke_]

if you're willing to partway erase one of the drawbacks of choosing medic ( no offencive skills) then you've got to be all in, and erase all perk's weaknesses.

.......

if you're willing to partway ... then you've got to be all in.

Uhh, no. 'Partway erase one' drawback =/= erase all weaknesses

If you give Firebug a boost to Fire Axe he's still gonna suck vs Fleshpounds and Scrakes.
(if they could even carry both axe & flamethrower)

If you give Berserker a mid-range throwing weapon, he's still gonna suck vs groups of Crawlers and distant Husks.

If you give Support longer flashlight batteries, they're still gonna suck at long range.

If you give Commando a boost to Machete, he's still gonna suck vs Scrakes and Fleshpounds.

more diversity =/= zero weaknesses

-------------------------------------

To even make use of my suggestion, the Medic would be forgoing using the very powerful Katana and Crossbow.
Maybe it makes them the most versatile perk, maybe it doesn't, or versatility was their 'thing' to begin with so it fits.

 

[Selnath]

Uhh, NO, I'm not talking about removing all recoil, jackass. I'm talking about 30% reduction, Sharpshooter gets 75% and Commando 40%. It's not that much. And if I get more headshots, Zed dies faster so I shoot less. Shooting less =/= spam

Nor am I; The zero recoil example was meant to demonstrate how increased precision leads to faster bullet usage (spamming). The point of killing things faster (via more headshots) is to kill other things immediately afterward. Spamming typically involves target switching immediately when you kill a zed, so if you kill one faster you kill many faster, which is again essentially what spamming is. Put another way, shooting less at *one* zed just to shoot more at others isn't related to whether or not you're spamming; It's the time you spend aiming and the concentration required to make the mark.

Medic's role was pretty clear even before he had a weapon, so your logic fails. And no, I didn't say Medic lacked ranged weapon boost, I said it lacked any weapon boost. Berserker has melee damage boost, +100% to be exact. And 25% faster melee attacks. Berserker is fine.

My apologies, I used the term 'weapon' broadly such that it included welding tools and the medical syringe. To be completely correct I would have to say the perk determines how you play the game, but frankly your weapons (read: gear you use) are inextricably combined with their perks. The Medic lacking 'any' weapon bonuses and lacking 'ranged' weapon bonuses is effectively the same statement. The notion of ranged weapons simply makes it more sensible to compare the Medic and Berserker.

It's the other classes use of Katana and Crossbow that's not fine: they need to be nerfed for everything except Zerker/Sharpshooter (respectively).

Frankly I think this is what you're actually thinking that this change will accomplish; Reducing Medic use of the katana and crossbow. You have to understand that decreasing the incentive to use something is not the same as increasing the incentive to use something else. That said, I think everyone (yes, everyone) will agree with you that the katana and crossbow are (ab)used by perks that they were not designed for, the only caveat is you have to work with the notion of reducing that usage, and not increasing alternative usage.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Hold on Duke dude, we're not saying the idea is just stupid, I think the point everyone is trying to say is alot of us play medic (personally its my favourite class) and we hardly ever find recoil an issue as a medic. I tend to take a handcannon or an AK myself and have never found recoil a problem. So this would be a rather pointless addition.

The other point we are making is simply that even if the medic did have a problem with recoil, the point of the class is to be support for his team, nothing more. The medic doesn't need a recoil reduction because his ultimate job isn't to shoot specimens, therefore once again it serves no use to the perk.

This might sound a little like philosophical bull****, but when I play medic I like the fact I have 0 weapon boosts, cause it feels more pure. To put it into context, beating a Scrake with an Axe when you have no additional damage or swing speed feels like a much bigger achievement than just pwning one as a Zerker.

All I would like as a medic is a weapon I can pick instead of the Mp7M. I like to fire 1 or 2 bullets when I'm popping heads, and the Mp7M just fires too damned fast for me to pop individual shots. I liked bswearers idea for the bullpup... even though I hate that gun, and I liked the Mp5 idea, but as long as it was a solid reliable weapon that I can 1 bullet with, I'm happy

Keep thinking and suggesting dude, its not a bad idea, but it's just not necessary. Better luck with the next one

 

[Vaecrius]

Duke, it occurs to me that your idea would probably have gotten a better reception if you'd picked a less versatile and powerful perk, and focussed on ameliorating the suckage at lower levels. (really, all the perks are very powerful at higher levels, though berserker I think is struggling under the shadow of the medic.)

And it occurs to me that the medic already has a considerable recoil amelioration built-in - you get the lowest-recoil weapon in the game at a massive discount and with a much bigger mag.

 

[_Duke_]

alot of us play medic and... I tend to take a handcannon or an AK myself and have never found recoil a problem. So this would be a rather pointless addition.

All I would like as a medic is a weapon I can pick instead of the Mp7M.

Is bloat bile so much a 'problem' that Medic needs that reduced? Medic already has great armor.
How often are Medics really getting hit it?? That seems pointless to me, so I guess we should remove it!

And what you call a "pointless addition" other people are calling an overpowered buff that will take medic Over 9000.
One faction saying it's pointless and another saying it's overpowering is absurd. OMG, maybe it's somewhere in-between!

You said you always carry a HC or AK so that's something other MP7... but if you mean a brand new medic weapon then how is that any different than what I'm after, other than potentially being more powerful, or more complicated? Lots of people here already are saying medic should do nothing more than be a heal-slave, so I seriously doubt those people would support a new medic weapon.

Unless you mean yet another way to heal people. Now THAT would be a "pointless addition".

 

[_Duke_]

Duke, it occurs to me that your idea would probably have gotten a better reception if you'd picked a less versatile and powerful perk, and focussed on ameliorating the suckage at lower levels. (really, all the perks are very powerful at higher levels, though berserker I think is struggling under the shadow of the medic.)

And it occurs to me that the medic already has a considerable recoil amelioration built-in - you get the lowest-recoil weapon in the game at a massive discount and with a much bigger mag.

Basically, I'm under the impression that no suggestions to Medic are welcome until Katana and Crossbow are nerfed.
M14EBR needs balancing too but I don't see many medics using it, so that's sidetracking a bit.

Also, I sense a strong contention from users to anyone's idea that is not their own, and I'm not just talking about my threads.
It's that or 'omg this has already been suggested a thousand times! Begone, foul beast!!' That's all I'm reading on this board.

--------------------------------------------

Wait, you think the MP7 has the lowest recoil?! More like the highest. Sure, it's ok in bursts, but that doesn't change the fact that its recoil is all over the place. MP7 or full-auto SCAR, not sure which, but I can't believe you think MP7 is low-recoil.

 

[Nubbers]

You said you always carry a HC or AK so that's something other MP7... but if you mean a brand new medic weapon then how is that any different than what I'm after, other than potentially being more powerful, or more complicated? Lots of people here already are saying medic should do nothing more than be a heal-slave, so I seriously doubt those people would support a new medic weapon.

In my opinion, the greatest teams are the ones that realize their perk strengths, and play to them. The medic's is an ability to heal while taking massive amounts of damage, quickly moving from teammate to teammate. The lack of an offensive disposition is more than an adequate indication that the medic is a healer first and a killer second. Likewise, a commando is a killer first and a healer second. Nothing chaps me more than a commando that flips out his syringe to heal himself of 10 hitpoints when he should be killing a barrage of incoming zeds. That's why I, as a medic, am standing right behind you.

Heal-slave is a misrepresentation of what "lots of people" are saying; my previous paragraph explains that. However, a medic that doesn't heal is a bit like a support specialist that carries a katana, a shotgun and an MP7 for the sake of utilizing your weight capacity without being redundant: it can be done, but at what cost to effectiveness?

Morphing a medic into a killer and healer first blurs the lines between perk delineation, which ultimately mitigates the need for unique perks at all. And so long as people are hell-bent on getting the most kills, the push to coalesce perks will continue.

 

[Selnath]

Morphing a medic into a killer and healer first blurs the lines between perk delineation, which ultimately mitigates the need for unique perks at all.

I must admit I think you have summed the explanation quite succinctly with this statement. It isn't about being *just* a healer, it's about -focusing- on healing. Maybe the Medic needs a new utility gun (RE: Medic Gun discussion thread), but it doesn't need an offensive perk bonus. Maintaining 'versatility' in gameplay is not the function of the perk system, but rather it is to specialize your gameplay. The fact that the Medic lacks a well-defined loadout is not related to the perk, but rather the available equipment.

 

[_Duke_]

Morphing a medic into a killer and healer first blurs the lines between perk delineation, which ultimately mitigates the need for unique perks at all. And so long as people are hell-bent on getting the most kills, the push to coalesce perks will continue.

.... medic already IS a killer & healer.

I'm just trying to give him some goddamn variety, but all of you are too damn thick-headed TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS.

I'm talking about 30.god.damn.percent recoil reduction. That's less than Commando reduction, and not even half of what Sharpshooter's 75%. There's no damage boost involved. It doesn't help the katana or crossbow, it only gives incentive to stop using them.

 

[Nubbers]

.... medic already IS a killer & healer.

No, people try to play it like a killer and healer.

I'm just trying to give him some goddamn variety, but all of you are too damn thick-headed TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS.

That's my point. If you want variety, you change perks. 'Variety' equates to blending perks. They are separate for a reason.

I'm talking about 30.god.damn.percent recoil reduction. That's less than Commando reduction, and not even half of what Sharpshooter's 75%. There's no damage boost involved. It doesn't help the katana or crossbow, it only gives incentive to stop using them.

You are right, there is no damage boost involved. However, recoil reduction lends itself to a greater proficiency with weapons, which suddenly blends the medic with the commando/sharpshooter. Your predisposition towards making the healer a better killer leads me to believe that, instead of getting better at those perks, you'd rather use the speed and armor boost as a crutch.

So I will repeat myself: the medic is a healer. His perk bonuses lend themselves to being a better healer. Focusing on killing above healing should be an overall detriment to the team in accordance with this game's team-based mechanics, because there are other perks far more capable of killing.

 

[Selnath]

.... medic already IS a killer & healer.

I'm just trying to give him some goddamn variety, but all of you are too damn thick-headed TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS.

I'm talking about 30.god.damn.percent recoil reduction. That's less than Commando reduction, and not even half of what Sharpshooter's 75%. There's no damage boost involved. It doesn't help the katana or crossbow, it only gives incentive to stop using them.

It's quite apparent that you either aren't reading or aren't understanding anything I have said, because I have adequately addressed all four of the points you used in this post. Furthermore, you aren't using anything substantial to back your position, nor to disprove anyone else's. Discussion is about listening to your opposition, whether to refute their argument or to decide to agree, and providing poorly supported input into a discussion doesn't help anything. As an aside, the fact that you have not changed your stance since defining it, despite substantial input from multiple sources - none of which you have refuted - suggests that you should reconsider which of the group here is 'thick-headed'.