Medic Perk: 30% less recoil *ALL WEAPONS*

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_Duke_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2010
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Medic Perk: 30% less recoil *ALL WEAPONS*
Why? Because:

"Medics have steady hands!" :D

--------------------------------------------

Why 30%? Because Commandos only get 40% less recoil and I don't want Medics doing a better job with another perk's own weapons, even if the damage is less.

So, in a way, it makes sense.

In the terms of balance, Medic still doesn't have any damage boost, but a skilled player could make good use of the universal recoil reduction.

(The 30% less recoil is only after you reach level 5 or 6 medic, it would slowly increase like everything else)
 

Undedd Jester

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2009
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I would say unneeded tbh, medic gets plenty of boosts. As is he gets a boost to: -
- speed
- armour damage reduction
- armour durability
- healing potency
- healing recharge
- bloat bile resistance
- Mp7M ammo

All of these make him very durable and reliable. TBH I rather like the fact the medic has no weapon boost at all since firstly it encourages him to do his job rather than go rambo all the time and secondly I just like trying to get by on basic weapon ammo, damage, recoil and reload for the challenge.

I see why you posted it, but I feel it would take away from the Medic perk rather than add to it :)
 

timur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Medic Perk: 30% less recoil *ALL WEAPONS*
Why? Because:

"Medics have steady hands!" :D

--------------------------------------------

Why 30%? Because Commandos only get 40% less recoil and I don't want Medics doing a better job with another perk's own weapons, even if the damage is less.

So, in a way, it makes sense.

In the terms of balance, Medic still doesn't have any damage boost, but a skilled player could make good use of the universal recoil reduction.

(The 30% less recoil is only after you reach level 5 or 6 medic, it would slowly increase like everything else)

Yes, exceot it seems kinda unnessecary and pointless, i regret to say. It would only effect 1 gun, and the medic already has loads of bonuses as it is. The medic is a nice perk as it is, it just needs new weapons.

Its a good idea, but a tad unnessecary, don't ya think?
 
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_Duke_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2010
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Yes, exceot it seems kinda unnessecary and pointless, i regret to say. It would only effect 1 gun, and the medic already has loads of bonuses as it is. The medic is a nice perk as it is, it just needs new weapons.

Its a good idea, but a tad unnessecary, don't ya think?

If medic gets a new gun it might be unnecessary, but until then I say it is necessary. And what do you meant it'd affect only 1 gun? I'm talking about Medic getting 30% less recoil to every gun in the whole game.

I would say unneeded tbh, medic gets plenty of boosts.
...I feel it would take away from the Medic perk rather than add to it :)
It's not about "omg Medic needs a buff", it's about Medic not having any sort of offensive boost, unless you count run speed.
I want to have some sort of a boost related to offensive efficiency as a Medic, and this wouldn't require a new weapon to do it.

I'd take a small nerf to his other bonuses if need-be.
 
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WhiteTigerShiro

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 25, 2010
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It's not about "omg Medic needs a buff", it's about Medic not having any sort of offensive boost, unless you count run speed.
I want to have some sort of a boost related to offensive efficiency as a Medic, and this wouldn't require a new weapon to do it.

I'd take a small nerf to his other bonuses if need-be.
If you want an offensive boost, there are 6 other perks for you to pick from. Medic is about giving-up firepower to help the rest of the squad be able to deal-out more firepower. As a medic, your offensive boost is that Frank over there didn't die when he otherwise would have, so he's still able to contribute.
 

_Duke_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2010
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If you want an offensive boost, there are 6 other perks for you to pick from. Medic is about giving-up firepower to help the rest of the squad be able to deal-out more firepower. As a medic, your offensive boost is that Frank over there didn't die when he otherwise would have, so he's still able to contribute.

Less recoil =/= firepower; and Medic still has plenty of firepower using the Xbow, so what are they really giving up?!
This is more about giving incentive to use something other than crossbow.

OMG I'M MESSIN' WITH UR KF, I MUST BE CRUCIFIED!
 
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WhiteTigerShiro

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 25, 2010
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Less recoil =/= firepower
Not directly, but shots missed due to recoil is damage lost. Getting that damage back from a more controlled weapon is more firepower by wasting fewer bullets, and by letting you unload a few more bullets per burst before having to steady the weapon again.
 
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Selnath

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 5, 2010
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TL;DR:

The Medic isn't offensive in nature, nor does it distinctly lack minimal combat effectiveness, so it therefore requires no offensive perk bonuses.



I'm afraid I have to agree with WhiteTigerShiro. Essentially the support for offensive Medic bonuses is one of two kinds; The first is that the Medic does not meet some minimal amount of offensive capability compared to the other perks, and the other is that the Medic lacks offensive capability in general.

For the first argument, you have to consider that everyone has a 9 mm and a knife, which is (or so I would argue) the definition of a minimum required offensive capability. You could say that not being able to kill a pack of X zeds was a better standard, but this leads to highly situational comparisons between the performance of the different perks.

Alternatively you could argue that with endgame loadouts (i.e. having everything you want, money not being an issue) there is a different standard than the 9 mm, but to do so means neglecting the point of perks; Specializations (i.e. effective combat range, crowd control, damage output), which make the real difference when everyone has their respective loadout.

This leads to the easy refute of the latter argument of the Medic lacking general offensive capability; Namely that the Medic is not offensive in nature. While you could argue that this isn't fair (i.e. overspecialized), you would be arguing against the intention of the Medic perk, and not for some specific benefit.
 

Uk1t4k3

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2009
454
88
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Singapore
Sorry but i don't feel that the medics need any universal recoil reduction. The medic can heal himself and heal others with his healing dart. He can also take down specimens from clots to scrakes using katana and still manage to kill FP with a few shots of crossbow bolts. Even if he misses he still have his 'nearly impenetrable defense vest' which could let him take up to 4 hits from enraged suicidal FP. Now if u tell me why he doesn't need any offensive bonus it's because the greatest offense = defense
 
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_Duke_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2010
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The medic can heal himself and heal others with his healing dart. He can also take down specimens from clots to scrakes using katana and still manage to kill FP with a few shots of crossbow bolts.

...that's more an argument for nerfing katana and crossbow than anything else.

Pretty much everyone assumes the Medic will use Katana and Crossbow. The reduced recoil helps neither of those.
It would only serve to encourage Medic to use other weapons without actually raising his base damage.

Tell me, what is so wrong with that?!
 
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Uk1t4k3

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2009
454
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Singapore
...that's more an argument for nerfing katana and crossbow than anything else.

Pretty much everyone assumes the Medic will use Katana and Crossbow. The reduced recoil helps neither of those.
It would only serve to encourage Medic to use other weapons without actually raising his base damage.

Tell me, what is so wrong with that?!

Most medics will use katana+crossbow or katana+LAR unless healing squad is the priority (swap to MP7+katana). Now if u were to encourage medics to use other weapons because of the recoil bonuses it would encourage them to spam their weapons doesn't it?
 

_Duke_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2010
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Now if u were to encourage medics to use other weapons because of the recoil bonuses it would encourage them to spam their weapons doesn't it?

....run that logic by me one more time, Chief? How the hell does improving precision encourage spamming?
 
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Uk1t4k3

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 21, 2009
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Singapore
....run that logic by me one more time, Chief? How the hell does improving precision encourage spamming?

Speaking of precision and accuracy that is for sharpshooter. Medic is the polar opposite of that and thus giving medic the luxury of universal recoil will cause medic to become too versatile. Since the standard task for medic is to provide healing, picking off specimens is mostly for the other perks. Although medic seem to have nothing for offenses, wielding katana and crossbow effectively cover the perk's low offense flaw and that alone is enough to prove that medic is already very strong.
 
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Selnath

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 5, 2010
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....run that logic by me one more time, Chief? How the hell does improving precision encourage spamming?
Well, if you have a more precise shooting zone you don't need to concentrate as much on aiming, which means you can shoot faster, which is essentially what is meant by spamming. Put another way, if the MP7 had zero recoil, you could point at a specimen's head, hold the trigger for two seconds, and deal the entire clip in headshot damage. That is impossible with the current recoil on the weapon, as anything besides burst-fire will pull you off-target.

It would only serve to encourage Medic to use other weapons without actually raising his base damage.

Tell me, what is so wrong with that?!
Well, it isn't how the perk system is designed. Each perk has a role that is essentially defined by the weapons used. The Medic and the Berserker are unique in that their perk-based weapons do not weigh enough to restrict most of the other weapons in the game. While this could be considered a balance flaw in that regard, it is still reasonable to say that the Berserker is meant to melee and the Medic is meant to heal.

Moreover, based on your suggestion the Berserker perk qualifies for the same recoil reduction, for the same reason as the Medic - It doesn't have bonuses for ranged weapons, but has room for them. Sure it encourages use of weapons besides the crossbow, but encouraging anything besides melee fighting and healing (respectively) isn't what the system is meant to do. If anything, I think TWI should consider doing something to add weight to the Medic/Berserker, probably best done with a new ranged weapon for the Berserker and an auxiliary healing/support weapon for the Medic.
 

_Duke_

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2010
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Speaking of precision and accuracy that is for sharpshooter.
...wielding katana and crossbow effectively cover (medic's) low offense flaw and that alone is enough to prove that medic is already very strong.

Commando gets recoil reduction too, so it's not 'just a Sharpshooter thing'. I never said medic wasn't strong;
THIS ISN'T ABOUT 'BUFFING MEDIC, it's about diversifying.

And quit humping the OMG I LOVE KATANA-CROSSBOW TRAIN so much.

What is wrong with diversity? Sharpshooter is arguably the powerful and most diverse class (Handcannon, LAR, Xbow, EBR), so you **** a brick if I try to add some diversity to another perk? I'm not against giving more diveristy to the other perks, but this thread is about Medic and recoil reduction. I'm trying real hard not to sidetrack, but all you go on about is how AWESOME crossbow and katana are, as if we didn't know.
 
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-[SiN]-bswearer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2008
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If medic gets a new gun it might be unnecessary, but until then I say it is necessary. And what do you meant it'd affect only 1 gun? I'm talking about Medic getting 30% less recoil to every gun in the whole game.

see that's the real point.....the medic needs another perk specific weapon....time to shamelessly promote my suggestion for giving the medic the bullpup and adding the L85/SA80 back into the game for the commando :eek::)

i don't like the 30% less recoil to all weapons, mostly because i personally do not believe that perks should be using/abusing non-perk weapons. case in point the level6 medic who lets his team die because he's not doing his job as effectively as he should be....why? cause he knows he can use two non-perk weapons (katana/crossbow) and kite the remaining zeds and still survive due to his bonuses:

- increased speed
- armour damage reduction
- armour durability
- healing potency
- healing recharge
- bloat bile resistance

adding a bonus to further encourage the use of non-perk weapons would result in more medics not doing their job.