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Maybe Survivalist doesn't need a complete re-work?

infntnub

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Sep 25, 2012
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Jack of all trades, but master of none

The more time goes on, I am beginning to question if a rework for Survivalist is truly necessary.
Do the majority of the players seem to dislike the perk? It seems like most do.
I think it's worth asking players to remember what the perk is intended to be.
It is a highly survivable perk, which holds true to its name. The armor bonuses may not look like much of a benefit on paper but this is the only perk I make it a point to always have armor for later waves. Taking zero damage while having it is very nice, albeit temporary, as it depletes quickly. (especially if you run into a Bloat, or 2)

In relation to survivability, the medic nades almost become a "must pick" with your level 15 skill choices, as they will constantly get you (or your teammates) out of tight situations. The same can be said for the added speed bonus of the melee choice skill at level 10.

The lesser global damage bonus of 15% prevents it from matching any of the pure perks outright in one specific damage type, but in exchange you receive a bonus in EVERY weapon in the game.

I think this point cannot be stressed enough that you have a damage bonus to any weapon. This is the only perk that can say that. Does it make up for a 10% decrease in damage? Not for moments that require spike damage, no. Overall though, this is a very underrated element to the perk.

Let's be honest, if you don't really care for much diversity in your loadouts, this type of perk will never be something you find terribly appealing.

If you want to blow a bunch of things up (constantly), you're going to play Demo. If you want to take out chunks of trash zeds with a single shot, you're going to play Support. The list goes on and on.

So where does this leave the Survivalist, you may ask? I believe there is a gray area out there amongst the player population of people who don't really "love" any particular perk. These were the guys who would always run something off-perk in their loadouts even prior to the perk's existence (I'm also thinking of KF1 and people who always tried to include an M79 or xbow in their loadouts).

If you love being able to contribute and adapt on the fly to any situation, the perk is pretty solid in its current state. There will always be the players who look at the global damage bonus and scott at it, leading them to call the perk trash. I completely understand the logic behind it, but overall I find no real weakness to the perk. It's never a "great" choice, but I also don't believe it's ever a "bad" choice to add to your team composition.
 

Vapid

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Mar 26, 2012
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But wouldn't you prefer it was a unique perk with (ideally? potentially?) some unique weapons?
 

infntnub

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Vapid;n2326090 said:
But wouldn't you prefer it was a unique perk with (ideally? potentially?) some unique weapons?
Personally, I enjoy the mash-up of skills it has, being able to utilize a combination of weapons from other perks. i really didn't expect it to have its own, unique arsenal when it was announced.

I mean, the freezethrower is great fun, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Z.E.D. (or v2) to make a return at some point. Other than that it doesn't really bother me since I enjoy mixing up the guns from the other classes and still have a damage bonus (albeit reduced) on all of them.

A lot of times I play portions of waves as a zerker, a demo/mando, and a sharpie. Between using my knife, my m16, and my railgun.

Meanwhile I maintain a speed buff, and the utility to self heal (plus cause random explosions to large groups of trash) with medic nades.

I just see a lot of utility with the perk in its current state and am hopeful TWI doesn't completely scrap it and come out with an entirely new skill tree.
 
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Aleflippy

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Sep 18, 2012
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I'd say he definitely does. I've come to accept the idea of the perk, and truth be told, I had some fun mixing weird loadouts and trying new combos. I also believe it is FUNCTIONAL.

However, it's skill trees are an absolute mess. Either his options are strangely divided (why make you choose which gun you want a quicker reload for if he's a jack-of-all-trades??) , or terribly unbalanced (an extra 25% explosive splash or the capacity to create explosions with any weapon? Some faster melee attacks which you can use with only a single type of weapon, or extra healing which is a blessing no matter the loadout? ) . I know a few other perks have the issue of unbalanced options, but they are never as obvious as with the survivalist.


Plus, it still feels like a lazy perk.

And yes, it still feels frustrating to have THAT as the tenth perk... I still want the martial artist
 

infntnub

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Aleflippy;n2326107 said:
However, it's skill trees are an absolute mess. Either his options are strangely divided (why make you choose which gun you want a quicker reload for if he's a jack-of-all-trades??) ,

Plus, it still feels like a lazy perk.
I tried to stay away from suggested fixes/changes in what I wrote since a few board members beat that into the ground pretty well in other topics (myself included lol).

Global reload speed increase for all perks is something most of the separate topics have in common and I agree. I'd like to see that split go away, and that's fine. I'm just trying to convey I do no think a complete re-work is needed. A tweak here or there could be sufficient if done properly.

And yes, it was a lazy perk to begin with lol. :)
 

Pavlov's Dog

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Apr 30, 2015
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Just adding my two cents since everyone has an opinion on Survivalist: I initially disliked the perk. Now I like the perk for one specific reason: It can serve as a handy all-arounder in sloppy public games.

I'll agree with most other players in that generally I am better off playing a traditional perk that is specialized in one area (i.e., has more effective bonuses more narrowly tailored to its weapon set/play style). The Survivalist's scattershot approach to stat boosts and abilities usually cannot compete against the purpose-driven effectiveness of other classes. A survivalist cannot clear trash as well as a firebug or kill Scrakes as well as a sharpshooter, for example.

However, the Survivalist's little-bit-of-everything design has proven very useful when I play with bad pub match teams. I can pick the healing perk, buy a medic rifle, and keep my retarded teammates alive. I can pair that with a railgun, RPG, or AMR and help my team fight off the big zeds (which they also inevitably struggle to kill in these situations). If I take the railgun and use ammo carefully, I can hit the big zeds and kill off the decisive medium zeds (husk, siren, bloat) if I need to. Then I can heal my level 5 commando teammate using a boomstick who is wondering why all his health is gone after the husk hit him with a wall of fire.

Would it be cool to have some other purpose-driven perk instead of Survivalist? Yes. Would it be interesting to see the Survivalist reworked? Probably. But I get a lot of positive use from Survivalist when my team needs a healer/big zed killer/all-arounder. There's a lot of satisfaction in carrying a team with healing and big zed killing when, by rights, we should have lost the match.
 

infntnub

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Pavlov's Dog;n2326142 said:
However, the Survivalist's little-bit-of-everything design has proven very useful when I play with bad pub match teams.
This is probably where a lot of the appeal comes for me, as well.

I don't have many friends who like KF2 so I tend to play with random people who do not use voicechat, or communicate in general.

Survivalist can really shine when a team isn't coordinated at all, and just fill in the gaps that become apparent as waves progress.
 
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infntnub

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NokiaSE;n2326270 said:
boo!


... just skip to the survivalist part
Thanks.

Yes, you were one of several with very detailed re-works.

I'm not sure it needs that much re-design. Your ideas were some of the more original though. :)

Although you were one of the others who also agreed about coming the reload into a universal option instead of the split, which I agree is a must.
 

callumg1988

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Nov 27, 2010
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Just a thought I'm curious if anyone has tested this (i intend to soon). My load out has been DBS and nade launcher with med pistol, and med nades. Been loving that combo but I'm wondering if I'd just be better off using Demo and off perking DBS for more dsmage and more importantly, not wiping out my health becuase I'm too close to enemies i shoot. Any thoughts? Also agree the universal reload is a must, would make different loadups far more viable while not making us too OP as we'd still lack the big damage output of regular perks.
 

Coffee009

Active member
Feb 6, 2012
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Usually when I get an urge to play killing floor anymore, it's to pick a fun weapon and upgrade it. Survivalist is my favorite perk just because I can use whatever I want in a loadout, more room for creativity. I honestly feel as if the upgrade system is the best thing to happen to the Survivalist.

I wish Tripwire would add an option to choose a tier 1 to start with, or give the perk something like a Kar98 or a Mosin Nagant. Random isn't fun. Also would be nice if the survivalist had the 50% better 9mm + knife skill as a passive or a perk option, I dunno, seems fitting.
 

The_Pharoah

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Aug 30, 2011
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Having levelled it to 25 a few times I can honestly say its a fun perk to play. Yeah its not as hard hitting as specialised perks however you do get the ability to be multiple perks at the same time. A good example is my fav loadout:

1. HZ12 (Support)
2. RPG (or M79 - Demo)
3. Medic nades (Medic)

With the explosive perk, etc - you can be very hard hitting. The HZ12 takes care of everything up to big zeds (it actually does kill big zeds when you do constant double shots) and the RPG takes care of big zeds, esp FPs when you shoot at their legs.

Those medic nades (esp on HOE) really come in handy to support the medic or just being a medic if theres none. Trust me, everyone will thank you for a nicely placed nade int he middle of the group.

However it only really becomes fun after about level 15.
 

infntnub

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The_Pharoah;n2326909 said:
Having levelled it to 25 a few times I can honestly say its a fun perk to play. Yeah its not as hard hitting as specialised perks however you do get the ability to be multiple perks at the same time. A good example is my fav loadout:

1. HZ12 (Support)
2. RPG (or M79 - Demo)
3. Medic nades (Medic)

With the explosive perk, etc - you can be very hard hitting. The HZ12 takes care of everything up to big zeds (it actually does kill big zeds when you do constant double shots) and the RPG takes care of big zeds, esp FPs when you shoot at their legs.

Those medic nades (esp on HOE) really come in handy to support the medic or just being a medic if theres none. Trust me, everyone will thank you for a nicely placed nade int he middle of the group.

However it only really becomes fun after about level 15.
Yeah, that was my "go-to" after they changed the katana weight for a while. (Why are you aiming at the FP legs with the RPG? Or are you just doing that while they are shielding?)

I still prefer m16/railgun and I also take the med nades with the level 15 skill.
 

infntnub

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Coffee009;n2326908 said:
Usually when I get an urge to play killing floor anymore, it's to pick a fun weapon and upgrade it. Survivalist is my favorite perk just because I can use whatever I want in a loadout, more room for creativity. I honestly feel as if the upgrade system is the best thing to happen to the Survivalist.
Good point - the upgrade system did open up more options for the perk. I should start utilizing them at some point lol.
 

s5yn3t

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infntnub;n2326913 said:
Good point - the upgrade system did open up more options for the perk. I should start utilizing them at some point lol.
only thing that makes it worse now is that you'll be even more broke than usual while playing survivalist.

Time to make more creative beggar signs xD
 

Coffee009

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s5yn3t;n2326930 said:
only thing that makes it worse now is that you'll be even more broke than usual while playing survivalist.

Time to make more creative beggar signs xD
Try buying a VLAD asap and use the single shot for husks and below. You can (atleast on solo) do early waves without reloading... and the ammo is cheap af.
 

s5yn3t

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Coffee009;n2326938 said:
Try buying a VLAD asap and use the single shot for husks and below. You can (atleast on solo) do early waves without reloading... and the ammo is cheap af.
that is if i will play survivalist anytime soon.
its like my least played perk followed by sharp, bers and swat.

but thanks for the tip :3
 

Bluntman420

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May 21, 2015
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I think the only real re-work should be to some of the skills, either as a refinement or a general re-work. Zed-splosion is more of an annoyance to me for example. I feel melee expert is kinda "meh" compared to medic training.

Otherwise, I've been having fun with Survivalist lately and feel it works very well with the upgrade system.
 

s5yn3t

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Bluntman420;n2327029 said:
I think the only real re-work should be to some of the skills, either as a refinement or a general re-work.
That basically applies to nearly every other class in the game, and i've been pushing ideas with others on which skills need either a buff or an additional bonus to compete with the other skill in the same level for the class.
 
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