This map is still totally and utterly broken balance wise. I've never seen the Allies win a round, and I've never even seen the Allies finish the map in possession of anything other than A. Often most of the map is spent simply trying to hold A. It's just painful to play.
[MAP-WIP] Stalingradkessel
- Thread starter fmc'Attila
- Start date
I blame the steady-aim and zoom system in RO2. Its basically zero sway and maximum sniping accuracy.
This makes crossing to B and Railyard alot harder to do than in RO1.
Smoke helps just as in RO1 though.
Oh, and I noticed (playing as allies) that when allies capped B (yes, it happened!!!) the route to the german ''sniping'' house that overlooks A and the route between A and B was locked off, due to spawn protection.
This is different from RO1 version, where smart players would sneak through B, and go criss cross through D to get up the stairs quickly and clear out and hold the german sniping house.
This could really turn the tide in RO1 Stalingradskessel' and win you the match.
I agree on this. And this is really annoying in Classic, more than Realism imo.
We actually have the same problem in TE-Rakowice, Russians get spawnkilled from distance easily.
With "RO1 remake maps" we finally see the consequences of gameplay changes from RO1 to RO2
Thanks the smoke is here D:
Probably best to suggest corrections and gameplay changes for the map to help with its tweaking than bringing up the ROOST/ROHOS Realism/Classic arguments here. Lord knows there are enough of those discussions elsewhere...
I'll see about increasing the amount of time (2 or 3 min), but honestly I'm not really sure about locking the A immediately after the cap.
I am just wondering. Has anybody seen the Russians winning this map?
Yesterday, I have played the map again and it's a great remake. But the choke points... The Russians managed to cap A and B, but were pushed back and then, then lost A and B again.
In my eyes, locking A would be a good choice as in the many rounds I have played this map, I have NEVER seen the fight being carried to C. The zoom function allows every rifleman to cover the way to C. I don't know what it takes to balance that map.
Yesterday, I have played the map again and it's a great remake. But the choke points... The Russians managed to cap A and B, but were pushed back and then, then lost A and B again.
In my eyes, locking A would be a good choice as in the many rounds I have played this map, I have NEVER seen the fight being carried to C. The zoom function allows every rifleman to cover the way to C. I don't know what it takes to balance that map.
Well i know about the map being hard, but I played it in russians and won several times (even in classic with 64 players).
I acknowledge that the main problem is the german position in the central building (the one between C and the D). So I'm trying to see if i can move back the german spawn protection to allow the russians to put more pressure on the B side. That will force the germans to split their team in two and give more room for the russians in C.
I acknowledge that the main problem is the german position in the central building (the one between C and the D). So I'm trying to see if i can move back the german spawn protection to allow the russians to put more pressure on the B side. That will force the germans to split their team in two and give more room for the russians in C.
I haven't seen the Allies win since the early version. It IS a much better map now, but it's still Cap A, then Cap B, lose A. Cap A again, lose B and on and on. I have seen the Russians make it to C a few times.....
I think part of the problem is that the Axis can pressure the Allied spawn from the start and also from several directions and the Allies can't very counter that effectively. This enables the Axis safe routes to the cap and effective fighting positions at almost any time.
What about allowing The Russians to flank around the back of A? It's way easy for the Axis to shut down the exits out of A as it is now. If A had more openings/firing positions overlooking Axis defensive positions, that would help as well.
I think part of the problem is that the Axis can pressure the Allied spawn from the start and also from several directions and the Allies can't very counter that effectively. This enables the Axis safe routes to the cap and effective fighting positions at almost any time.
What about allowing The Russians to flank around the back of A? It's way easy for the Axis to shut down the exits out of A as it is now. If A had more openings/firing positions overlooking Axis defensive positions, that would help as well.
All the problems this map has, it inherited from the original. They just become more obvious with the changed gameplay mechanics in RO2.
The problem is simply that the Axis hold all the flanks, and the Allies cannot flank at all. The right edge of the map, and lack of cover that side, prevents any flanking on the right. The left flank the Allies always have to worry about being flanked by the Axis. Hell once the doors are blown, the Axis can push forward to a decent defensive position to fire directly at Allies leaving their spawn.
Put simply unless well timed with C already capped, blowing the doors into the halls actually helps the Germans more than the Allies. It's never a good sign when blowing up an objective helps the defender.
There needs to be some major reworking of the map to make it workable in RO2.
The problem is simply that the Axis hold all the flanks, and the Allies cannot flank at all. The right edge of the map, and lack of cover that side, prevents any flanking on the right. The left flank the Allies always have to worry about being flanked by the Axis. Hell once the doors are blown, the Axis can push forward to a decent defensive position to fire directly at Allies leaving their spawn.
Put simply unless well timed with C already capped, blowing the doors into the halls actually helps the Germans more than the Allies. It's never a good sign when blowing up an objective helps the defender.
There needs to be some major reworking of the map to make it workable in RO2.
During the b4 of the map it was just before the doors of A, but I moved it back in the houses' ruins in front of the first spawn because I feared the russians would be too close. But I agree with you so I think I'll move the russian spawn forward again.
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the round should be 50 min please.
I mean it because its already a good battle no matter if the cap zones are done or not. So more time inside this map would be great.
But what is happening is that russians are having a hard time to cap B and C. They focus inside A and nobody splits to go right for C or left for B.
In the other stalinkessel a lot of russians (snipers/mg) were able to get on top of B rooftop and make it a strong defensive spot.
And in this map here russians are not using that rooftop and that back yard behind the B on the left flank.
Or at least its hard to get there without smoke in that passage between A and B. (where the AA is).
Russians should be able to domain more easily this back side on the left side behind bravo. May be a way opened on the left side below the new sniper spot for the russians (first white building on the left with snad bags at the bottom SE of A)Make a corridor there that lead us to the back of Bravo near those three big doors of Bravo using the left side (for the russians)
They way to C right side is already good.
and give us more time.
thanks.
I mean it because its already a good battle no matter if the cap zones are done or not. So more time inside this map would be great.
But what is happening is that russians are having a hard time to cap B and C. They focus inside A and nobody splits to go right for C or left for B.
In the other stalinkessel a lot of russians (snipers/mg) were able to get on top of B rooftop and make it a strong defensive spot.
And in this map here russians are not using that rooftop and that back yard behind the B on the left flank.
Or at least its hard to get there without smoke in that passage between A and B. (where the AA is).
Russians should be able to domain more easily this back side on the left side behind bravo. May be a way opened on the left side below the new sniper spot for the russians (first white building on the left with snad bags at the bottom SE of A)Make a corridor there that lead us to the back of Bravo near those three big doors of Bravo using the left side (for the russians)
They way to C right side is already good.
and give us more time.
thanks.
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Well this corridor already exist, it is only open on the CD version of the map. I didn't want a completely covered access to the back of B, but I see your point.
About the amount of time for the map, honestly I will not put 50 min, maybe 25 but no more.
I very much like that idea
I always wondered that during the RO1 version.It's what the mapper seems to think is fit ofc. Kudos for him that he did the remake.
Earlier on today, Allies won 2 rounds in a row on a 64 player server. It helped, that our clan stacked up Russians with 10 guys
But seriously, it takes extraordinary good communication and a stellar teamwork and skilled players in order to win this map as Allies as of now.
But seriously, it takes extraordinary good communication and a stellar teamwork and skilled players in order to win this map as Allies as of now.
I played the map on the [40-1] classic server yesterday and the allies won both rounds, first time I've ever seen it, so it can be done. It's just difficult and we had good leadership on the allied side. A key is to NOT blow the doors at B which keeps the axis from shutting down your spawn.
The roof on B is unusable as a sniper spot because of the axis snipers in the tower, you don't last long. Plus, the germans toss nades up through the holes. And the random arty (is it still in?) pretty much nukes you if you hang around long enough.
It would be a help if the lighting in the axis tower building was slightly brighter, you can't see the snipers at all, while the allied snipers in the bldg at the end of the road are clearly visible. Makes allies hang their head out on a stick looking for muzzle flashes and easy for axis to close that building down.
The roof on B is unusable as a sniper spot because of the axis snipers in the tower, you don't last long. Plus, the germans toss nades up through the holes. And the random arty (is it still in?) pretty much nukes you if you hang around long enough.
It would be a help if the lighting in the axis tower building was slightly brighter, you can't see the snipers at all, while the allied snipers in the bldg at the end of the road are clearly visible. Makes allies hang their head out on a stick looking for muzzle flashes and easy for axis to close that building down.