Machine Gunners

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fratelli

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 24, 2011
7
0
0
Midwest, US
Hello,

I wanted to post a machine gun specific thread pertaining to its usage and value in given situations. I am new to RO2 and have decided to work on the mg skills until I consider myself an expert.

If you have been using the MG frequently or can share an experience of where the MG helped your group please post your thoughts below for others to read.

Also, I did have a question: At what range would you feel the MG to be most effective: Long, Mid, Close?

Again this thread is geared towards those with extensive MG usage and not trolls. Sorry guys, there is always another thread for you to ruin. :)
 

Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
1,713
1,165
0
Range - Long

The LMG is basically a fully-automatic sniper. Learn to control the recoil and fire in short, controlled bursts. Adjust your sights for maximum effectiveness. You'll do best between 75-150m (at least, that's where most of my kills are).

The most important tip I can give you is NEVER EVER SET UP OVER COVER. Never set up in a window, or on a low wall. You'll get shot instantly. You can't avoid enemies like the other classes can. Not only that, you're a very high priority target.

Instead, -always- set up prone. Even if you want to set up covering a wall, go prone -next- to the wall and use the wall to conceal yourself. This serves two purposes. First, you can move freely without the cover system killing you. Second, you're aiming up at the enemies, sky lining them against the skybox and making them easy to see.

Conceal yourself as much as possible. Don't get seen, and don't fire unnecessarily. Most people start looking for a machine gun as soon as they know it's there, so don't let them figure it out. Get a few kills, then when you think that the folks you killed might be respawning, change locations. They'll come looking for you, and you can get some more easy kills.

Don't stay stationary, crawl whenever you can, avoid sprinting or running, as this will draw attention. You need to focus on stealth. Don't let them see you and you can destroy an entire enemy squad before they can retaliate. No other class can do this.

I'm sure there are more tips I can give, but that's a good start.
 

Trips

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 27, 2011
26
2
0
I think that's all good advice but I wouldn't say never use windows. They're mostly deathtraps, yes, but sometimes up in 1st or 2nd floors there's a trade off between survivability and field of fire.

Specifically i've noticed on FallenFighters as Allies to cover the open square well the 1st floor windows are a good bet. Typically in those cases I set up the MG as far left or right as I can go and only expose myself as far as I need to.
 

Trips

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 27, 2011
26
2
0
I find in FallenFighters as Allies the trade-off between a good field of fire and survivability is about enough to justify setting up in a 1st story window. I usually pick one of the southern ones, set my MG up as far to the left as possible and turn just enough to cover the area I want so I don't over-expose myself.
 

KrvKrvavu

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2011
56
16
0
Croatia
Like Nader said, hide well and hit them in the open. Always prone and choose narrow field to cover, fire only when you can get 100% kill. Loook at map often to see whats enemy attacking, and if is there a possibility that they can flank you. If place where you are at is falling into enemy hands hide somwhere and deploy in some corner prone, its much better then retreat, in many cases youre dead but this way you can still shoot somebody before they end you. If they miss you and they start attacking another objective you are behind them and can easily pick them up for some time before the figure it out.. just play on servers that dont show "killed from location"
 

Codack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
16
0
0
28
Perth, Western Australia
I only have this to say. As Axis on Commisar's House, take an MG-34 to the Park North and you will literally destroy everything, especially if the server you're playing on dosen't have kill cam, you kill Russians as they take cover directly in front of you. :)
 

Dread_Moose

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
43
13
0
you can position yourself in windows. But you need to set yourself up in buildings that are thicker so rounds dont penetrate through the walls, and you need to position yourself in the window properly, so that you only expose yourself to the people you are shooting at.

Otherwise, put yourself in trenches and artillery craters and cut off flanks.

You will always lose a head on fight, as someone else will shoot you.

But if you position yourself to cover the flanks, where enemies have to advance through, you can hold a side of the map by yourself for quite some time.
 

Easy_Rider

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 28, 2009
6
0
0
As someone who plays the game on minumum and has a consistent 130+ ping, are there any tips you gents would give for leading crossing targets?

I have tried adjusting sights, leading far, short, and everything in between, but with limited success.

I still manage a 20+ kill rate in servers, but that is mainly by restricting myself to locations where I have a narrow field and the enemy comes straight at me instead of from an angle.
 

OnTheGun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 22, 2011
209
0
0
Also, I did have a question: At what range would you feel the MG to be most effective: Long, Mid, Close?


Check out my videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/OnTheGunNZ[url]http://www.youtube.com/user/OnTheGunNZ[/URL]

There are 7 of them. They were the best runs I had during a single map (2 rounds), but they are numbered out of order, just to give it the appearance of a single battle. Number 7 for example is actually the end of the first round on the map, rather than the second round.

You'll see mostly close range stuff because I was acting as a squad assault gunner. The MG34 is a demon from the hip. If you keep to using three round bursts, you can walk the tracers on to even distant targets easily. My best hip shot kill (not in these vids) came from a snap shot on the run with the MG34 at a sniper in a window 130m+ away. My second burst, which was simply intended to make him duck while we crossed a street, killed him.

In these vids you'll see a lot of close in run and gun action, but you can also see me using fire and movement. I won't go into detail, but watch closely where I go and what I'm looking at. You will see I do miss some enemies that I should have seen, and they kill me, but you will also see me almost looking like I have a wall hack, simply because I saw someone off in the distance and immediately began moving to engage by predicting where they will go.

When I finally see the guy again, the idea is I will be ready for it, and he won't, so I get the kill.

The MG is a deadly accurate weapon in the right hands, but so are many other weapons. You have to be aware that once someone knows where you are, even if they can't see you, they can move to somewhere where they can, and you won't know it until you die. So you have to move constantly too. Never give an enemy a chance to move into position to kill you.

This means you should be aiming to engage at least 100m away, unless you are really good at running and gunning. For you, range is a good thing. It makes it harder for the enemy to hit you when they see you, and it makes it harder for an enemy to get out of your line of fire. When a squad is further away, it takes less movement of the barrel in order to bring each one under the sight. They may be 10m apart, but it's only 1 degree of your arc of fire.

The same squad in close might force you to pick up and move the gun, in order to engage the different targets. This is how pop-up riflemen get you. They spread out so you have to swing the gun wildly from side to side, then wait for you to be shooting at someone else. By the time you get the sight on them you will be dead.

You want to bunch up your targets. Either by looking for places enemies will be bunched up, like doorways, or by expanding the distance and bunching them up visually if not physically. Heck the MG-34 sight won't even go lower than 200m, so it's actually harder to engage close in targets. The DP-28 is a little weird. Don;t forget to switch the sight up to 100 or even 200m before you start running towards the enemy. I've lost a lot of sudden contacts because the sights were set to 50m and I hadn't realised.

Remember though, if that pop up rifleman sticks his head up, and you shoot at him trying to kill him, he will duck. That is when you get up and redeploy. You want to be changing the angle, not the distance (unless they are too close). Run sideways 10m and go prone again, aiming at where you last saw the rifleman. He will pop up looking at where you were, rather than where you are, and you have the time and ammo to kill him.

THAT is real world suppressive fire. You'll see a perfect example of it in the vids where I engage a rifleman in a trench while I and my squad are in the open. The SL got shot before any of us could react, but he never fired another shot. At least not that I saw.

Have a watch, and feel free to point out anything you think I'm doing wrong, so we can talk about it. I intend to add a lot more vids over time.

I prefer the DP-28 for some reason (maybe I'm a masochist and always want the harder weapon) and feel it is superior in all ways except from-the-hip CQB. It's a little to slow for that. If I could have the perfectly realistic iron sights while anything but prone, I'm sure the DP-28 would be better for CQB too. At least for me.

Seriously, if you want a LONG detailed discussion of MG tactics, I'm your man. If you don't like reading, though, let me know now and save us both a bunch of time :p
 

OnTheGun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 22, 2011
209
0
0
The most important tip I can give you is NEVER EVER SET UP OVER COVER. Never set up in a window, or on a low wall. You'll get shot instantly. You can't avoid enemies like the other classes can. Not only that, you're a very high priority target.

I disagree. Think outside the box. The cover mechanic is good if you use it differently to how just about everyone thinks. Imagine a situation where there is a single room building and the enemy are on the other side of it. Everyone I see runs into the building, sets up in a window facing the enemy, and dies.

What you should be doing is staying outside the building, setting up in a window on the far side from the enemy, facing into the building, and shoot through the windows on the other side. If no moron is in those windows, you can cover all of them without moving, and the enemy isn't sure where you actually are. If they try to grenade you, the room protects you. If they try to assault the room, you can still kill them without moving, or are free to move away from the building, or even hit space and be in the building pretty rapidly.

This is the way I use the cover mechanic. Not on the first layer of cover on this side of 'no man's land' but on the second or third layer, shooting over the top of the first. This means I can cover more of the frontage and be less visible and outside grenade range.

Still, never is better than bad, so don't use it unless it's a situation like this that can have it work out.

Conceal yourself as much as possible. Don't get seen, and don't fire unnecessarily.
But don't be too afraid to recon by fire. Fire a burst at a likely hiding place and see if anyone moves or tries to shoot back. Sometimes a sneaky bugger is crawling around thinking you have no idea he is there, but a random burst nearby gets him to stand up and run, thinking you know exactly where he is.

In this case you are intentionally setting yourself up as bait. You are in a position so that you can engage anyone who tries to come looking for you, so that is what you want them to do. You might also slow down an attack, simply by distracting it and turning it into an attack on you instead of the objective, making them waste lives pointlessly.

Don't stay stationary, crawl whenever you can, avoid sprinting or running, as this will draw attention.
Same as above, plus once you are in combat, and they know where you are, you should be moving from cover to cover as fast as possible, while trying to stay as concealed as possible. The more times you move between shots, the less knowledge about your location the enemy has, and the slower he has to go. If he knows where you are, and you don't move, he can get into dead ground and sprint around you before you even realise it.

Fire the burst, make him duck, then run and hide before he looks again. Use the sprint from prone so that all you have to do is let go of the keyboard, and the gun will eventually be properly deployed ready to fire. That has saved my life many times.

They key is to run just as far as you think you can before he can shoot at you. If he has a bolt action, you have a lot of time between shots to move, and once you're moving you're harder to hit. It's the getting up and going that gets you killed, not the running itself, if you don't run too long.

This is also how you train your enemy. You fire short bursts at random intervals only at known targets. Eventually, the enemy thinks that any time he moves, you will shoot at him, because he can't tell when you're moving, or reloading, or even if you can see him at that moment. He may even just hunker down and hope you move off. Basically you are shutting down his options until the only options left are suicidal. Then you can do pretty much anything you want. I have had guys so scared of me, that I casually got up and ran over to their cover and shot them, because they wouldn't even risk sticking their head up to look.

Battles are won and lost in the mind, long before they are won or lost on the battlefield. Knowledge is power, so what you are trying to do is get more power for yourself, and less power for the enemy. The less he knows about what you are doing and where, the harder it is for him to kill you. The more you know about what he is doing and where, the easier it is for you to kill him.

Of course, most of this isn't MG specific. You just have to modify the rules slightly to accommodate different weapons.

There are some specific MG tips that are the opposite of what you do with other weapons. For example where you aim. With any other weapon, you maximise your chance of neutralising the enemy if you aim at centre mass. By this, I mean the hips, rather than the chest. With the MG, you maximise your chances of neutralising the enemy if you walk your rounds onto the target rather than off, so your aim point should be much lower, say the knees or even the feet. That first round will hit the knees or feet, but the rest of the rounds will have a better chance of hitting the body and head.

There are more, but I'll stop here and let someone else have a go :p

I'm sure there are more tips I can give, but that's a good start.
There is so much we can all share. This is the kind of stuff I like to talk about, not "balance" or "bugs" or "nerfing". None of those things make as much difference as the tactics you use. The more we all share about them, the more fun we'll all have playing.
 

Solon64

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 3, 2011
3
1
0
As someone who plays the game on minumum and has a consistent 130+ ping, are there any tips you gents would give for leading crossing targets?

I have tried adjusting sights, leading far, short, and everything in between, but with limited success.

I still manage a 20+ kill rate in servers, but that is mainly by restricting myself to locations where I have a narrow field and the enemy comes straight at me instead of from an angle.

The last paragraph there is where MGs shine. Do not overexpose yourself, your MG is not a high-powered assault rifle, it is there for area denial, not necessarily kills. You aren't trying to murder anyone that moves, merely to make them think that if they move, they'll get murdered.

As for leading crossing targets at a distance... with 130+ ping it'll be tricky no matter what weapon you're using. Depending on how long they're in view, and how far away they are, see if you can notice the dirt kicking up from your bullets, either in front of them or behind them, and then adjust according to that.

Don't bother adjusting your sights, that isn't necessary on basically any map except FallenFighters and maybe Spartanovka, the distances are all roughly 150 meters or less.
 

Vesper11

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
201
68
0
After playing machine gunner a bit I say that using windows and cover sometimes is necessary. On Spartanovka both 2nd floor side windows are great for area denial as it allows you to shoot enemies that try to get on the other side of the road, its where mg shines. On other maps where some intense fighting is going, you can use windows to shoot at other building, suppressing and killing enemy players (full auto, wall penetration, large ammo capacity and good stopping power helps that) and while this position is dangerous (though there usually are other people from your team shooting out of windows providing some distraction) it can buy your team enough time to get to the enemy building.

Also, dont forget that you move yourself when you are aiming so aim to the left if you see someone shooting at you from the right and you can always leave your position if you feel that its getting dangerous (like when you run out of ammo), its a little harder to do so when prone.
 

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
2,288
117
0
The LMG is basically a fully-automatic sniper.

Amen to than brother......

FF rocks with a LMG, like the others have said, everyone wants to kill you, especially those 3-4 guys you just nailed running out in the open, so don't advertise. Only shoot the minimum # of rounds needed, find yourself a very concealed spot and run like the devil if you hear any rounds landing near by. I use the 2nd story windows with great success, set up on one side and be offensive, keep scanning for the guys on the other side of the map who are hunting you and you'll stay alive a long time. I usually only get picked off once or twice at most in a match.

Keeping the other team afraid to leave cover without firing a shot is way more effective than running through your ammo trying to suppress.
 
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grothesj2

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2010
527
155
0
I'm still fairly new to the MG class but I am finding I do the best where I get a rather narrow fire-lane where the enemy is likely to head up or cross. It makes it hard for the enemy to shoot at you without exposing himself to your bullets so survivability goes way up. A particularly fun way to pick a fire lane is covering the flank or right down the front of an objective point. The enemy is so busy rushing into the cap area they don't always look around where they are getting shot from. I rarely use the windows and walls for firing any more. There are times I will but it becomes very situational and not my norm. I still make a lot of mistakes but getting better all the time.
 

Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
1,713
1,165
0
See, and all those folks were whining about how there isn't enough suppression and LMGs are useless.

Way to learn the class, guys. I look forward to covering the flanks with you, or mowing your dudes down against you.
 

Vesper11

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
201
68
0
See, and all those folks were whining about how there isn't enough suppression and LMGs are useless.

Way to learn the class, guys. I look forward to covering the flanks with you, or mowing your dudes down against you.
While mg is a great long range killing machine I've yet to see any effective use of suppression. Today I've missed about 5 shots shooting at a guy with rifle at about 80m. While it was my fault for not killing him still I find it strange that he was able to take a good aim (took him a while) and shoot me despite all the bullets whistling past his head. The only effective method of suppression in game is arty, frendly grenades are also effective, enemy grenades simply kill you. Also, for some reason the gunner in t-34 (dunno about PzIV) can be suppressed by mg fire (grenades work too, maybe a little too good considering that it explodes near your track and crew knows that they are 100% safe inside).


p.s. MG can effectivly suppress by killing lots of people but ingame suppression has nothing to do with it :3
 
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grothesj2

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2010
527
155
0
While mg is a great long range killing machine I've yet to see any effective use of suppression. Today I've missed about 5 shots shooting at a guy with rifle at about 80m. While it was my fault for not killing him still I find it strange that he was able to take a good aim (took him a while) and shoot me despite all the bullets whistling past his head. The only effective method of suppression in game is arty, frendly grenades are also effective, enemy grenades simply kill you. Also, for some reason the gunner in t-34 (dunno about PzIV) can be suppressed by mg fire (grenades work too, maybe a little too good considering that it explodes near your track and crew knows that they are 100% safe inside).


p.s. MG can effectivly suppress by killing lots of people but ingame suppression has nothing to do with it :3
If they are ducking their heads at all, alter or stop their movements, they are suppressed without needing a game mechanic.
 

Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
1,713
1,165
0
If they are ducking their heads at all, alter or stop their movements, they are suppressed without needing a game mechanic.

+1

If he could acquire you from 80 meters, your position probably wasn't the best in the world either.

Stay low, stay alive.
 

NME

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 9, 2011
40
2
0
I often find the most hazardous time is getting from spawn to a viable point.

My MG man has often been picked off at the spawn, which is annoying, or when he is wheezing half across an open patch of land desperately trying to find a little bit of cover.

I find this the most distressing on Commisar's house: you can crawl your way through the barrage of mortars to C or take your chances tring to run across to the trenches and out the other side to the back of D. If you DO make it D, you do get just rewards though!
 

Josef Nader

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
1,713
1,165
0
Yeah, you are weakest while relocating. At least 85% of my deaths come from trying to get into position.

One thing I've found incredibly helpful while moving is your pistol. If you know how to use it, it can pack a surprising amount of firepower, and you can often get a few shots off before the other guy can react. If you aim well, you can usually win quick draws as long as you aren't sprinting.

Shoot, I was even using my pistol to countersnipe riflemen on Apartments to avoid getting shot as I set up my LMG.

And then I got my mitts on the TT33, and the very next game I got 10 kills with the little guy. It's nearly as effective as a semi-auto rifle in CQC (maybe a bit less stopping power, but not much), it has a fast reload, and some decent sights.

Basically, don't rely on your LMG while moving. Stay crouched and keep your revolver/pistol handy. Stick to close quarters and always aim for the heart or head, and you'll really increase your survivability while moving to a new location.