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Mac 10 uselessness problem and ways to solve it

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
Just tried new beta on test map with damage numbers. Weapon become stronger, but still have not place in my opinion.
Reasons for this are following:
-It's high firerate makes burning damage potency incredibly low. It simply makes 3 or more shots between each burn tick. (pretty much no use for burning damage build)
-Damage per bullet is weaker than both tier 2 and 3. Not to mention HRG Nailgun, which overwhelm Mac 10 in every way possible. (no use for SWAT either)
-No burning ground. (It is fine, but makes it gun to avoid for burning ground build)
Also, reducing it's price down to 900 does not make it more valuable. It is just not as useful as tier 2 firebug weapons and not as bullet/price efficient as tier 2 SWAT weapons.

And so, I came up with these options:
1) Add penetration
2) Highly increase burn damage with reducing ticks, around 10-15 damage but only 1-2 ticks
3) Add burning ground effect

These also can be combined for better effects. Penetration will make it useful for both firebug and SWAT due to better crowd killing ability. Increased burn damage will increase damage potency, making it much more suitable for ammo saving without making it much stronger. And burning ground, well, makes it good, maybe too good. I added it just for the numbers. But burning ground will make mac 10 able to compete with any other firebug weapons.
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,511
162
63
Belgium
Well, they already increased the afterburn damage... Is it still too weak? Haven't tried the gun yet.

And I agree. T2 or T3 weapons (depending on the perk) are kind of a mixed bag, and people will usually ignore one of the two tiers : either keeping their T1 for a longer period of time or purchasing the T2 straight up and wait to get their hands on the T4 (or T5)

So having a T2.5 really does sound like a bad idea...Or the perfect way to be ignored. But then, would it be better as a T2? I have no clue. I know I'd still the raw, powerful damage of the Trenchgun more. And the Spitfire, while not hitscan, is also a great middle-ground. The Mac-10 has it's firerate and precision... That's good and all, but since everything comes at you so freaking fast in KF2, high-ranged weapons are not that useful actually (besides for the sharp)

I would have been AGAINST ground fire, but the problem is that pretty much all of the other firebug's weapons does it now... Even the trenchgun. It would have been fair if it would have been half-and-half (to make you choose between a ground fire build or a firearms build), but now you really have little reason NOT to use the very valuable ground fire skill.

I do believe that the best option would be to either increase the afterburn slightly more, or add penetration (not too much though). Maybe not both. I still like that gun very much, but it is true that it has troubles finding its spot.
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
Agree. Burning ground is very powerful now with trench gun aboard. Was very surprised and now I don't actually see much use of burning damage.
Mac 10, however, with penetration and burning damage might change that. It will be able to compete against burning ground in terms of crowd killing. And also still be weaker than flaregun at damage per bullet. Quite balanced.
 

NokiaSE

Active member
Jul 17, 2012
895
39
28
Taiwan
Mac-10 is never meant to be flame-wise more powerful than your go-to slash standard flame-based weapon like C&B and Flamethrower -- nor bullet-wise more potent than something like a MP5, its "use" is adding the bullet element to the arsenal of its proficient perk -- so that Firebug could be more effective via a conventional slash welcomed manner such as being able to de-head a Zed from a distance.

Meaning it's supposed to be a side-grade option to Firebug and a spicy low-mid-tier option for SWAT, though in the case of the latter it's true that flame itself doesn't mean much as setting a Zed on fire doesn't boast any real use other than a simple DoT.

I swear people have been suggesting the burning status should mean something by itself like a movement speed slow or a incremental multiplier to the burning Zed's incoming incap-power, or anything of that matter (debuff).
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
Mac-10 is never meant to be flame-wise more powerful than your go-to slash standard flame-based weapon like C&B and Flamethrower -- nor bullet-wise more potent than something like a MP5, its "use" is adding the bullet element to the arsenal of its proficient perk -- so that Firebug could be more effective via a conventional slash welcomed manner such as being able to de-head a Zed from a distance.

Meaning it's supposed to be a side-grade option to Firebug and a spicy low-mid-tier option for SWAT, though in the case of the latter it's true that flame itself doesn't mean much as setting a Zed on fire doesn't boast any real use other than a simple DoT.

I swear people have been suggesting the burning status should mean something by itself like a movement speed slow or a incremental multiplier to the burning Zed's incoming incap-power, or anything of that matter (debuff).
Nah, burning is good as it is now. It deals enough damage and sometimes really helps against bosses. And burning panic saved a lot of lives there.
But mac10? I don't really see any use for "de-head" weapon for Firebug. Flaregun and Trenchgun literally one-shot any mid zed. So I don't get it.
 

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,374
491
83
How about also bumping it down 650 dosh and Tier 2? I'd be tempted to seriously pick it up then.