KF M4 Update

[mrsirr]

Well it's 1:40 here and I'm still derailin this baby :O
Me an Heinlein freakin hang. He is maximum boss.
But yeah we already have primitive lil remote controlled robot that can fire guns called Avatars. While I don't think that an AI should ever be used for war, because of the possibilities for horrible errors, but the concept of fighting a war with robots doesn't offend me. War is only barely honorable with those conventions. It's people killing eachother; the side with the best tech wins (usually.)
As far as I'm concerned, the less people that die, the better.

EDIT: Yeah I can't find much about the Marauder thing. I'm not sure where I originally heard about it. I heard they classified it in '93.

 

[Spartan1388]

I am tempted to reply, but i will not.


The derailing stops now!


New Improved, Super-Cool M4 Carbine in KF

Damage: 35, as it is now
Magazine: 40 rounds
Accuracy: Improved
Recoil: Less
Sights: Eotech (Long) Holo-sight.
Sounds: New realistic sounds
Double-Shot bug: Fixed for all weapons
Reload time: Same
Price: 1500-2000

 

[mrsirr]

Aww why everybody be hatin on the Trijicon? I like the current sight.
But yeah it should be more accurate and have less recoil.
I can understand people hating the recoil since firearms of the AR-15 platform (except maybe the LR-300) handle recoil incredibly well.
I never thought of changing the price but I kinda like it. I never really saw the M4 as a sidegrade the the AK.
Plus it seems like the commando just passes over most of his arsenal having 5 weapons costing 900 950 1000 1000 and 1100 base, it seems like he could skip over most of those in one wave.
Although these are big changes we're talkin about so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[|WC|Capt.525]

I am tempted to reply, but i will not.


The derailing stops now!


New Improved, Super-Cool M4 Carbine in KF

Damage: 35, as it is now
Magazine: 40 rounds
Accuracy: Improved
Recoil: Less
Sights: Eotech (Long) Holo-sight.
Sounds: New realistic sounds
Double-Shot bug: Fixed for all weapons
Reload time: Same
Price: 1500-2000

 

[mrsirr]

If you want a realistic game, go and play something that is meant to hae realistic weaponry and Handling (ie Arma, RO:OST, RO2, etc). Killing Floor never has, and never will be a realistic game (hint, the reason why it can't be are te magical walking clones that shrug off bullets, grenades and LAW rockets).

BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLABHBLAH
Everyone always says that.
Look, I don't really care that much if the weapons are realistic, as long as they aren't downright illogical. But people always use the clones and the med syringe and all this BS as examples of unrealism.
There real animals that can shrug off bullets. Saying a game is unrealistic because everything doesn't die in one shot is stupid. People act like things like items glowing green and no partial mags mean that realism is just dead in KF.
These are all old, overused, and invalid arguements.
Games with no realism at all are unimmersive and not fun.
People have some hatred boner for realism.
Realism doesn't mean RO, it means you don't play a game and go "Wow that was stupid" every few seconds. I think sometimes realism needs to be suppressed for balance reasons; but why would you have something in a game that made it worse, just for the sake of it being unrealistic? If it can be realistic and balanced then why not??
I don't have a big problem with how KF is right now because it is fairly realistic and therefore immersive.
There are actually few things present in KF that just make no sense at all.

 

[Spartan1388]

Here we go again...

A realistic video game is STALKER.

Arma is something like a shooter-simulator.

STALKER is the Golder Ration between game and realism.


Realism will only make the game more "hardcore" for those who like it, and the majority of the other gamers simply does not care, but they will probably like it if they sit and think about it.
KF is much more closer to realism than surreal/satirical/comical games like Team Fortress 2, Serious Sam and Armed and Dangerous. Although the first and third Serious Sam games are closer to realism.


Normal difficulty and level 0 is the basis for any comparison, because you do not have bonuses and your class bonuses are similar to the skills of an average guy with some training, and we can estimate that the damage from ZEDs is close to real-life.

Beginner is easier for learning purposes. Think about it as if the experiments that created the ZEDs failed miserably.

Hard, is as if the experiments somehow produced very tough ZEDs. It is still realistic as difficulty.

Suicidal and HoE, i consider to be for bragging rights and for those who like the challenge. Not difficulties for the average gamer anyway and probably not much realistic, but we can explain it away somehow.

So, what does realism will break?

 

[mrsirr]

Well realistic weight would break the balance of the encumbrance unless there was a major retooling of it, which I don't expect.
But some people just want it to be unrealistic for farts and giggles.

 

[Spartan1388]

Not necessarily.

When you are 15/15 full, it can be made that you will move slower than it is now, so you will have to choose between mobility or firepower.

 

[mrsirr]

That would be a way to balance it.
But there would still be seemingly game breaking things.
Like carrying an M99 with a LAR to name one.
Or, if we were rounding weights down, an M99 and an M32.
Holy delicious cows.

 

[Spartan1388]

Well, maybe a separate "bulkiness" system then, but the M99 weights around 10-11 Kgs, so not enough room for many more things.
It would be better to have a M99 and an Assault Rifle for trash-killing.

We would have to make new tactics, that's for sure.

 

[mrsirr]

Well that's the thing. I think it could be done, but it would be a major change, and I don't think anyone is up to it.

 

[ArcheKruz]

Here's my take on it:

H&K 416 - Improving on the M4A1 assault rifle, this weapon benefits from improved reload speeds and slightly better damage. Recoil is also improved over the M4A1, making this weapon ideal for beginner Commandos.

• Weight - 6
• Price -

 

[Spartan1388]

I love guns, and specially lots of them, but i do not think that they are going to add something similar to M4 that is a tad different. At least not without massive demand.


Back to the M4.
If realistic weapons are added, most weapons will weight less, some will weight more.
Players will have to choose between spending all their money to get an arsenal that will get lost if the die and also choose between mobility and firepower.

What realistic weights will actually do, is to give space to carry weapons you can find around to sell them, and also give you the ability to carry 1 more weapon.

Of course, people will be able to buy more weapons, but using the crisis demand and the "black-market" the prices can be raised, so people won't be able to carry many off-perk weapons, specially on higher difficulties.
It makes sense for non-UK weapons, and U.K is not U.S.A. Very strict gun control over there.

Carrying around a Bullpup, or a Lever-Action to score some Headshots off-perk, won't harm anyone.

Good players will carry as much weapons they can use effectively. Look at the Sharpie. They can carry many pistols, but using them effectively is another story.

 

[Zombie Overlord]

Here we go again...

A realistic video game is STALKER.

Arma is something like a shooter-simulator.

STALKER is the Golder Ration between game and realism.


Realism will only make the game more "hardcore" for those who like it, and the majority of the other gamers simply does not care, but they will probably like it if they sit and think about it.
KF is much more closer to realism than surreal/satirical/comical games like Team Fortress 2, Serious Sam and Armed and Dangerous. Although the first and third Serious Sam games are closer to realism.


Normal difficulty and level 0 is the basis for any comparison, because you do not have bonuses and your class bonuses are similar to the skills of an average guy with some training, and we can estimate that the damage from ZEDs is close to real-life.

Beginner is easier for learning purposes. Think about it as if the experiments that created the ZEDs failed miserably.

Hard, is as if the experiments somehow produced very tough ZEDs. It is still realistic as difficulty.

Suicidal and HoE, i consider to be for bragging rights and for those who like the challenge. Not difficulties for the average gamer anyway and probably not much realistic, but we can explain it away somehow.

So, what does realism will break?

There are STALKER mods that turn the game into a even more "real" experience as in the AI gets more accurate, bullets kill everyone including you in a few hits, this makes automatic weapons scary dangerous and the lighting part makes night terrifying as it is pitch black. For STALKER SoC, there is a mod that enhances the game on every level, gameplay, bugfix, and that wise. So point being: some games can do the more real side and be good, Killing Floor is not that.

 

[Spartan1388]

I seen the pitch-black thing. It is really bad. I was in the forest at night, there is almost always some light.

Also, a couple of bullets killing you is not good for balance between game and simulator.

The vanilla STALKER is a good example of a realistic game that is not a simulator, but something enjoyable to play.

 

[ArcheKruz]

I love guns, and specially lots of them, but i do not think that they are going to add something similar to M4 that is a tad different. At least not without massive demand.


Back to the M4.
If realistic weapons are added, most weapons will weight less, some will weight more.
Players will have to choose between spending all their money to get an arsenal that will get lost if the die and also choose between mobility and firepower.

What realistic weights will actually do, is to give space to carry weapons you can find around to sell them, and also give you the ability to carry 1 more weapon.

Of course, people will be able to buy more weapons, but using the crisis demand and the "black-market" the prices can be raised, so people won't be able to carry many off-perk weapons, specially on higher difficulties.
It makes sense for non-UK weapons, and U.K is not U.S.A. Very strict gun control over there.

Carrying around a Bullpup, or a Lever-Action to score some Headshots off-perk, won't harm anyone.

Good players will carry as much weapons they can use effectively. Look at the Sharpie. They can carry many pistols, but using them effectively is another story.

I am proposing it as a REPLACEMENT.

 

[mrsirr]

I'm so confused these days I just don't even know.
Though I would like a 416; then again I heard that its short-stroke gas piston ruins that great recoil control that most AR-15 based guns tend to have.
But. . .
I also heard it runs cooler and cleaner
Fudge I dunno.
I feel like I'm just talking to myself and typing out the one sided conversation for all to see.

 

[Mutsumi]

The recoil difference should be negligible. .223 and 5.56 are manageable either way as long as you get used to your weapon's characteristics.

I don't know anyone personally who's used an HK416 and neither have I fired an MR223, but from what I've heard, the 416 is heavier, more costly and somehow less accurate than the Colt M4.

The main advantage of the 416 is its improved reliability especially under full-auto.

 

[Spartan1388]

The HK416 is a CQB weapon as far as i know.

It is heavy because it has a heavy barrel to handle better continuous fully-automatic fire, and it is less accurate because it has a shorter barrel.
Of course there are long barrel HK416 versions, but these are not the "standard" model as far as i know.

With the M4/M16 still in production and rifles like the Tavor around, i would not even look at this weapon.

It looks cool, but if you are living in the USA, you can build a better rifle by getting all the part separately to suit your needs. You know, like Barbie for guys.
As for the Military, there are better weapons to buy.

 

[mrsirr]

The 416 is less accurate because of the piston over the barrel.
That was also what I meant when I said it has more recoil. In RO terms it has more sway. Doesn't kick any more but it doesn't stay on target because all of the recoil doesn't go straight back like on most ARs