M32 or L.A.W?
- Thread starter Bill Nye The Science Spy
- Start date
It mostly depends on the map and your playing tactics. I prefer the LAW, it is much more fun and more reliable against fps and scrakes. 2-3 nades by their foot combined with a rocket explosion is almost always enough to kill them instantly. Doom is one of the best maps for using the LAW. Blue or Brown room works good. Law + Nade comboing does serious damage. You must watch for team grenades or you will blow yourself up.
I like using m32 with support sometimes with hunting or aa12 for backup. The increased nade capacity and double nade damage with that class makes it almost like a demolition himself. Throw a nade or two at a fp or scrake, then shoot a few m32 grenades and its dead. This will soften patty up to, allowing the final aa12 or double blast for the kill.
I like using m32 with support sometimes with hunting or aa12 for backup. The increased nade capacity and double nade damage with that class makes it almost like a demolition himself. Throw a nade or two at a fp or scrake, then shoot a few m32 grenades and its dead. This will soften patty up to, allowing the final aa12 or double blast for the kill.
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I use the LAW. Mainly because I get into trouble with the m32, with hurting and/or killing myself more often than when I use the LAW.
also:
also:
ALL SUSPECTS ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN THE COURT OF THE LAAAAAW!
Since a fleshpound takes somewhere around 3-400 headshots with 9mm to decapitate it, much less kill it, I doubt the possibility to win with knife and 9mm.
On the point of the law being a one trick pony, that's very true. Its one trick is "blow the everloving hell out of everything"
The law makes the demoman a Glass Cannon which means that you can deal the highest damage per shot fired of anyone on your team, bar none, at the cost of being royally screwed without a team between you and the zombies.
Final point of note: A level 6 demolitions expert gets 22 shots, each costing aboouuuut $20, so it costs somewhere around $400 to fill it each round, from empty. Now, providing you're frugal with your shots, you should be left with 4-6 rockets to play with, and by midwave still have around 11-14 left, depending on how your team is doing. You should be able to actually afford pipes while using the law, which renders fps much less dangerous, and scrakes get stunned and a good portion of their health chopped off to boot from a rocket.
Given the explosive radius of a LAW rocket, the damage done (on par with a pipe bomb), you can easily slay 5-10 zombies per shot fired. That means that an entire clip of law rockets, combined with pipes and the 9mm, should render you able to take out an entire wave by yourself, in terms of fire power. In practicality, you'll nromally get 4-7 zombies with each rocket, and only have a spare 4 or 5 pipes at any given time unless you've been given money, and you're completel ydependant on your team for protection XD
Bonus anecdote:
In hell on earth biotics lab, I was once a law demo with 2 pipes, holding spawn. One pipe was by the elevator since somebody will ALWAYS backpedal to their doom, and the other in the intersection, since it isn't likely to be killed by a bloat or a siren.
My team was fairly aware of me, and crouched whenever big stuff came along, or when they crossed the hall, so that goes to show above average intelligence really. I got to repay them for that around wave 7 or 8 when two scrakes zoomed in, and later a fleshpound raged. While my team had gotten stuck in elevator and in the window hall, I angled left in order to get into that long hall with the welded door at the end.
By aiming at the ceiling and upper walls, I was able to stun the 2 scrakes, take care of teh trash that was overwhelming us, and with the second rocket, take out the two scrakes (they were already damaged enough to rage) while keeping the area clear enough to regroup. The same thing happened with a fleshie later on that game. Granted I couldn't stun it but I kept the trash off and took off big chunks of its hitpoints.
If I had been using the m32, my team would have wiped from the scrakes and being overwhelmed.
On the point of the law being a one trick pony, that's very true. Its one trick is "blow the everloving hell out of everything"
The law makes the demoman a Glass Cannon which means that you can deal the highest damage per shot fired of anyone on your team, bar none, at the cost of being royally screwed without a team between you and the zombies.
Final point of note: A level 6 demolitions expert gets 22 shots, each costing aboouuuut $20, so it costs somewhere around $400 to fill it each round, from empty. Now, providing you're frugal with your shots, you should be left with 4-6 rockets to play with, and by midwave still have around 11-14 left, depending on how your team is doing. You should be able to actually afford pipes while using the law, which renders fps much less dangerous, and scrakes get stunned and a good portion of their health chopped off to boot from a rocket.
Given the explosive radius of a LAW rocket, the damage done (on par with a pipe bomb), you can easily slay 5-10 zombies per shot fired. That means that an entire clip of law rockets, combined with pipes and the 9mm, should render you able to take out an entire wave by yourself, in terms of fire power. In practicality, you'll nromally get 4-7 zombies with each rocket, and only have a spare 4 or 5 pipes at any given time unless you've been given money, and you're completel ydependant on your team for protection XD
Bonus anecdote:
In hell on earth biotics lab, I was once a law demo with 2 pipes, holding spawn. One pipe was by the elevator since somebody will ALWAYS backpedal to their doom, and the other in the intersection, since it isn't likely to be killed by a bloat or a siren.
My team was fairly aware of me, and crouched whenever big stuff came along, or when they crossed the hall, so that goes to show above average intelligence really. I got to repay them for that around wave 7 or 8 when two scrakes zoomed in, and later a fleshpound raged. While my team had gotten stuck in elevator and in the window hall, I angled left in order to get into that long hall with the welded door at the end.
By aiming at the ceiling and upper walls, I was able to stun the 2 scrakes, take care of teh trash that was overwhelming us, and with the second rocket, take out the two scrakes (they were already damaged enough to rage) while keeping the area clear enough to regroup. The same thing happened with a fleshie later on that game. Granted I couldn't stun it but I kept the trash off and took off big chunks of its hitpoints.
If I had been using the m32, my team would have wiped from the scrakes and being overwhelmed.
Since a fleshpound takes somewhere around 3-400 headshots with 9mm to decapitate it, much less kill it, I doubt the possibility to win with knife and 9mm.
On the point of the law being a one trick pony, that's very true. Its one trick is "blow the everloving hell out of everything"
The law makes the demoman a Glass Cannon which means that you can deal the highest damage per shot fired of anyone on your team, bar none, at the cost of being royally screwed without a team between you and the zombies.
Final point of note: A level 6 demolitions expert gets 22 shots, each costing aboouuuut $20, so it costs somewhere around $400 to fill it each round, from empty. Now, providing you're frugal with your shots, you should be left with 4-6 rockets to play with, and by midwave still have around 11-14 left, depending on how your team is doing. You should be able to actually afford pipes while using the law, which renders fps much less dangerous, and scrakes get stunned and a good portion of their health chopped off to boot from a rocket.
Given the explosive radius of a LAW rocket, the damage done (on par with a pipe bomb), you can easily slay 5-10 zombies per shot fired. That means that an entire clip of law rockets, combined with pipes and the 9mm, should render you able to take out an entire wave by yourself, in terms of fire power. In practicality, you'll nromally get 4-7 zombies with each rocket, and only have a spare 4 or 5 pipes at any given time unless you've been given money, and you're completel ydependant on your team for protection XD
Bonus anecdote:
In hell on earth biotics lab, I was once a law demo with 2 pipes, holding spawn. One pipe was by the elevator since somebody will ALWAYS backpedal to their doom, and the other in the intersection, since it isn't likely to be killed by a bloat or a siren.
My team was fairly aware of me, and crouched whenever big stuff came along, or when they crossed the hall, so that goes to show above average intelligence really. I got to repay them for that around wave 7 or 8 when two scrakes zoomed in, and later a fleshpound raged. While my team had gotten stuck in elevator and in the window hall, I angled left in order to get into that long hall with the welded door at the end.
By aiming at the ceiling and upper walls, I was able to stun the 2 scrakes, take care of teh trash that was overwhelming us, and with the second rocket, take out the two scrakes (they were already damaged enough to rage) while keeping the area clear enough to regroup. The same thing happened with a fleshie later on that game. Granted I couldn't stun it but I kept the trash off and took off big chunks of its hitpoints.
If I had been using the m32, my team would have wiped from the scrakes and being overwhelmed.
If you want to win with knife + 9mm, more or less you MUST play berserker. Also, you need to kite all scrakes till they die. Or you have some friends to protect you (in pub server you will be kicked).
And btw, not sayign LAW is not a good weapon, but like the xbow, you just cant miss. You have too little ammo. And everytime you miss it cost you A LOT.
That's just me but I dont like playing a game under such a high pressure (I play on pub servers 90% of the time). And everytime I miss lead to someone's death or seriously hurt. I just dont like it, so I like M14 over xbow and M32 over LAW. I can make "some" mistake or "some" kind of crwazy move, and that's fun to play
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Cna't miss? Fweeehehehehe! Missing is the FUN part! The splash damage on that bugger at high levels is the length of 3 patriarchs end to end! If in doubt, aim at the surface NEAREST the target. I like aiming at upper walls and ceilings to avoid my teammates, for example.
Yeah... not saying miss this way...
I mean... why the F--- the rocket will be blocked by a teamate when he is one feet away from where you aim? Not to mentinon random movements screw you up too...
I call them LAWyers.
And now on topic, I say whatever fits the situation at the time, you should use...and btw
I am truly amazed that no one has mentioned the katana. I personally find the LAW to be the worst weapon in the game - little ammo, ridiculously heavy, long reload for one shot, and ineffective against the bigger badies. The patriarch gets a 50% resistance, and fps are pretty tough against it to I think. My favorite demo combo is M79, M32, katana, and **** pipe bombs. Unless you've got so much DOSH that you're wiping your *** with money they just come off as a waste to me. The m32 power is comparable to that of the LAW, the m79 is great for single enemies or small groups, and the katana means you're not defenseless in CQB. Best of all 2 nade launchers means that ammo is a non-issue unless you're holding off 200 some baddies with a half-dead medic.
Well it isn't that bad at all, cause it can stun a scrake and simultaniously kill almost everything around it.
You shouldn't be using it immediatly again after the reload. With the law you're meant to deal with the panic moments (a whole hallway of mobs or 2 scrakes and a fp raging on you, since it will stun the scrakes and deal a lot of damage to the fp)
And for the Patty you should be using all chainsaw's anyways.
Off course you should be using what you feel's the best.
fixed that for you. no need to thank me.
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frankly, i prefer M32 because i can't stay still to fire with the weapon, i have to move continiously...
And for the Patty you should be using all chainsaw's anyways.
But it feels like such a cheap kill.
But there is a nice mut I've been meaning to install on the server... one that will muller teams trying to do that. heehee!
*Edit* I forgot the on topic part. Whoops
I enjoy using the LAW on certain maps. Some maps it's just plain suicide. And never in a pub game. Ever.
LAW is a little bit useless on normal waves unless your really high level, at least in comparison to the M32, the M32 has enough ammo to take down your scrakes and FPS and stop your team from getting overwhelmed, I suppose the LAW is good against fps and scrakes though, but at a low level scrakes won't die from it cause of their high health and explosive resistance. LAW is also slow and clunky. Save it for patty.
SCRAKES DONT HAVE resistance to ANYTHING.
And unless LAW can two shot fps, I dont think it will be better than M32 in any case.
LAW is fantastic, but only really worth it when you are constantly able to get 7-12 kills with a single shot. The maps I find it the best in are the long corridor maps, such as biotics lab, offices, bedlam, etc. It is far superior to the M32 at killing clumps of mobs. You need 3-4 M32 grenades to match a single LAW rocket, and firing that much with the M32 will make you run out of ammo quickly. LAW also stuns scrakes, and although it isn't wise to focus them it can be helpful and save your squad from a mess.
If my team is NOT suited for taking out fleshpounds (made up of lots of commandos, sharpies, firebugs, etc) I'll go M32+pipes+HC and use the M32 primarily for the fleshpounds. If I need mobility of any sort I'll also use this loadout. If I'm in a hallway with supports to back me up I'll go LAW+pipes. The LAW deals heavy damage to the flespounds, and if the supports can't finish them off the pipes surely will.
Also, you can't really defend yourself with the LAW so you NEED good support from your squad.
If my team is NOT suited for taking out fleshpounds (made up of lots of commandos, sharpies, firebugs, etc) I'll go M32+pipes+HC and use the M32 primarily for the fleshpounds. If I need mobility of any sort I'll also use this loadout. If I'm in a hallway with supports to back me up I'll go LAW+pipes. The LAW deals heavy damage to the flespounds, and if the supports can't finish them off the pipes surely will.
Also, you can't really defend yourself with the LAW so you NEED good support from your squad.
When using nade launchers, you can't kill Scrakes efficiently on higher difficulties. On 6p HoE you need to empty full M32 clip (6 nades) to head or upper body (makes ~2x damage) to kill 1 Scrake. In addition notice, that he will rage 3-rd shot, and if there are other Scrakes around him, they will rage too. Killing Fleshpound with M32 is easy, but the same thing here - if there are Scrakes nearby, they will rage. LAW stuns Scrakes and wounds fleshies really bad, but can't be used on small stuff, or you you'll run out of rockets in the middle of the wave.
So choosing between LAW and M32 is just a choosing between killing big zeds and trash control.
Another problem with LAW is that it requires special conditions to use it. It can't be used in too short hallways, because you will hurt yourself or even your rocket will not detonated. And from the other side, it can't be used in too long hallways (like in Bedlam) , where some small zeds usually run in front of big ones and catch your rockets. And of course LAW can't be used while roaming. And of course you will need good support from the team while using the LAW. Letting zeds come close to you or running in front of your rockets are classic examples when you should forgot about using a LAW... or choosing another server.
But if LAW can be used, I prefer it over M32. Because:
1. You can stun multiple Scrakes in one shot.
2. Wound Fleshpound very bad (2 rockets kill FP on 6p HoE, so you can try to use 2 demos with LAW on some maps)
3. When shooting in big zed it also clears trash zeds around it, so all team can concentrate on finishing the big one.
I must admit that using the LAW before Scrake waves (first 4 waves in a long game) is just a waste of money. But also no need to buy M32 - you can survive early wave with using only M79 and saving money for LAW and pipes.
Here are map list, where I won HoE game with using the LAW:
So choosing between LAW and M32 is just a choosing between killing big zeds and trash control.
Another problem with LAW is that it requires special conditions to use it. It can't be used in too short hallways, because you will hurt yourself or even your rocket will not detonated. And from the other side, it can't be used in too long hallways (like in Bedlam) , where some small zeds usually run in front of big ones and catch your rockets. And of course LAW can't be used while roaming. And of course you will need good support from the team while using the LAW. Letting zeds come close to you or running in front of your rockets are classic examples when you should forgot about using a LAW... or choosing another server.
But if LAW can be used, I prefer it over M32. Because:
1. You can stun multiple Scrakes in one shot.
2. Wound Fleshpound very bad (2 rockets kill FP on 6p HoE, so you can try to use 2 demos with LAW on some maps)
3. When shooting in big zed it also clears trash zeds around it, so all team can concentrate on finishing the big one.
I must admit that using the LAW before Scrake waves (first 4 waves in a long game) is just a waste of money. But also no need to buy M32 - you can survive early wave with using only M79 and saving money for LAW and pipes.
Here are map list, where I won HoE game with using the LAW:
- Aperture - staying inside the room with zerker acting like "cork in the bottleneck", medic, 2 supports and 2 demos (LAW + M79/M32).
- Biohazard - in the room, where trader glitch was. This map is a demo paradise: 3 demos (2 LAW + 1 M79/M32) + firebug + 2 <whatever you want>. 3 demos + 3 firebugs can be very fun here.
- Departed - left room down the street from the spawn point. Also 3 demos (2LAW + M79/M32). Now it is harder when glitch place is removed, but still can be done. Just other team members must leave the middle of the room free, so demos will be able to shoot. Firebug can sit in the front, catching Husk's fireballs.
- FilthsCross - This place. 2 demos with LAW should stay on the boxes. Also 3-rd demo can be used with nade launchers. This is tough one. Teammates must ensure that nothing comes close to demos, or team will be wiped.
- Foundry - when staying inside the Control Room. One demo with LAW is enough here. Better to use more supports here to be sure that nothing will gets in.
- Hospital Horrors - room on the right on the ground floor. One player must stand at the back to block zed spawn (as seen on this screenshot). Others should stay inside the room (where clots are on screenshot). One LAW demo is enough if good supports will help finishing Scrakes. Also firebug can be used for trash control and catching Husk's fireballs.
- Waterworks - this place. 2 demos with LAW can jump up the border and shoot other teammates heads. But there is one problem - LAW shot push you back, so you can fall down. And sometimes sirens or husks attack you from the back. So maybe it's better to replace demos with sharpies on this map.
- West London - when staying inside the church.