M-14 ebr is full-auto or semi-auto

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blackfire

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Dec 30, 2010
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lol, next time il suggest a longbow :p

but the reason I said M24 is because its a well knows rifle and allot of armies use it. if it HAS to be a 100% vintage British rifle I'll settle with the any of these rifles, i guess.
(the original i mean, rest of the wiki page is about newer non-British rifles)
 
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Rainydaykid

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last time i checked the M14EBR is an Enhanced version of the m14 Battle Rifle. current implementation of the weapon is not as a "sniper" rifle, but as a battle rifle. thus, the currently implemented EBR is not a proper weapon for the sharpshooter class. to give it full-auto capability on top of that would be ludicrous.

Actually it is. Battle rifles are generally used by designated marksmen, which the marines use the M14. Designated marksmen are like snipers, somewhat, but they move with an infantry unit and provide longer ranged, heavier hitting, accurate fire out to 600 meters, something the M16 and M4 is not capable of.

I don't agree with giving it full auto, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman

Since 2010, the U.S. Army has made available two EBRs per infantry squad for units deploying to Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_14_Mod_0_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle
 
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-[SiN]-bswearer

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Actually it is. Battle rifles are generally used by designated marksmen, which the marines use the M14. Designated marksmen are like snipers, somewhat, but they move with an infantry unit and provide longer ranged, heavier hitting, accurate fire out to 600 meters, something the M16 and M4 is not capable of.

actually no....

firstly, the weapon that is in the game is a battle rifle, period case closed. it is not a sniper rifle so we cannot argue this point.

secondly, up until the arrival of the M16, the battle rifle was the standard service rifle for all infantrymen. the Springfield, Mosin, k98, SMLE, Garand, and even the original M14 were all at one point, battle rifles issued to the standard grunt. it has only been within the last 50ish years that countries have started adopting assault rifles as their standard service rifle for infantrymen and thus reserved battle rifles for designated marksmen. actually, if you look at today's modern standing armies, many still issue battle rifles as their standard service rifle. check this list, it's pretty interesting.....

anywho, to get to the heart of the matter, which you have brought up with your post, we have to establish the role of the Sharpshooter in this game. you apparently believe he is a DM. i don't.

IMO, he more closely fills the role of a sniper as opposed to a DM. if we first looked at his issued weapons, the crossbow is most definitely not the type of weapon that would be issued to a DM. the handguns are essentially side arms that a typical sniper would still use. i see the LAR as a valid secondary weapon for a sniper, equivalent to a modern sniper using a carbine or smg as a backup. the EBR is the only weapon that might hint to the SS being a DM. however, when you look at the actual role the perk plays, he is much more similar to a sniper whereas the commando more represents a hybrid DM/assault. the commando already possesses a battle rifle, in addition to his assualt rifles and carbine. the logical thing would have been to also give him another battle rifle when they added the EBR. instead it was as if TW thought "well we need to give the SS another gun just for the sake of it..."

now of course, a DM is intended for shooting between 300m - 600m, and a sniper 600m+.......looking at most every map in KF, none will have engagements even reaching 300m, so we have to exclude that type of technicality. most everyone would agree that the one thing the SS should not be good at is spamability. the current EBR, as a semi-auto battle rifle, allows the SS to spam, which is not something a sniper or even a DM would do.

the real issue is that when TW designed the perk system, they did not fully designate the roles of each perk. that's why there are issues such as this one with the EBR. is the SS a sniper or a DM? what is the commando? all i can deduct with certainty from the situation is this: the commando and SS are not the same, and thus they should not each have the same type of weapon. the EBR and SCAR are both battle rifles, therefore we have a major problem. there are two ways to fix this.....

  1. give the EBR to the commando so that he has both battle rifles
  2. give the SCAR to the SS so that he has both battle rifles and his role would have to be redefined labeling him more of a DM as opposed to a sniper. additionally you'd have to remove the SCAR's full-auto capability to bring it in line with the EBR

i would personally approve of the first option. if that option was implemented, then giving the EBR full-auto capability would be a valid change since the SCAR has full-auto capability.
 
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Wolfdust

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Jul 24, 2009
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IMO, he more closely fills the role of a sniper as opposed to a DM. if we first looked at his issued weapons, the crossbow is most definitely not the type of weapon that would be issued to a DM.

What.

1. Snipers work in small, secluded teams typically ong recon/survelliance, target marking for air-strikes, counter-sniper, killing enemy commanders, selecting targets of opportunity, or destruction of military equipment. The Sharpshooter lacks a spotter, do pretty much none of these things and well, they move with an infantry squad like a DM would rather than setting up somewhere secluded and waiting for their target (which would presumably be the Patriarch).

2. A Crossbow is in no way a sniper weapon. Crossbows are powerful as all get out but their range is in no way suitable to long-distance engagement. It's a Designated Marksman weapon. Or would be if circumstances somehow made it preferable to a DMR. Since modern armies don't have to handle outbreaks of genetically engineered horrors, pretty much no one gets issued a crossbow.

the EBR is the only weapon that might hint to the SS being a DM. however, when you look at the actual role the perk plays, he is much more similar to a sniper whereas the commando more represents a hybrid DM/assault.
Right. Some sniper he is, the way he moves with the team, providing them with powerful and at times rapid (and assuredly accurate) fire.

Oh, wait, that's the definition of a Designated Marksman.

If the Sharpshooter was a sniper he'd be on the far end of KF_Farm with a high-end, high caliber sniper rifle and a spotter, doing math to determine wind speed, bullet drop, etc. and then take the shot that would explode the Patriach's head like a watermelon. Assuming that while they were doing this a million mutants didn't eat them alive.

But that's not what the Sharpshooter does.

the commando already possesses a battle rifle, in addition to his assualt rifles and carbine. the logical thing would have been to also give him another battle rifle when they added the EBR. instead it was as if TW thought "well we need to give the SS another gun just for the sake of it..."
Much as I love the real-world weapon, the KF M14 isn't a good weapon for the Commando. It does nothing that the SCAR doesn't already do better except paint a little dot on your target and have huge, obstructive sights that aren't so bad when sharpshooting but would be entirely unworkable with rapid fire.

Both the SCAR and M14 as is have an (unperked) 20 round mag, nearly the same damage, the M14's fire rate is slower...


now of course, a DM is intended for shooting between 300m - 600m, and a sniper 600m+.......looking at most every map in KF, none will have engagements even reaching 300m, so we have to exclude that type of technicality.
Right, we have to exclude the thing that is one of the big distinctions between a sniper and a DM, that makes sense.

the real issue is that when TW designed the perk system, they did not fully designate the roles of each perk. that's why there are issues such as this one with the EBR. is the SS a sniper or a DM? what is the commando?
They seem pretty designated to me (aside from the Support, who still seems to be able to pull trash-cleaning and Big-Guy-Busting duty. How they continue to evade nerfs amazes me)

Just because TWI didn't put in the perk window "PLEASE USE THIS PERK TO KILL SCRAKES/FPs" and "USE THIS TO KILL EVERYTHING ELSE" doesn't mean they don't have a role they're built for.

all i can deduct with certainty from the situation is this: the commando and SS are not the same, and thus they should not each have the same type of weapon. the EBR and SCAR are both battle rifles, therefore we have a major problem. there are two ways to fix this.....
They're both battle rifles but the thing is that are used in very different fashions.

  1. give the EBR to the commando so that he has both battle rifles
Right. Now we have two guns that function the same. I guess the EBR looks pretty...

  1. give the SCAR to the SS so that he has both battle rifles and his role would have to be redefined labeling him more of a DM as opposed to a sniper. additionally you'd have to remove the SCAR's full-auto capability to bring it in line with the EBR
Oh cool, so Commando loses a gun, the SS gets a weapon that's well, pretty much ...a different looking EBR! Joy oh joy, both perks made out great on this idea.

This idea that is put forward seemingly entirely because you can't stand two classes using a pair of weapons that share the "battle rifle" designation. I ...really don't see the problem given that both function in-game entirely differently.

It's an idea almost as bad as the one that started this thread. Worse, maybe.
 
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sverek

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May 20, 2009
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Sharpshooter = Marksman - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksman
Sniper - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

In my image, marksman is person who good at shooting, weapon doesn't matter.

Sniper on other hand, is special marksman, who tends to take enemies from distance and stay undetected as long as possible. So he will require specific gear and weapons.

and there no place for sniper in KF. That's probably why there no sniping rifles or heavy .50 barret.
 
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Dolphin Buff Man

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I like the idea of the EBR going to the Commando class and given Full Auto. However, their will need to be a replacement and I believe the Scar's sight should be utilised for this purpose.
But again, this has been discussed in that many damn threads and nothing has happened about it. I'm not sure that many people woulda accept it openly when it was first released, yet I believe they would come to like it.
Move EBR! But don't give it full auto in sharpshooter, which should be about precision and head shots.
 

Rainydaykid

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actually no....

firstly, the weapon that is in the game is a battle rifle, period case closed. it is not a sniper rifle so we cannot argue this point.

Well, wolfdust said everything I pretty much wanted to say. They are called battle rifles, because they use a full power cartridge(7.62 x 51, 30.06, ect). Also, the designated marksman rifles are accurized battle rifles. The sharp fits the role of DM. Also, DMs can fight at any range, which is one reason the SR25 weapon system was developed.(another was so that marine snipers didn't have to carry an M16 along with their boltgun. It delivers near the precision of a bolt, with a semi action.)

Anyways, I have been shooting for 20 years, and doing weapons and military research for pretty close to that. I also did house to house clearing in Iraq, and had a chance to talk to DM guys and SF. Making it clear, I was not SF, SEALS, or any of that. I was a medic with an MP unit, but on the base, I got to meet various soldiers. When I talk about a topic, I have vast amounts of experience behind it.
 
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-[SiN]-bswearer

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some of you take the term sniper and marksman too literally. how many multiplayer/co-op games are there that feature maps with >600m distances for real sniping? not many, aside from a few simulation games. but that doesn't mean that "snipers" aren't still used.

imo, i view the multiplayer "sniper" as a person who provides support for the rest of the team while using precision accuracy to take out priority targets, which are typically at greater distances. i do not view the SS in this game as a DM simply because he should not have powerful rapid fire capability. the game already has 4 classes that are focused on spamming for clearing trash. the thing that used to make the SS unique was that he took very few shots but could dispatch priority targets with those shots. the current SS now just resembles a commando due to the fact it has the EBR and can spam away without needing any real precision accuracy.

you can call him a "DM" if you wish, but i choose to call an EBR wielding SS a spammer because that's what he is. :IS2:
 

Rainydaykid

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some of you take the term sniper and marksman too literally. how many multiplayer/co-op games are there that feature maps with >600m distances for real sniping? not many, aside from a few simulation games. but that doesn't mean that "snipers" aren't still used.

imo, i view the multiplayer "sniper" as a person who provides support for the rest of the team while using precision accuracy to take out priority targets, which are typically at greater distances. i do not view the SS in this game as a DM simply because he should not have powerful rapid fire capability. the game already has 4 classes that are focused on spamming for clearing trash. the thing that used to make the SS unique was that he took very few shots but could dispatch priority targets with those shots. the current SS now just resembles a commando due to the fact it has the EBR and can spam away without needing any real precision accuracy.

you can call him a "DM" if you wish, but i choose to call an EBR wielding SS a spammer because that's what he is. :IS2:
Well, at least now you have to hit the head. I like the M14 now, other than the crappy sights.
 

blackfire

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Dec 30, 2010
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the sights are pretty horrible indeed, they can hinder a sharpshooters ability.


i would have suggested an ACOG like the SCAR has.
M14-EBR.jpg
 
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BigDawgKS

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Jan 5, 2011
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i would have suggested an ACOG like the SCAR has.

The SCAR in KF? That's not an ACOG...

IMO, the M14 EBR in KF does not do justice to the M14 so it should be replaced with something more fun... like a bolt-action (which we are lacking in KF). Not necessarily a scoped/sniper rifle, maybe just an old timey rifle like the Mosin Nagant (could even just take it from RO). Maybe then the SS perk wouldn't be so boring...
 
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CandleJack

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the sights are pretty horrible indeed, they can hinder a sharpshooters ability.


i would have suggested an ACOG like the SCAR has.
M14-EBR.jpg

Curse you Cowadooty! You're turned all red-dot sights into ACOGS! :troll:

It's an Aimpoint, not an ACOG.

This is an Aimpoint, well, one of them:
Spoiler!


This is an ACOG, also just one of them:

Spoiler!
 
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