Luger, G43, and MG42?
- Thread starter Wint-O-Green
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Both the P38 and C96 are in. Not the Luger 08 though.
I think the Luger wil lbe added in later in an update.
I also hope that when RO2 expands out of Stalingrad, Tripwire edit the Mkb42 and create the STG44. The difference between the two is very little.
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When it expands out of Stalingrad? If, you mean?
The entire game is designed to be in and around the city, including the actual strategic map divided into the ten different maps. If they add new maps, they'd have to edit and expand the strategic map (or whatever you wish to call it) and presumably a lot of other stuff.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's a reason behind the game's title. I think if the game is pushed into another theatre (the siege of Leningrad or the Caucasus campaign as examples) then it would be as a paid expansion.
The entire game is designed to be in and around the city, including the actual strategic map divided into the ten different maps. If they add new maps, they'd have to edit and expand the strategic map (or whatever you wish to call it) and presumably a lot of other stuff.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's a reason behind the game's title. I think if the game is pushed into another theatre (the siege of Leningrad or the Caucasus campaign as examples) then it would be as a paid expansion.
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Nope I said "When" for a reason. The game is going to expand whether Tripwire do it themselves or if the community will do it (which they will). In some time we will probably see a lot of maps from allover the Ostfront and maybe one day when late war tanks are made by modders we could see some berlin maps again.
The reason I want Tripwire is to make the STG was because in RO1 I heard you couldn't edit ingame weapons, you had to fully recreate them. So really I want it so either Tripwire makes it so we can edit the Mkb42 or atleast they could make it. Also think of the other weapons that could be made by editing existing weapons.
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Sorry, I think we've got our wires crossed here. I have no doubt whatsoever that the modding community will create all sorts of great stuff to expand the game, but I meant that I do not think TWI themselves will officially do so - aside from their work on Rising Storm, which is an expansion.
A Leningrad expansion would be good, though. It could be a three-map DLC with a few new weapons and uniforms.
A Leningrad expansion would be good, though. It could be a three-map DLC with a few new weapons and uniforms.
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As has already been touched-on, the MG42 is most likely excluded due to being inherently overpowered. It was overpowered IRL -- the entire point of the MG42 was to give a single soldier the ability to wipe out an entire division, if positioned well.
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you havn't seen the mkb42 yet in game.
also the mg42 should be a hero weapon or a weapon you have to work your butt off to unlock. if its in game shouldn't be easy to get.
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you havn't seen the mkb42 yet in game.
Well, agreed, most definitely, but what could the soviets have counterpart to the MG42?
The problem with balance and realism, especially in a game set in the Second Great War, is that each nation had its own completely unique combat doctrine. I mean it's funny how all the "hardcores" constantly whine about realism while overlooking the fact that, if the game were "realistic," the soviets would be getting killed 10:1 but winning each fight anyway. Obviously that would be nothing short of retarded in terms of a fun game.
My point is that no matter how much more realistic RO is from other FPS, it's still not realistic and thank God for that -- balance is so much more critical. But for example, while in reality the soviet force's doctrine was "let's use our countrymen as expendable bullet-sponges until the Germans have no more bullets to fight with" and the German force's doctrine was "we're outnumbered a thousand to one, so let's make every squad focused around a machine-gunner and use everyone else just to cover the machine gunner" that makes for absolutely crap gameplay. The MG42 was central to the German force's doctrine after its development. So really, the best way to make a balanced WW2 game while still retaining an edge on realism, is to make the game Germans VS Soviets, early in the war. I think any other theatre and any other stage of the war would be absolutely impossible to balance realistically.
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Why is it that...
The C96 Mauser (1896), which preceeded the Luger 08 (1908) which preceeded the P38 (1938), is more prevalent that either of its predessors???
I.e we have more C96 Mausers on the battlefield, which is the oldest of the sidearms in the game, than either the Luger 08 (non existant) or the P38?
The C96 was like an antique by 1941, only artillery officers may have chosen one as a novelty over the standardised Luger or P38.
I challenge anyone to find a pic on the net of a Wehrmacht soldier using a Mauser C96 - other than the image below.
Sturm
The C96 Mauser (1896), which preceeded the Luger 08 (1908) which preceeded the P38 (1938), is more prevalent that either of its predessors???
I.e we have more C96 Mausers on the battlefield, which is the oldest of the sidearms in the game, than either the Luger 08 (non existant) or the P38?
The C96 was like an antique by 1941, only artillery officers may have chosen one as a novelty over the standardised Luger or P38.
I challenge anyone to find a pic on the net of a Wehrmacht soldier using a Mauser C96 - other than the image below.
Sturm
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Here.
However, I do agree. I'd think that the Luger and Walther would be most of the sidearms you'd see from the German side.
However, I do agree. I'd think that the Luger and Walther would be most of the sidearms you'd see from the German side.
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Without a doubt these saw action in Stalingrad with the Whermacht:
G-41
MP-38/40/41
MG-34
K98K
Gew98M/98b
VERY FEW MG-42s (There was probably more G41s than MG42s)
P-38
P-08
Very unlikely the C96 was in Stalingrad. As the C96 was primarily used by the SS. The SS used older "recycled" and reworked small arms. Ex: Gew98M, Gew98m reworked to K98 Config, Czech Vz-24s, Beretta 38As, etc. No actual Waffen SS divisions did participate in the actual battle of Stalingrad. But I am almost positive that one division was used in the party far West of the battle that they intended to use to puncture the pocket after it was encircled.
After the battle of Stalingrad the SS did send the 1st Leibstandarte, 2nd Das Reich and 3rd SS Totenkopf divisions to stabilize the front in the southern sector. They were responsible for the retaking of Krakov.
Having the MKb42 in the game is unrealistic. They weren't at Stalingrad. Combat trails didn't start until 1943. The Mkb was simply too new to enter into service in time to see action at Stalingrad. The few Mkbs that were made were sent to the Wehrmacht Ordnance testing facility(s) in Germany.
The battle of Stalingrad was a logistical nightmare, the Wehrmacht had a horrible time trying to get food, medicine and ammunition the whole time they were there. Issuing a brand new weapon to soldiers already at Stalingrad is illogical. You would have to train them how to properly fire, field strip and maintain the weapon and the supply trains and columns and depots would have to supply them with the uncommon 7.92x33mm rounds. Not to mention the tools and spare parts the armorers would need in the case one needed repair. That 7.92x33mm round was even hard to get late in the war 44-45 for the MP/StG44s.
Why? Logistics. Logistics is main reason why the Germans Lost at Stalingrad.
With all that being said, I wont mind if theyres one or two per round. I can live with that. But IMO Id rather not see them at all...it ruins the "Immersion" for me.
G-41
MP-38/40/41
MG-34
K98K
Gew98M/98b
VERY FEW MG-42s (There was probably more G41s than MG42s)
P-38
P-08
Very unlikely the C96 was in Stalingrad. As the C96 was primarily used by the SS. The SS used older "recycled" and reworked small arms. Ex: Gew98M, Gew98m reworked to K98 Config, Czech Vz-24s, Beretta 38As, etc. No actual Waffen SS divisions did participate in the actual battle of Stalingrad. But I am almost positive that one division was used in the party far West of the battle that they intended to use to puncture the pocket after it was encircled.
After the battle of Stalingrad the SS did send the 1st Leibstandarte, 2nd Das Reich and 3rd SS Totenkopf divisions to stabilize the front in the southern sector. They were responsible for the retaking of Krakov.
Having the MKb42 in the game is unrealistic. They weren't at Stalingrad. Combat trails didn't start until 1943. The Mkb was simply too new to enter into service in time to see action at Stalingrad. The few Mkbs that were made were sent to the Wehrmacht Ordnance testing facility(s) in Germany.
The battle of Stalingrad was a logistical nightmare, the Wehrmacht had a horrible time trying to get food, medicine and ammunition the whole time they were there. Issuing a brand new weapon to soldiers already at Stalingrad is illogical. You would have to train them how to properly fire, field strip and maintain the weapon and the supply trains and columns and depots would have to supply them with the uncommon 7.92x33mm rounds. Not to mention the tools and spare parts the armorers would need in the case one needed repair. That 7.92x33mm round was even hard to get late in the war 44-45 for the MP/StG44s.
Why? Logistics. Logistics is main reason why the Germans Lost at Stalingrad.
With all that being said, I wont mind if theyres one or two per round. I can live with that. But IMO Id rather not see them at all...it ruins the "Immersion" for me.
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I want the luger
Edit: what about the walther PPK? they were also used in WW2 no?
i don't think any military's used it. i have always viewed it as a spy's pistol.
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The Walther PPK, I think was more of an High Ranking Officer sidearm. If I remember the PPK was officially replaced by the Luger and P38 so maybe only people who would have the PPK were the Officers who were High ranks before the Luger and P38 replaced it.
This is kinda based off Opinion and little knowledge. Don't eat me for it if it's not true
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I'm afraid not. There is no such thing as a broomhandle variant. All Mauser C96's were nicknamed the 'Broomhandle' in English, because of the shape of the pistol grip apparently.
The stock you see is actually the holster. It is common to all the C96 variants. The pistol in that photo is actually the M712, which is a fully Automatic version of the Mauser C96 manufactured between the war with a 20 round detachable box magazine.
The most common variants of the Mauser C96 are:
Mauser C96, a Commerically produced weapon, 7.62mm
"Red 9", The only model adopted by a millitary, the German Army in WW1 ordered 150,000 C96's in 9mm Parabellum
"Bolo", named after Bolshevik, these were a short barrel version the majority exported to Russia during the Civil War
"M712", The 20 round automatic version of the C96
"Hanyang C96", a Chinese copy
There's many many variants but those are the most procued one.
Also someone posited that they challenged us to show you a picture of someone using a C96 in WW2. Well i see your challenge and raise you 3 Pictures. Plus the one we have seen before
2 Heer, 2 SS. Hell finding pictures of anyone using Pistols i a combat situation is rare. 
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You haven't read the entire thread have you.
It's been established already that some MG42's were most likely in Stalingrad. We did this discussion two days ago. lol
And although some evidence seems to suggest a few were there, I'm still skeptical; putting on my historian cap, despite the conversation, there still isn't any actual evidence on this thread or that I have been able to find that is academically verifiable that the MG42 or the MkB42 were there.
It is entirely likely it seems, but where is the proof of a verified, dated document that matches a units presence in Stalingrad during the scope of time the game encompasses?
(I think this is one of the reasons I love Red Orchestra, it makes the history an actual challenge to figure out accurately and interesting rather than just scholarly routine.)
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