Low violence version

[Damo]

Nah you read me wrong. I don't want to buy a CENSORED game. I'm still buying HOS, just don't want to buy a censored version. It's not just about missing out on the gore. I'm in my late 20's and shouldn't be told what I can and can't see on my PC screen (within reason) by a bunch of stuffy old rich people...

Fair enough mate, for the record I do agree with you.

 

[WiFiDi]

it even says in the faqs that the German versions will probably not have dismemberment but hopefully that's all. then there's the fact that someone else can buy the game for you and gift it to you and you will get the uncensored version. if they live outside of Germany.

 

[Richard_B.]

For reference: http://www.heroesofstalingrad.com/faq/germany/[url]http://www.heroesofstalingrad.com/faq/germany/[/URL]

Enjoy.

Does that mean you already removed dismemberment before sending HoS to the USK or does it mean that you will try to get it through unchanged and only do cuts (primarily dismemberments) if it does not get through uncut?

By the way, Rage just recieved an 18+-rating - and as far as I know, it does feature dismemberment. Would be nice if you would try to get it through uncut before you make any changes.

 

[Ragnarök]

Those are good news for adults, who whish to decide on their own what's good for them.



Finally steam got some sense, because I used to buy games in England and Austria, which then were cut as soon as I installed them at home in Germany.
I also purchased an Austrian retail uncut RO 1 version back then, but steam recognised my German IP and switched it to the cut version.

This time I can evade the retarded restrictions of the nanny state that is Germany concerning virtual violence. Gladly I've got some mates living abroad, who can gift it to me via steam.

Thanks for making this possible!

 

[koschi]

For reference: http://www.heroesofstalingrad.com/faq/germany/http://www.heroesofstalingrad.com/faq/germany/

Enjoy.

thank you very much as long as it will be like the german ostfront version i am fine (but no blood at all would kill a bit of the game for me) i dont care much for flying arms and stuff.... exept in killing floor


tripwire i love you <3

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

But I still don't get the thing with the bloody IP's. If I buy it from UK will the game still be cut because I download it with a german IP?...

It is where you BUY it, not where you download.

Could you make an official statement for the german version in german language as well, sas to link it more easily in our forum for the members that cannot read english very well?

Or did I miss a switch language button on that website?

Also as an information, the USK has released german statements about their rating system, which might interest you.
http://www.usk.de/fileadmin/documents/2011-06-27_Leitkriterien_USK.pdf

Short summary would be that they have an issue with the visualization of bullet impact effects on human targets. See point 4.9 and 4.10 specifically. 4.9 is about the nature of bullet wound effects, while 4.10 details the points about the area in which the violence might occur, like in recognizable areas like playgrounds, schools, libraries, marketplaces....or unrecognizable areas like a war torn zone, batlefield, spaceship and so on. However they said realistic weaponry and environemnt, sounds etc. are also a cause for possible problems. But that doesn't seem to be a major issue

Firstly - if someone can translate that page into German for me, very handy... and interesting new doc from USK. Hadn't seen it (and I don't speak anything like enough German). I hope they do a translation for it!

Does that mean you already removed dismemberment before sending HoS to the USK or does it mean that you will try to get it through unchanged and only do cuts (primarily dismemberments) if it does not get through uncut?

By the way, Rage just recieved an 18+-rating - and as far as I know, it does feature dismemberment. Would be nice if you would try to get it through uncut before you make any changes.

Realistic environment + realistic people + WWII + dismemberment = too much in one go. We'll be submitting (on the advise of the German distributor) without dismemberment. But what does that new USK doc say about it?

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Having skimmed through the document, your assessment of

Realistic environment + realistic people + WWII + dismemberment = too much in one go

is quite accurate. It basically says that the USK looks for realism both graphically and in the setting, gore, the atmosphere, if violence is the only means to achieve goals and some other things.

It doesn't give accurate guidilines though, the ones mentioned in that document are very general, so it's down to the personal opinions of the rating board members.

But as I gather, the best way is as you did: submitting the uncut game and then asking them what should be changed to get the target rating.

But there has been a change in recent years, I think. While in the nineties and early 2000s, every red pixel was counted, nowadays, they tend to be more context oriented at the USK. So you might actually get away (meaning, getting an 18+ rating rather than being indexed) with a lot of gore, if it isn't glorified (as in slow-mos of dismemberments) or actively encouraged (by bonus points or announcers etc.).

 

[Dr.Phibes]

But as I gather, the best way is as you did: submitting the uncut game and then asking them what should be changed to get the target rating.

Didn't he say they submitted it without dismemberment?

 

[Richard_B.]

Realistic environment + realistic people + WWII + dismemberment = too much in one go. We'll be submitting (on the advise of the German distributor) without dismemberment. But what does that new USK doc say about it?

Hm, that's a bit sad, I really hoped you'd try to get it through uncut.
However, AFAIK it costs some moeny to get your game rated, so this is somewhat understandable.
Maybe I should get the ROW version...hm, just three quick questions concerning the ROW version and Germany:

• Can I play the ROW version in German?
• What is with DLC/Addon(Rising Storm)? If I get the ROW version, do I have to get DLCs and Rising Storm gifted, too?
• I do get the preorder bonuses when getting gifted the ROW version, do I?

Anyway, thank you for your answer, Wilsonam.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Realistic environment + realistic people + WWII + dismemberment = too much in one go. We'll be submitting (on the advise of the German distributor) without dismemberment. But what does that new USK doc say about it?

Is there any way you would let me know who is distributing the game over here?

 

[Freezy]

bummer to hear you didn't try to get it trough uncut, Gears of War 3 got a 18+ rating and you can rip peoples arms off and crush their skulls with your boots, I don't know how RO 2 could be considered more violent than GoW 3.

If you get 18+ with the current cuts, will give it another try with an uncut version or just be happy with it?

 

[MeFirst]

Gears Of War 3 in germany might went trough uncut because after what I have seen from the game yet you main enemy in the game are some other monsters that actually look less humanoid.

 

[Freezy]

but in the multiplayer you can play as the monsters and tear apart the humans, maybe Microsoft just handed over enough dosh to the USK, like EA did for Dead Space 1 & 2.^^

 

[Dr.Phibes]

but in the multiplayer you can play as the monsters and tear apart the humans, maybe Microsoft just handed over enough dosh to the USK, like EA did for Dead Space 1 & 2.^^

Realistic environment + realistic people + WWII + dismemberment = too much in one go. We'll be submitting (on the advise of the German distributor) without dismemberment. But what does that new USK doc say about it?

May sound stupid, but this is the way it is. It's the context of the game that doesn't allow it to be left uncut

 

[gusone]

If blood 'n guts is such a game breaker.....

Buy Vyprvpn here https://www.goldenfrog.com/vyprvpn/buy-personal-vpn-service

Connect to UK IP
Buy RO2 from Steam

Cancel Vyprvpn (or not it is rather excellent and means I can watch 'That Metal Show' on VH1 with a LA IP for example)

Download game from Steam as Wilson says it's where you buy the game and not download it.

 

[Seethus]

dont worry devs Im sure the uncut version will pass MA15+ in Australia

after all, Dead island recently passed, along with AVP and other much more violent games.
The only reason why L4D2 was banned was because the zombies were "infected" humans. Seriously

 

[UsF]

That is against the Steam ToS and I think you should probably remove it, since it might cause trouble for you? I am not sure.

Getting it gifted from outside Germany is legal, however using a Proxy appereantly not.

 

[Baine]

Gonna wait with my purchase until i know for sure that buying a boxed copy from somewhere outside germany will work as uncut version.

 

[Sunshine]

Firstly - if someone can translate that page into German for me, very handy... and interesting new doc from USK. Hadn't seen it (and I don't speak anything like enough German). I hope they do a translation for it!

Ok, I've done a quick translation (see the file I've hopefully managed to attach). I've tried to stay as close to your text as possible, even if the resulting German is not up to literary standards as a result . Note that I've used the formal "Sie" for "you", even if many German publishers seem to think it's more hip to use the informal "Du". Also, perhaps some of the other German speakers on this forum could have I quick look to see if I mangled something up badly.

Realistic environment + realistic people + WWII + dismemberment = too much in one go. We'll be submitting (on the advise of the German distributor) without dismemberment. But what does that new USK doc say about it?

Since the document is longish and written in the kind of pseudo-intellectual gibberish I detest, I'm just going to skim the thing and translate what I think are the most relevant points.

The first part of the document defines the basis why they are rating games in the first place (to determine its "Wirkungsmacht", i.e. the strength of its impact, and how damaging it is to teenagers).

Page 12, bottom: "Further relevant factors are the challenges and missions within the game: in which way can game objectives be reached ? Are there non-violent solutions ? If objectives can be reached non-violently (for instance through sneaking, communication or stealthy infiltration), this can be taken into perspective in terms of its sphere of influence of a game. Furthermore, it should be determined how the actual goal of the game and individual objectives during the game are set, for instance it is important which role the player takes when controlling his avatar: is it the side of good or evil, are the sides mixed, are actions required that are considered criminal in real life or can/must the player control his avatar in a way that uninvolved bystanders are attacked without consequences ?"

(Sorry for the horrible translation, but the German doesn't make much more sense either).

Page 16, bottom: "4.9 Violence

For the rating the context (in time and space) and the type of violence according to the genre must be taken into account, as well as the determination if - and if, through what - violence seems the only way for conflict solving. Also considered should be a possible medial giving of meaning of violent content, for example due to identified problematization, trivialization or idealization. "

(No, I have no clue what they're talking about either).

Page 17, top: "For assessing the effect of the power of violence the visualization and primarily hit the visualization plays a central role. This can be implemented in a variety of graphic styles, from comic-like abstract to highly realistic. Are the results of violence implemented in detail and include the display of blood and the results of injury (for example wounds, burns, acoustic indication of bones breaking, etc.) or even the possibility to dismember enemies or similar drastic visualization, then this is of heightened importance when determining impairment or even endangerment."

Page 17 bottom and 18, top: "The more realistic the political conflict, the weapons used, the acoustic implementation or the identifiably as people of the actors, the more readily impairments or even endangerments have to be assumed. Also, a direkt connection to a current or historic real war scenario which is implemented in a realistic audiovisual way (e.g. in a first person shooter with very direct connection to the action) is to be taken into account for the rating. This is especially important if there is a tight battle atmosphere or a high degree of immersion."

The remaining points address a sense of dread in games targeted specifically at children, sexual content, discrimination, excessive vulgarity and drug use, which I assume are irrelevant for RO2.

Bottom line:

Realistic environment + realistic people + WWII + dismemberment = too much in one go.

seems spot on, and the document itself doesn't really give you any more concrete reference points on what needs to be cut and what can stay in - it's basically at the discretion of whoever rates the game and how he/she interprets the 20 pages of gibberish.

I guess I'll buy the game via Amazon in the UK - I can live without seeing people blown into pieces by grenades, but I do want to see if and where I hit someone, and I wouldn't be surprised if you have to cut/nerf that too.

P.S.: Regarding you FAQ, as far as I know, if you buy goods by mail order within the EU, the sales tax of the buyer's country is collected and forwarded to the respective government by the merchant, so "voting with your wallet" is only possible when buying from outside the EU (and then avoiding customs).

 

[Stephen]

How easy is it to remove stuff like dismemberment? Is it just a case of tweaking a few options or would it require a partial rewrite of the game?