For me it's 3 maps, and the fear of losing my progress. There's only so long I can play the same 3 maps before burning out. It doesn't matter how solid the actual game is. Without variety I simply lose interest quick.
losing interest
- Thread starter superkiller
- Start date
For me it's 3 maps, and the fear of losing my progress. There's only so long I can play the same 3 maps before burning out. It doesn't matter how solid the actual game is. Without variety I simply lose interest quick.
Well apparently some people can placate their boredom perfectly fine by arguing points nobody makes just for the sake of it. No idea where you keep pulling all this crap from but people on this forum have been very specific about what they want an answer for.
A little feedback on the big issues that come up during EA isn't too much to ask and I am sure there is somebody on that team of 55 programming experts who can find the time every now and then. What these issues are is no mystery.
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The progress will be lost multiple times throughout and I'm okay with that, simply because the game isn't finalized and if they make perk changes they're going to want you to go start from level 0 again and see what you think of the perk changes and how it effects early game, mid game and endgame.
The community has found a lot of bugs from hardware, software issues, actual game breaking glitches (HSG Jumping to unreachable areas in the map, map locations that prevent ZEDs from reaching you) to AI abusal (most of the stuff I've found).
But from gameplay the community have found the current endgame meta (AA12 medics), feedback about what's good and what's not in terms of perks/perk skills/ZED design, difficulty balance, weapon utility.
Lastly there are folks that have found numerical data on the game and share it. This was really important to me because without this I probably would have abandoned playing Zerker and gone with medic myself. At the same time, I would have also abandoned a good third of important gameplay mechanics that I would have never thought about (stumble locks) and also the knockdown mechanic when it gets implemented. It really forced me to consider some of the perk skills of the zerker tree since now both sides minus level 5 look equally appealing.
There's still a ton of stuff to explore outside of just clearing the maps and getting angry at pubs that join HoE games as a level 0. That's probably the biggest thing that keeps me interested in the game.
Yeah, I liked firefall, but the gameplay and weak weapons got stale fast. After I watched a bandit take 20 minigun headshots and still stand, it got pretty stale. That game has a lot of potential, but the enemies and gunplay are boring as hell.
Oh I'm not bored. I'm just sick to ****ing death of the entitlement parts of these forums carry around sometimes.
And as for the forum being specific about what they want? BS. They want someone to acknowledge their whine, it doesn't matter what that whine is. They want an answer on Clot Grab, despite TWI's answer probably satisfying no one and just giving them quotes to ***** about. They want an answer on Scrakes, despite that answer probably getting them response of "You don't understand my game!"
You say a little feedback. You got "a little feedback" when they very clearly said they hear the community about berzerker issues.
You don't want a little feedback. You want someone with the ability to make changes to debate you until you're satisfied. MY CUSTOMERS do that to me all the time, and they're actually paying a service charge for the privilege. It is an utter waste of a developer's time to respond continually to every $30 purchaser who suddenly needs to be treated like they're the center of the world. There are thousands of such types, and satisfying one does not satisfy the rest. My whole job is shielding my developers from customers who want to monopolize their time because they feel they're "owed it." I sit around and listen to *****ing like this so I can take the (condensed and bull****-free) conversations to my devs so they have something to work on, instead of spending their time on a phone going "Yes, yes, you're a valued customer and your opinion is very important to us."
Like I said, they could hire a community manager to full time sit around the forums and debate you ad nauseam. That might be a move in the right direction. (Although a community manager constantly going to the devs to ask what they can say is yet more distractions.)
But expecting the people doing the work to continually make the rounds in the forums and give you (your completely arbitrary) level of feedback you want is not reasonable. "What we're up to" is your feedback. If bi-weekly or monthly isn't enough for you, plus whatever else they say, maybe you need to walk away.
Maybe I'm just old enough to remember a time when you never even spoke to the people making your games.
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I see. Stop dragging your anger about your messed up job to this forum then. You way overshot the mark here.
What you essentially say is screw EA because community feedback is nothing but worthless whine. Everyone on this forum is just an imature child. Then you tell me you know better what I want than I do and call me entitled for it afterwards.
You don't even have a point - only your anger that you project onto me for some reason.
This is the only important issue they gave "feedback" on and I wouldn't call their response anything but a platitude:
I don't want to impose my opinion of berserker on them just because I want a little insight in what they think is wrong with it and what solutions they have in mind or where they want to go with the perk from here.
Your job as an EA participant is to express your opinion. Their job is to read them, and factor them into their decision making. That's fine.
It becomes childish and immature when you start demanding someone come and start having a back and forth with you, as though its your right as a consumer. That's not part of the deal. It's great when it happens, when they have time. It's not daily requirement by a long shot.
Having an opinion and stating it is fine. Criticizing Tripwire because they aren't making the time to spell out exactly where their internal debate is (if it has even has gotten anywhere) IS immature.
This is the role of a community manager. To gather the thoughts of the devs and have a dialog with fans on their behalf. They don't have a full time community manager. And even if they did, I believe there is a limit to how much of a debate you can have with players.
And let's cut to the chase here: a lot of TWI fans are nasty to them. They're abusive, rude, they exaggerate like crazy and they act as though KF is their's, not the guys who made. I don't blame TWI for not engaging the community more. They get nothing out of it except grief.
It's a tech job, just like any other. And the parallels to dealing with customers are valid regardless.
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I was talking more about their dev cycle, but yeah, core gameplay never really evolved from its original oddity.
Their lead developer ran them through hoops and made absurd demands, impossible suggestions, and then threw out all the work they did without warning. Ultimately it made two years of their open beta produce practically no changes in the game, despite burning through a monumental investment. When he was finally fired the studio started producing content at a rate that was monumental compared to their previous speed, but ultimately it never will reach the original goal, and the spark was lost for me a long time ago.
Soo... here's to KF never falling into that. I call a toast to Tripwire, and an appreciation for what they've done so far. Bravo!
Carry on.
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Especially the parallels with angry customers apparently, which I am not.
I love KF1 and KF2. I already played KF2 for more than 100 hours and have no intention of stopping soon. Perk resets? No big deal in the big picture. It takes a long time to develop content? Duh! Skill balance is a mess? Won't be forever.
All I do is to wish for more reaction on the big issues than [none] until maybe it gets addressed in a patch months later.
I don't have an issue with the time it takes them to fix it or the way they will eventually decide to fix it, but with the fact that providing them feedback currently feels like throwing mud against a wall.
It's also not about -and it's stupid that I even have to underline this for you- the glory of being the one who gave them worthwile feedback but merely about knowing what is going on? Is it even an issue for them? Do they want feedback on this in the first place?
I realize they can roll without us knowing that perfectly fine but imo EA should encompass better communication than a one-sided guessfest about what's on their mind.
Not being allowed to be part of their development-process except for (happily) swallowing it's eventual results -if anything- makes me feel treated as a child. Of course, it can never be an eye to eye communication but if that: >silently accepting the results regardless of any community feedback< is what I am supposed to do then why even have EA in the first place?
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Posting in this thread just to say wow... How ****ing dare you.
He's saying to have reasonable expectations. A dev would basically have to be responding in their free time, when they're at home, to be able to put in enough effort into their discussion to have it be worthwhile and not be a canned "Thanks for your suggestion" response. Their job at TW is to work on the game, not talk about it and have it not interfere with their work. They would firstly have to want to do that instead of just reading feedback and taking it into account without responding, but the news post is proofread by staff and is already approved for what can be revealed, anyway.
So asking them to provide any more information about the development process during EA than "lots of stuff coming soon" is unreasonable? I give up -_-
I'm surprised you don't urge them to stop their biweekly "what we are up to" altogether since it is apparently neither thier job nor possible to actualize in their spare time.
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No, what he is saying is that your not such an important person that you should get a direct line to the devs whenever you want to ask a question abuout every little thing or give them an idea that you think is the "coolest and most awesome thing ever!".
In other words, your not that special.
What I was mostly saying is assuming the awful job thing was ****ing disgusting.
Yea, sorry, got a little carried away. Sort of what i was trying to say since i don't know of any other game dev that does what he is claiming in regards to "personally replying to every thread and idea" beyond replying to the big issues that get a lot of attention.
I do what? When did I ask for a personal line or to be something special? wtf is my english really that bad??
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I've seen enough of these types of threads across multiple game forums to know that they never actually improve player-Dev relationships. If you push the devs enough they might throw you a bone now, but they won't make a habit of it for the future. What typically happens is they don't provide-probably because whatever is stopping them from doing so in the first place hasn't changed just because threads have been made-the community then expresses anger, and the relationship ultimately suffers.
Just like any other relationship in anything ever between two entities, some parties are just better at communication than others, and no amount of pressure will change that. 2cents.
Just like any other relationship in anything ever between two entities, some parties are just better at communication than others, and no amount of pressure will change that. 2cents.
To be fair, companies like Cloud Imperium of Star Citizen do a pretty fantastic job of showing off the ins and outs of their studios, progress reports, and other community handling, all on a continuous basis... in other words, doing exactly what some people here are asking for.
It sets an impossible standard, though, because with all of their money and with all of their dev houses, progress is made fast enough to have something significant to show regularly, and reports are such a boost to their sales that they can hire a full time team just to make them look good to the community.
It's just frankly absurd to ask for that from anyone with less than 'Chris Roberts' levels of funding and showmanship.
It sets an impossible standard, though, because with all of their money and with all of their dev houses, progress is made fast enough to have something significant to show regularly, and reports are such a boost to their sales that they can hire a full time team just to make them look good to the community.
It's just frankly absurd to ask for that from anyone with less than 'Chris Roberts' levels of funding and showmanship.
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