losing interest

[poosh]

I love TWI and KF2 but this ISN'T how "EA should be done".
Ea should have been release with atleast the 6 original perks and atleast 5 or 6 maps.
First there should have been many closed-betas (all the people who don't get into closed-beta and crying about it would be a GREAT hype-creating thing, not a problem) to get all the feedback about ridiculous sponging of Scrake and FP etc and then actually use that feedback before Open Beta begins.
Then have open-betas for more feedback before Early-Access begins.
Then release Early-Access with atleast a KF1 amount of release content.

I disagree. They released a stable, playable and highly enjoyable game build at April 21st. Game was fully ready for EA imo. Problem is that nothing has been changed since then (except TWI broke 7+ servers, which in turn alienated even more players). We have no idea what devs have been done during last month and what they are currently doing. All we've got during last month are just 4 screenshots. I think Tripwire overestimated "keeping players on hype" technique. People just got bored and pissed off.

 

[superkiller]

I disagree. They released a stable, playable and highly enjoyable game build at April 21st. Game was fully ready for EA imo. Problem is that nothing has been changed since then (except TWI broke 7+ servers, which in turn alienated even more players). We have no idea what devs have been done during last month and what they are currently doing. All we've got during last month are just 4 screenshots. I think Tripwire overestimated "keeping players on hype" technique. People just got bored and pissed off.

pretty much

 

[rckrdude]

I agree about the devs needing to communicate better. Yes, the game is good by EA standards but the communication with the community is sub par to say the least. Also, a month in EA is too long to go without any content updates.

 

[Nenjin]

I kindda agree. I can understand that major patches request a lot work and testing. Same as high-quality map development. So I'm ready to wait more.

But Tripwire's communication on forums isn't good for Early Access imo. I'm not saying that devs should reply in every stupid thread. But, for example, look into Bug Sections. First 5 pages with no developer comments at all. People are spending their time on giving feedback (for free btw), but devs can't spend just a few seconds to say "thanks for the feedback", "we looking towards it" etc. However, some of TWI guys can find spare time to post uselsess funny or trolling post on the forums.

I don't see devs in other forums responding to every bug report with "thanks for reporting." That's sort of a useless standard of communication. I'd rather have someone doing work than copy/pasting a statement into hundreds of threads. It does nothing other than placate people's perception that they deserve special attention.

I rank people getting pissed because no dev commented on their bug report to be about the same thing as someone posting a thread here in GD, calling out the devs, and getting pissed because they're not getting a response.

Put another way, dev post markers are useless when every thread has one, and the content of the message means **** all. All they do is placate people's ego, and that's useless waste of a developer's time. It was nice when Shuu was commenting on bug reports to say thanks in the beginning, but it is not a requirement for a good developer.

Especially when people can't use the forum search feature to save their freakin' lives.

 

[superkiller]

I agree about the devs needing to communicate better. Yes, the game is good by EA standards but the communication with the community is sub par to say the least. Also, a month in EA is too long to go without any content updates.

with such complex coding and excellent graphics, I can see why there hasn't been any new maps or updates yet,wich I can be patient on that issue , as far as the dev communication is terrible. like I've said there are many repetitive posts in the bug report, I mean are they working on the num. pad bind issue , or any of the other same issue posts. do they even care about these bug posts, please don't let us feel like are time is being wasted here.

 

[Kazzerax]

It's a complete game you loser, it just needs balance and exploit changes and the rest of it's content. It's also only $30, so you're probably just some kid without a job.

A complete game HAS all of it's content, is already balanced, and has exploits fixed. That's like saying a complete breakfast includes orange trees that just need to be picked and juiced, wheat that just needs to be processed so you can make toast, and some baby pigs that just need to be raised and slaughtered to make the bacon. Also, being a kid without a job has literally no bearing on whether or not someone's statements are true or false. Attack the man's arguments, not the man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

[superkiller]

I don't see devs in other forums responding to every bug report with "thanks for reporting." That's sort of a useless standard of communication. I'd rather have someone doing work than copy/pasting a statement into hundreds of threads. It does nothing other than placate people's perception that they deserve special attention.

I rank people getting pissed because no dev commented on their bug report to be about the same thing as someone posting a thread here in GD, calling out the devs, and getting pissed because they're not getting a response.

Put another way, dev post markers are useless when every thread has one, and the content of the message means **** all. All they do is placate people's ego, and that's useless waste of a developer's time. It was nice when Shuu was commenting on bug reports to say thanks in the beginning, but it is not a requirement for a good developer.

Especially when people can't use the forum search feature to save their freakin' lives.

you do have a News And Announcements section that is very stagnant

 

[Escadin]

I don't see devs in other forums responding to every bug report with "thanks for reporting." That's sort of a useless standard of communication. I'd rather have someone doing work than copy/pasting a statement into hundreds of threads. It does nothing other than placate people's perception that they deserve special attention.

I rank people getting pissed because no dev commented on their bug report to be about the same thing as someone posting a thread here in GD, calling out the devs, and getting pissed because they're not getting a response.

Put another way, dev post markers are useless when every thread has one, and the content of the message means **** all. All they do is placate people's ego, and that's useless waste of a developer's time. It was nice when Shuu was commenting on bug reports to say thanks in the beginning, but it is not a requirement for a good developer.

Especially when people can't use the forum search feature to save their freakin' lives.

For starters, Obsidian and Amplitude respond to bug reports, especially if they appear to be urgent because they get reports of the same bug form all sides (affects a lot of people) or the bug is gamebreaking.

They don't have to thank the user for his/her report (although those two devs do) but there is nothing wrong with confirming the report - especially when it seems to be an important one.

How else are we supposed to know they even recognize it as an issue? Waiting for it to get fixed may take months.

 

[Nenjin]

you do have a News And Announcements section that is very stagnant

What do you need, daily progress reports? They already do the "What are we up to" posts.

How else are we supposed to know they even recognize it as an issue? Waiting for it to get fixed may take months.

How does them acknowledging the bug report have anything to do with how long it takes to fix? Do you want a developer to come to every bug report and go "We estimate it will take 6 weeks to fix, assuming we can troubleshoot the memory leak"?

I work in software. I take bug reports and I respond to them, for people that are in actual business using our software.

So by comparison, gamers wanting to know if their pet peeve is going to be fixed and getting salty because a developer doesn't personally take time out of their schedule to pat their head, need to get a grip.

 

[z00p]

Oh my. The wolves are becoming restless. They must feed. Give them meat, Tripwire, else they feed on each other!

 

[BillyBob2]

most real companies don't have an early release , this company wants all of you to be their game testers for free.


Next I have seen a lot of people posting in the bug report, with no acknowledgment of their hard earned work , as a free employee I want a report ; am I clear. I want weekly posts from Tripwire on what they are working on , and bug fixes.

Not sure what you mean by real companies, but Tripwire Interactive is a real company I assure you. Listen you are getting the game for 29.99 it is very playable and they will be adding more content. Tripwire has a history of being ethical with its customers (Killing Floor) unlike many of the "Real Companies"(I could name more than a few for you) you are referring to. This is a very solid company, I don't even understand the complaint. You knew upfront it was early access, why did you buy it? This game is smooth for an EA title anyway. Tripwire is a small independent company, the best kind of company IMO. Hey enjoy your day though, and enjoy the content that is going to be pumped out.

 

[Escadin]

What do you need, daily progress reports? They already do the "What are we up to" posts.

How does them acknowledging the bug report have anything to do with how long it takes to fix? Do you want a developer to come to every bug report and go "We estimate it will take 6 weeks to fix, assuming we can troubleshoot the memory leak"?

I work in software. I take bug reports and I respond to them, for people that are in actual business using our software.

So by comparison, gamers wanting to know if their pet peeve is going to be fixed and getting salty because a developer doesn't personally take time out of their schedule to pat their head, need to get a grip.

So if somebody gives you a call because something doesn't work you just silently hang up on them the second they stop explaining? No "Alright I'll see what I can do" or "I am already aware of that"? or any human reaction whatsoever? WTF

I guess talking to somebody is just redundant placebo for them. After all, they can tell somebody was listening because somebody must have picked up the phone or else it would still be ringing...


(see? I can throw hyperboles too)

 

[Comrade_Shaun]

It hasn't even been a month yet, maybe you should all calm down and start rioting tomorrow if Tripwire doesn't start to chrun out news / updates.

 

[Quintuplin]

I'm liking all these newbies to the 'early access' situation. Somehow they forget that games can take multiple years to develop, and instead focus on the individual days since the last update as if each one was a month.

And don't forget, this is tripwire we're talking about. The guys who kept the original KF alive for many years longer than most other devs would have let it die, with all free updates. How they stayed in business, I dunno, but it makes me confident that KF2 will have similar value over time.

And really, compare this to, say, Firefall's beta. A game with more promise and more waste I have never seen. Look into what happened with them for an idea of what a multi-year-beta trainwreck is. After that, you'll realize how well Tripwire is handling things. So far, at least.

Though they could use an official 'comminity manager' to help with the fans losing their minds.

 

[Nenjin]

So if somebody gives you a call because something doesn't work you just silently hang up on them the second they stop explaining? No "Alright I'll see what I can do" or "I am already aware of that"? or any human reaction whatsoever? WTF

When someone emails a bug, we typically file it immediately. We let the email bot handle the completely trivial 'Thank you for your bug report....." bit.

If that's what you really want, I'm sure a forum bot can be made to make a totally pointless platitude comment to every bug report thread. Because that's what you seem to want. The fact there's a written record of your bug on their forums doesn't seem to be enough to convince you they've seen it. You clearly need someone to pat your hand and go "Yes yes, we care so deeply about your bug report."

Several more points:

-Users don't ever freaking bother to add their bug report to an existing bug report. That makes responding to every individual bug report even more pointless.

-Not everything is a bug.

-Not every bug will get fixed.

-A crash on a least used piece of hardware will not get the attention a crash on a more widely used set of hardware will.

Maybe if TWI let people submit bug reports directly to their internal bug tracker, you would get the sort of routine automated response that lets you sleep at night. And I know of very, very, very few major dev houses that do that.

Or maybe they need to hire 5 people to run a tech support hotline for a video game. Wouldn't that be lovely. They can throw away money so you can hear "Thanks we hear you", and you guys can be abusive to them on the phone instead of on the forums.

 

[Maddoxx]

Like i also said before,,,i dont play much,,

Instead i installed KF1 again and am playing it...

Waiting for some new perk to easier deal with sc and fp...i dont like playing below HoE...

 

[Escadin]

When someone emails a bug, we typically file it immediately. We let the email bot handle the completely trivial 'Thank you for your bug report....." bit.

If that's what you really want, I'm sure a forum bot can be made to make a totally pointless platitude comment to every bug report thread. Because that's what you seem to want. The fact there's a written record of your bug on their forums doesn't seem to be enough to convince you they've seen it. You clearly need someone to pat your hand and go "Yes yes, we care so deeply about your bug report."

Several more points:

-Users don't ever freaking bother to add their bug report to an existing bug report. That makes responding to every individual bug report even more pointless.

-Not everything is a bug.

-Not every bug will get fixed.

-A crash on a least used piece of hardware will not get the attention a crash on a more widely used set of hardware will.

Maybe if TWI let people submit bug reports directly to their internal bug tracker, you would get the sort of routine automated response that lets you sleep at night. And I know of very, very, very few major dev houses that do that.

Or maybe they need to hire 5 people to run a tech support hotline for a video game. Wouldn't that be lovely. They can throw away money so you can hear "Thanks we hear you", and you guys can be abusive to them on the phone instead of on the forums.

Let me get this straight:
- People ask for more feedback in their communication with TWI, because it currently is very rudimentary. This feedback should include but not be limited to important issues such as widespread or severe bugs.

- Your response is it is impossible for them reply to every unimportant bit out there in a meaningful way, hence it is impossible to reply to a reasonable amount, a selection or very few at least as well.

Fine if that is your opinion. You shouldn't hope to convince anyone else of it though.

PS: Who doesn't like a pat on their head?

 

[-main-]

Oh come on, I am sure nobody meant these posts so seriously. We dont need daily reports, we dont need devs in every thread, thats the other side of extreme. No need for silence but also no need for pointless words. Lets stick in the middle.
Some of us were just saying that there could be more feedback on some issues/game features that seem important for gameplay. To know how devs feel about them and what they think is the way around them. Thats my point of view.

 

[q3.railgun]

92 hours in and I'm still finding new tricks, exploits, game mechanics and to top it off I've only really fully explored one perk. I can't picture why you're already bored with the game.

 

[Nenjin]

- Your response is it is impossible for them reply to every unimportant bit out there in a meaningful way, hence it is impossible to reply to a reasonable amount, a selection or very few at least as well.

They already reply to "a selection" or "very few" posts. Usually when it's a problem can solve immediately by giving an answer. Like:

Player: "my game crashes! *specs*"

Dev: "You're using an intel HD graphics chip, which we said wouldn't work."

Player: "Something in the game does X"

Dev: "That is categoically incorrect."

What. More. Do. You. Want. Do you want them to write novels about their thoughts on game design because a player thinks clot grab is "for the consoles"? Do you want them to do live tech support to trouble shoot people's bug reports?

You say you want "stuff" without actually specifying what "stuff" is, other than your general sense of dissatisfaction with what you're not getting, whatever that is.

Could they have a community manager to do all this dialog with players they feel like they're not getting? Absolutely. Maybe they should have one. Although **** if I know who would want to sign up to basically have the forum yell at them as their job. (This community is one of the most resentful of their devs I think I've ever seen, outside of your usual AAA forum troll fest.)

But expecting the guys writing code to take time out of their day to randomly reply to **** just so you feel like someone cares is not only unreasonable, it's a giant pain in the *** for them and is holding them to an arbitrary standard of communication. Like you literally want them to randomly reply to a selection of threads, which is pretty much the opposite of meaningful dialog.

Put another way: I'd rather have them spend their time working on the game than placating their fan's boredom and insecurity on the forums. Which is what all of this thread is.