Looks awesome from the preview!

[Bashenka]

I'm all for realism mode, but at the same time I do like my death messages. There's immediate satisfaction when you see that icon pop-up showing that you got a kill. It's ROst version of morale boost .

On the other hand I have no idea how I'd like it if there were no death messages. It could be great (since it'd add some cool worrying like, "did I get the kill? Or is that German still there waiting for me?"), but then again it could just be less fun overall, since people wouldn't get 100% gratification from a kill.

This is something low on my priority list, but I'd still be interested if Tripwire decided to test it out in their Beta.

 

[Zetsumei]

personally i would like to get all kills including your own with distances after you died. So if you tried to kill someone really far away you know in the end ah i got him after all.

Ideally something could be find out that would maximize the fun with death messages, but still not take away from the tension of did I kill him or not.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

I say client-side option. Do you want to see deathmessages you can turn them on, and if not you can turn them off.
I can't really see a downside.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

personally i would like to get all kills including your own with distances after you died. So if you tried to kill someone really far away you know in the end ah i got him after all.

your wish is partly already granted according to the gamescon videos.....the distance from which you make a kill is displayed, but not the distance you were killed from.

 

[Zetsumei]

It doesn't really show what I suggested or wanted :\, that video is closer to the opposite of what I would like to see.

In that video it only shows your own kills, so it doesn't have the fun factor of death messages. Where you can applaud for someone taking down a half-track full of enemies.

And next to that it shows my only issue with death messages that it gives you an instant confirmation whether you hit someone or not. So in my eyes it got the negative part of death messages but lacks the positive part that death messages can have.

I'm happy though that it doesn't seem to show the kill distances of other players their kills though, because otherwise someone that got killed could see the enemy was 10 meters away from me, so he's at position X.

Personally my point is if you can see immediately whether or not you killed someone (including when you shot someone through a wall or whatever). You might as well just see every other kill by everybody for the fun factor (but other kills without the distance).

The issue with immediately showing the kill distance as well, is that since you can set your sights now to different distances, if 2 enemies are at the same distance and you kill one, you can immediately set your sights to the correct distance, as you can simply read what distance it is.

---------

So my main point regarding death messages is ideally:

1. Not immediately telling you killed someone (and at what distance), so someone that fires through the walls of a building won't immediately get a confirmation that the coast is clear. And the same for long range snipers and rifleman, that they won't immediately get a confirmation they finally got the enemy sniper. Even a delay of 3 seconds or 5 seconds would be enough for the biggest part.

2. Allowing people to keep the fun aspects, of knowing who you killed and how many times, who kills you the most (perhaps rather than using death messages stuff could be showed in the scoreboard).

3. If death messages can be disabled on a server, the scoreboard should only update when you die or when the round is over (or at set intervals), so you cannot deduct you killed someone by getting a +1 score.

 

[Mr Milkman]

It doesn't really show what I suggested or wanted :\, that video is closer to the opposite of what I would like to see.

In that video it only shows your own kills, so it doesn't have the fun factor of death messages. Where you can applaud for someone taking down a half-track full of enemies.

And next to that it shows my only issue with death messages that it gives you an instant confirmation whether you hit someone or not. So in my eyes it got the negative part of death messages but lacks the positive part that death messages can have.

I'm happy though that it doesn't seem to show the kill distances of other players their kills though, because otherwise someone that got killed could see the enemy was 10 meters away from me, so he's at position X.

Personally my point is if you can see immediately whether or not you killed someone (including when you shot someone through a wall or whatever). You might as well just see every other kill by everybody for the fun factor (but other kills without the distance).

The issue with immediately showing the kill distance as well, is that since you can set your sights now to different distances, if 2 enemies are at the same distance and you kill one, you can immediately set your sights to the correct distance, as you can simply read what distance it is.

---------

So my main point regarding death messages is ideally:

1. Not immediately telling you killed someone (and at what distance), so someone that fires through the walls of a building won't immediately get a confirmation that the coast is clear. And the same for long range snipers and rifleman, that they won't immediately get a confirmation they finally got the enemy sniper. Even a delay of 3 seconds or 5 seconds would be enough for the biggest part.

2. Allowing people to keep the fun aspects, of knowing who you killed and how many times, who kills you the most (perhaps rather than using death messages stuff could be showed in the scoreboard).

3. If death messages can be disabled on a server, the scoreboard should only update when you die or when the round is over (or at set intervals), so you cannot deduct you killed someone by getting a +1 score.

good ideas there, I hope they implement something like this, at least in hardcore mode.

 

[LionbI4]

Fully agree with Zets,
Death messages are very arcade and leads to unrealistic gameplay, specially with penetration system.
Imagine you just take cover inside small wooden booth and enemy MG spotted you. With death messages ON he will fire you to death (until he receives confirmation about successful kill).
Americas Army 3 has death messages OFF and is not configurable. You will figure out, who you shot only after round is ended.

 

[Capt.Cool]

personally i would like to get all kills including your own with distances after you died.

I agree with Zet too, but not wait to the end of the round is a bit lame, to see it after your own death is fair enough.

And btw, INSURGENCY got the same (deathmessage shown only after your death) but guess what happens?
Most servers overruled this feature and show the deathmeassages in the chatwindow.

So what do we learn from this?
Even if a game is realismbased, if the majority of the players (or at least the server owners) dont like it, they will change it.

I think for the HARDCORE mode this would be a nice feature, but not an important one.

 

[Zetsumei]

A lot of players that will play with realistic realism like the fun part of death messages, which is important to take into notion.

That's why I would want a system that tries to preserve the fun parts as much as possible. While trying to keep the insecurity in of "did I hit that sniper or not".

I think that a good compromise of both would work the best, like for instance having a 5 second delay on all death messages. Then people can see all death messages, but if they shot someone they don't know for 5 second if he can fire back. Which ain't ideal for either party but I think everybody could learn to live with that.

I say client-side option. Do you want to see deathmessages you can turn them on, and if not you can turn them off.
I can't really see a downside.

The issue is exactly that death messages can give you important information about whether or not you hit someone. So if death messages for example get sufficiently delayed then people turning them off will have no disadvantage.

But if death messages are updated instantly, then people with it removed. Some times keep looking thinking the enemy is perhaps still alive. And people with death messages on see that he's dead and immediately move on. Aka ideally I want that people can turn it on or off, without any mode having an advantage over the other.

 

[Makino]

They could do something like: if you deactivate death messages then your death won't appear for anyone except for you, even if the player who killed you has it activated. If you kill him, the message won't be appearing too since you chose to deactivate it.

But if a player with DM on kills another with DM on too, everyone will see the message.

It would be like a compromise, you can see mine if i can see yours. Dunno if it is doable or even made it clear but sounds fair to me.

 

[Zetsumei]

Although that system would be fair, it would be too confusing for a lot of people. As there would be no consistency in reporting death messages. Most people would then go and think that not seeing someone's death message is a bug.

 

[Makino]

Yeah, i know that the devs can't rely on informing/explaining this to the players, the majority will simply ignore it and will come to the forums ranting about a supposed "bug". That's how it happens.

 

[Capt.Cool]

if you deactivate death messages then your death won't appear for anyone except for you, even if the player who killed you has it activated. If you kill him, the message won't be appearing too since you chose to deactivate it.

But if a player with DM on kills another with DM on too, everyone will see the message.

thats a great idea!

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

It doesn't really show what I suggested or wanted :\, that video is closer to the opposite of what I would like to see.

huh? from the way that sentence was structured, it looked like you said you'd like to see it say at what distance you killed an enemy from....it shows that. ROPlayer ==> Player from 4.2m

did you mean that you'd only want to see all that after your death? so you kill 4 guys, no messages, then you die and what all 4 messages with distances comes up? like a "life" summary? this is what you did while you were alive......i guess that could be ok, but if it's a short respawn time and you killed 20 people, it could get cluttered and become more of an annoyance.

I'm happy though that it doesn't seem to show the kill distances of other players their kills though, because otherwise someone that got killed could see the enemy was 10 meters away from me, so he's at position X.

lol that's what i said. you only see distances for the kills you make.

The issue with immediately showing the kill distance as well, is that since you can set your sights now to different distances, if 2 enemies are at the same distance and you kill one, you can immediately set your sights to the correct distance, as you can simply read what distance it is.

but if you killed one, why would you need to adjust your sights since the shot hit? if they're right next to each other, just fire the same shot at the other guy and you should hit since you were right with the first shot.

anyway since default for ROOST was death messages on, i'd hope and expect that to be the default for HOS. of course people have valid reasons why not to have them, so serverside option to disable them should be a given to impliment. everybody happy!

 

[Zetsumei]

If you'd ask me I'd prefer there to be no notification of distance at all. I just stated it there to emphasize that the kill distance if it's there should only be there for your own kills and not when being killed (I stated it exactly because the kill distances are in).

The suggestion indeed was to only show your kills when you die. Screen clutter should generally not be an option either the amount could be limited, but when you're waiting to respawn screen clutter shouldn't matter too much.

So yeah basically seeing a short life's overview when you die.

 

[Floyd]

Why not just make it customizable? Let the server owner decide how he wants to run his server. He might choose, DMs or no DMs. Lots of info on death or sparse info. And also make it user selectable. If a player doesn't want DMs then he can turn them off on his screen, too (but only his screen, the rest is server based.)

We had mods for that in MoH and the first two CoD's. Some players loved it, some hated it. The end result was you were playing with people that liked what the server had to offer.

Floyd

 

[Zetsumei]

Everybody expects it to be customizable by the server, and hope that its possible to only update the scoreboard at death / end of round.

The debate is rather, what should be the default mode for the realistic realism mode. As the default in general will be seen on more servers.

 

[LionbI4]

I vote for instant death messages OFF by default for realistic realism.
Life overview screen is ON by default (appears only after death, during wait time).

 

[[TW]Ramm-Jaeger]

So whats with the "bot hate" I have seen a few messages where people are saying stuff like "the bots look stupid as usual". I'm not sure what you saw in the Gamescom shakeycam video that gave you that impression, but the bots are actually pretty darn good in ROHOS. Granted the Gamescom video was basically an alpha build, and there is a LOT more work that will be done on the AI before shipping.

I'll be the first person to admit the bots in RO:Ostfront were terrible - they were basically UT2k4 AI shoehorned to work for RO. But the AI in ROHOS has been written from scratch to be tactical shooter AI. They understand the tactical situation, can take cover, know if they have been flanked, will sometimes run away and hide when they are really injured, properly use iron sights, understand how to play the gametype, and more - all fully dynamic. The bots are so good, that often times in playtests we can't tell if we are fighting a human or an AI. By the time ROHOS ships, we should have some of the best AI you've seen in a tactical shooter. So please stop projecting the "bot hate" from RO:Ostfront onto ROHOS

 

[Uurastaja]

That's it, I'm sold.