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Localized damage, great! But...

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#21
Where did i say people should fly back. I'm just saying that different types of ammunition have different effects on the human body and with that different kinds of stopping power.

I mean they could give the same basic energy to a lower caliber weapon in rifles, such as the dutch used in 2nd world war with their 6.5mm caliber. The issue is that while the bullet is going really fast it goes in and out, without transferring all of its energy. You still die, due to internal bleeding or whatever, but you arent immediately out of action because of the lack of shock.

When assuming the bullet passes through nicely and doesnt thumble, bigger caliber rounds will transfer more of its kinetic energy while passing through the human body giving a bigger stomp initially. Not a stomp that flies people back, but a stomp that stops them from shooting back, due to the response of the body towards the hit.

If you get hit hard by a fast baseball you most likely get knocked back, yet probably wont die.
If you get hit with the same kinetic energy but in a much smaller spot, it will less likely knock you back while you're more likely to die because it passes through you and destroys things on its way.
 
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#23
I think people would be horrified by the general difference between what can kill people and what can stop them fighting. They are shocking separate from each other.

So long as seriously injured parties flinch and we have the possibility of instant and near-instant incapacitation, I'm all for more interesting and varied wounds.

Certainly having a second or two of rapidly fading sight in which to take a frantic last action wouldn't be too bad, and would probably discourage face-to-face combat as you'd be more likely to end up with both combatants wounded.
 
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#24
Eh... Allowing wounds and wounded to stay in the fight is a step in the wrong direction IMHO. A hit with a rifle round to any part of your body is likely to take you out of the fight. It destroys/messes up bones, vessels, tendons and muscle. You cant wield a bolt action with only one arm, a shot to the leg should put you on the ground at the least. A rifle round to the torso should put you on the ground an incapacitate you.
 
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#25
incapacitation = death, which means , Incapacitated dont fight, so for gameplay purposes, make them count as dead, or let the player model wounded on the ground, but the player himself respawns with a new avatar. nobody want to stare at the ceiling for 20 minutes

edit for bold an awesome idea i just had without realizing it and I don't think its done before
 
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#26
The problem is there is a spectrum of incapacitation. If you get shot in the leg, and get your Achilles tendon severed, you can't run/walk, and are incapacitated. But you should still be able to stay prone and sort of aim (while in a lot of pain, and probably a LOT less accurate). We seem to be OK with incapacitated tanks when a track is taken out. The whole tank doesn't die as long as players don't bail.

On the other side of the spectrum, a bullet to the spine below the neck will paralyze a player, and really incapacitate them.

So the middle of the spectrum is a bleed out type of hit where you will die, and loose motor control, but still have some gross control over your limbs, that gets worse as you get closer to death.

I don't see a problem with implementation of this, as it's more realistic, and will force players to act more like a real soldier, not Rambo's with insta-one-shot-kill, when the wounded soldier would still be dangerous in real life.
 
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#27
Mormegil said:
The problem is there is a spectrum of incapacitation. If you get shot in the leg, and get your Achilles tendon severed, you can't run/walk, and are incapacitated. But you should still be able to stay prone and sort of aim (while in a lot of pain, and probably a LOT less accurate). We seem to be OK with incapacitated tanks when a track is taken out. The whole tank doesn't die as long as players don't bail.

On the other side of the spectrum, a bullet to the spine below the neck will paralyze a player, and really incapacitate them.

So the middle of the spectrum is a bleed out type of hit where you will die, and loose motor control, but still have some gross control over your limbs, that gets worse as you get closer to death.

I don't see a problem with implementation of this, as it's more realistic, and will force players to act more like a real soldier, not Rambo's with insta-one-shot-kill, when the wounded soldier would still be dangerous in real life.
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if the player is incapacitated but alive and be able to shoot but unable to move, you can replace him with a bot in that moment, that acts like a low accuracy turret, that you can finish off if you see him, and if he is incapacitated and unable to shoot or anything, you could just have the animated model there until(if) someone finish him off.

Just to add variety and realism without making the gameplay frustrating by making the player having to play as a crippled
 
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#28
Fedorov said:
if the player is incapacitated but alive and be able to shoot but unable to move, you can replace him with a bot in that moment, that acts like a low accuracy turret, that you can finish off if you see him, and if he is incapacitated and unable to shoot or anything, you could just have the animated model there until(if) someone finish him off.

Just to add variety and realism without making the gameplay frustrating by making the player having to play as a crippled
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea.
 
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#29
Fedorov said:
incapacitation = death, which means , Incapacitated dont fight, so for gameplay purposes, make them count as dead, or let the player model wounded on the ground, but the player himself respawns with a new avatar. nobody want to stare at the ceiling for 20 minutes

edit for bold an awesome idea i just had without realizing it and I don't think its done before
Click to expand...

Incapacitation will be death but the question is will it be an instant death, not talking about letting someone walk and crawl while hes bleeding out.

I truly hope the system will be used to simulate stopping power, something that has never been done in a game. Usually stopping power simply means how much health a round draws away from you. But now it could mean the difference of someone hit immediately falling to the ground or someone being hit falling to the ground 2 seconds later.
 
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#31
The_Emperor said:
simply let them fall to the ground, just like if their leg(s) were hit by one shot and and a strong blurring to the view of the player. I'm not too sure if they should be able to hold up a two handed weapon, maybe a pistol.
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I don't know. You'd be surprised how much punishment a human can take before they completely shut down. That female cop at Fort Hood took 3 shots (2 in each thigh, and one in the wrist), and continued to exchange fire. Between her and her partner, they took the psycho down.
 
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#36
Zetsumei said:
Where did i say people should fly back. I'm just saying that different types of ammunition have different effects on the human body and with that different kinds of stopping power.

I mean they could give the same basic energy to a lower caliber weapon in rifles, such as the dutch used in 2nd world war with their 6.5mm caliber. The issue is that while the bullet is going really fast it goes in and out, without transferring all of its energy. You still die, due to internal bleeding or whatever, but you arent immediately out of action because of the lack of shock.

When assuming the bullet passes through nicely and doesnt thumble, bigger caliber rounds will transfer more of its kinetic energy while passing through the human body giving a bigger stomp initially. Not a stomp that flies people back, but a stomp that stops them from shooting back, due to the response of the body towards the hit.

If you get hit hard by a fast baseball you most likely get knocked back, yet probably wont die.
If you get hit with the same kinetic energy but in a much smaller spot, it will less likely knock you back while you're more likely to die because it passes through you and destroys things on its way.
Click to expand...

What you want is not a transfer of kinetic energy insofar as we're talking about forcing someone to the ground, as it would be more likely that the bullet would simply travel through the body without stopping if it had more kinetic energy to blow.

Instead of using that energy to move the object (the target), you want the energy to be transmitted into heat energy or actual physical deformation of the target's matter. If the bullet pancakes or something that isn't actually transferring more kinetic energy or stopping power to the target, that's just basically deforming the projectile, which is a loss of kinetic energy. What you want is to direct that deformation towards the target through wounding

An AK-47 round has a lot of kinetic energy but crap wounding. It passes through the body and has a lot of "stopping power," but it tumbles instead of fragmenting or doing anything interesting so that it doesn't cause a whole lot of permanent damage by making a large wound channel.

I mean....how would you increase the amount of kinetic energy transferred to the target in terms of motion? The only kinetic energy you're going to spend is either in energy that's going to leave the system through sound, deformation (in an inelastic collision), heat energy or whatever, and the kinetic energy it's actually going to take to fully penetrate the target plus an exit wound. If it fully penetrates the target I'd say it transferred all of its kinetic energy to the target.
 
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#37
VariousNames said:
If it fully penetrates the target I'd say it transferred all of its kinetic energy to the target.
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I'm not sure what the point here is, by definition, only if the bullet fully penetrates the target but doesn't exit, does the projectile loose all it's kinetic energy. If it penetrates and passes through the target, it must keep some of it's kinetic energy.
 
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#38
Mormegil said:
Chest shot, sure. But I was responding to the shot in the leg comment you made.
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Still I have the strong belief that if any bullet hits your leg(s) you'll have a date with the ground and a particularly hard one when sprinting. If no vital part is hit you might get the chance of standing up again after some time.
We're with RO and not CoD where someone can spray a whole magazine into your legs and you're still moving like nothing happened. AI soldiers fall to the ground in many games when shot in the legs, so why shouldn't the player do the same?
 
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#39
Mormegil said:
I'm not sure what the point here is, by definition, only if the bullet fully penetrates the target but doesn't exit, does the projectile loose all it's kinetic energy. If it penetrates and passes through the target, it must keep some of it's kinetic energy.
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What I meant was....transferred all possible kinetic energy to the target.

As far as force is concerned, I mean.

If the projectile stops without fully penetrating the target, then it spends all of its kinetic energy, whereas if it penetrates fully, it spends a greater amount of kinetic energy and still has enough to continue traveling. Therefore full penetration is more ideal as far as kinetic energy transfer, whereas what you are interested in from the perspective of terminal ballistics is for the energy to be spent deforming the tissue or dissipating heat energy which would cause further tissue damage.

This is if I understand the physics of collisions properly...
 
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#40
The_Emperor said:
Still I have the strong belief that if any bullet hits your leg(s) you'll have a date with the ground and a particularly hard one when sprinting. If no vital part is hit you might get the chance of standing up again after some time.
We're with RO and not CoD where someone can spray a whole magazine into your legs and you're still moving like nothing happened. AI soldiers fall to the ground in many games when shot in the legs, so why shouldn't the player do the same?
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Funny story, I shot someone with a .50 BMG Barrett in the legs COD4 and not only did he live, he sprinted away while I tried to recenter for the next shot.

For reference, a .50 BMG carries 5 times the kinetic energy of an 8mm Mauser or a .30-06.
 
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