So does anyone unlocked scoped kar98 lvl50 unlock? It can't be ZF 41 scope and i hope it's not a bayonet either.
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I'm pretty sure it IS zf41 scope. It was widely used on Kars. But that gives us a hint about twi creating a system to chose unlocks. Who on earth would play with this tiny scope on big maps when you have unlocked a 6x one previously.
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![[Mad_Murdock]](/data/avatars/s/9/9417.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
I believe he is saying it is reasonable to fire the much lighter DP with its low cyclic rate from a standing position with irons like a BAR.
I respect you Unus Offa, and your stuff seems to be well researched, but this comment isn't helping your cause.
On topic, i think MKb recoil is just fine, especially since it is fully manageable at lvl 1, at least for me. Perhaps it could be made more linear for realism yes, but quite frankly the gun does not need any more buffs. And then we would have a lot of other guns to look at too.
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Where would you hold it though? It has the same problem as the MG34, with no good way to hold it shouldered, unless you don't care about burning your hands ofcourse. And it's not really that much lighter either, it's 9.12 kg without the magazine, and well over that fully loaded.
If you take a look at his tone throughout this thread I believe my comment is fully justified.
Oh but it's not about buffs, it's about realism, and currently the Mkb42 is quite simply waay to difficult to control standing at lvl 1 when firing full auto compared to how easily an experienced shooter can control one in reality. It's litterally all over the place ingame atm.
And again, don't look at it as a buff, the weapon was a game changer in reality, dominating any other smallarm out there at the time. So we should naturally see this reflected ingame as-well, which is why it is important to limit the numbers of this weapon present ingame even more, cause currently there are too many Mkb42's present, same as with the semi autos.
But like I said Mkb42 not the only weapon with too much base recoil ingame atm, weapons such as the MG34, DP28 and PPSh all feature too much recoil at their base lvls.
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The PPSH basically starts off with near uncontrollable recoil at lvl 1, but by lvl 40 it's a killing machine.
I see a lot of people running around with the MG34 + dual drum's acting like rambo though.
The only gun I've seen with laughably starting recoil is the MP-40! This thing must have a plinkers recoil at 50.
I see a lot of people running around with the MG34 + dual drum's acting like rambo though.
The only gun I've seen with laughably starting recoil is the MP-40! This thing must have a plinkers recoil at 50.
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Oh I agree, and it's the same story with the Mkb42. Infact atm the lvl 50 recoil of most weapons seems realistic to be honest, so if the progession system has to go, then atleast the lvl 50 recoil needs to stay.
I usually dispatch these with no problem, they're only a real threat at point blank range.
Well, the MP40 has very little recoil in reality, you should try it sometime, it's a real pleasure to shoot. I can definitely understand why some US troops would replace their Thompson with one, cause the Thompson has got a lot of recoil by comparison.
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Agreed, if they were more limited i could totally get behind this. Much rather have realistic limits with realistic recoil than free for all with weird compensation.
This.
Thats the spirit
Would love to, been itching to get my hands on some WWII automatics, but California hates men so its a pain in the ***.
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The PPSH recoil drops noticeably around lvl 30. The results you are seeing are what you get at lvl 1.
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What about MP-40 recoil at lvl 30+? If the difference between them wasnt that great it would be fine, but at high level MP-40 becomes laser gun. Another thing about PPSh recoil is that while its manageble at short distances it often leads to death due to stuttering - the gun often jumps when you get into firefight throwing your aim off a lot, usually above the enemy head which is fatal in CQC.
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DP-28 WiseLite Arms - YouTube
At 1:39 some guy fired DP 28 while standing and ADS. He could have totally burned his hands in the process of course, and if he did it would be a pointless feature to include in the game.
Also while you are right that it's not a light gun, it's still 3kg/6lbs lighter than MG34, and that's pretty significant weight difference for a gun.
Edit: also it looks like people are able to handle MG3 from the shoulder... of course I'm not sure if that gun has better place to hold the gun by to avoid burning your hand, but at least that answers the weight issue.
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Really? That's your argument for "equality" in terms of love? TWI incorrectly drew up the models for germans? And favored Russians with more models? That kind of love is killing the Russians on the battlefield right now...
I'd rather run around with a "meh looking" item, that absolutely rips everyone to shreds, than have an awesome drawn up gun that is useless...
It seems the 'reality' has been really scewed on these forums. We say video's or people shooting are reality, but by same token, when given a proper military stance army personnel, we disregard it as "well, look he's not standing"... Most of the time firing my PPSh (in game, lvl 40) is done kneeling. Hell, most of the moving i do is ducked down. (In real life, i found that most comfortable for me to shoot is also kneeling, i prefer it over any other position).
They have fixed MKB, at lvl 1 it kicks like a mule all over (unless of course you hit 6 and take it into single shot) But MP40 is still the sniping weapon of choice for so many Axis players. It has no recoil, even looking at the video's you've posted, Unus Offa, it does take the dude some force to keep it down.
I'm not suggesting we introduce unrealistic recoil that just peppers the screen, all i'm saying is - if Russians are portrayed as rookies, do same favor for Germans.
Explain to me why is it that TWI is going extra mile to add not one, but TWO upgrades, to as is killer gun (MG34) with absolutely no upgrades to it's counterpart (DP28)? Let me guess - 'realism'?
Not to beat a dead horse here, but there isnt much realist of adding MKB prototype, it would've been more realistic to probably see MG42 (which i think would be a perfect counter part to DP)
All bs aside, i'm thinking a lot of these issues could be solved if proper "jamming" would be taken into a count. A lot of German weapons suffered a great deal due to cold/dirty conditions, whereas simpler Russian ones prevailed.
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Its a pity that one of the most important characteristic of the weapon - reliability, is left out by almost all games (Jagged Alliance 2 <3), and production numbers (introduced a bit by reducing the number of axis assaults, but its nowhere as close as it was in WW2). Prototype weapons look so nice when what they really lack is left out... convinient, isnt it?
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A JA2 fan... such a rare occassion. That game was trully something else. One of my ALL time favorite... So much depth, so much was thought through.. Hell, even the very start of game, the idea of filling out that survey, and the way it shaped your character.... I actually re-played the game somewhat recently, only few month's ago, let my wife do the survey... boy was that a a mistake... Character ended up being stealthy aggressive maniac, who instead of single shooting would full auto half the time
Indeed, almost no games take "jamming" into count. First time i got the "no first shot after death" bug in RO2, i was excited, i thught it was a jam... Until i realized it's just a bug.
I really believe that jamming, would really fix the balance issue in the game.
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But what are these "meh looking" items that are ripping everyone to shreds hishniks ? Really, you should list them, and then we shall take one at a time.
It sure as heck aint the ZF41 scoped guns we're seeing ingame atm though, and the sniper rifles seem perfectly balanced - heck the Soviets even get a 6x scoped semi automatic sniper rifle they never had, and the ingame accuracy of the thing is beyond anything I've seen in real life with that rifle design.
They haven't fixed anything hishnik, none of the weapons have been touched by TWI since release, and that's straight from the mouth of Yoshiro. So I really don't know where you're getting the idea that anything has been fixed.
Also as repeated so many times by now, the ingame Mkb42 kicks way too much atm, the recoil is waay to excessive compared to the real thing. I've fired the Mkb's closest counterpart in real life, the StG, and it's a lot more controllable in full auto fire than we're currently seeing with the Mkb ingame, and the StG even shoots a tiny bit faster as-well.
No it actually really doesn't, I've fired it, it's extremely easy to control, and very noticably easier than the PPSh which I have also fired and also found quite easy to control. Heck with the MP40 you don't even need the butt stock unfolded, that's how gentle that gun is.
They are portrayed just the same in terms of ability hishniks, no side is getting any special treatment here, and the only example you keep bringing up to try and prove otherwise is the heavy recoil of the PPSh, to which I can tell you that the same applies for the Mkb42 = they both feature too much recoil. So again, no favoring going on at all.
The MG34 was used far more often with 100 round belts than with assault drums hishniks, and a lot of extra equipment WAS available and WAS used for it. Sadly the same can't be said about the DP28.
The MG42 as the perfect counter ?
You do realize that gun will only make it even harder for the soviets right? It's a buzzsaw of death, no other MG comes close.In short: If we ever see a realistically modelled MG42 ingame, we're also going to be seeing A LOT of crying on the forums immediately after.
Well, not really. The K98 had some issues before a new gun oil was introduced in 42, which solved its' problems. The MG34 had some problems with excessive amounts of dirt, but really so did most MG's, it's main problem was how expensive it was to make. Also what many often fail to mention is the frequent problems that the PPSh for example had with jamming when using the drum mag, leading most soldiers to only load it to a maximum of ~50 rounds in an effort to reduce that tendency; and finally leading to the adoption of the 35 stick mags.
So do you really wanna add "proper jamming" for these weapons?
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It would be ok if Mkb didnt use rifle rounds and PPSh wasnt used by all assaults and some SLs. You can choose between MP-40 and Mkb, you are stuck with PPSh. And the high recoil of Mkb doesnt effect gameplay much as you can always switch to semi-auto. It may only be noticable at close range, but you need less bullets to kill enemy. Correct me if Im wrong.
It would be the perfect counter (in RO2) as you'll waste much more ammo with MG42 as there's no semi-auto and its RoF is much higher. DP28 will be used for single shots while it'll be impossible to do so with MG42, thus the balancing. And even its better than DP28 in more aspects than its worse, still german MGs were well known for their effectiveness and I see nothing wront with it. I also see nothing wrong with PPSh being renown for its effectiveness and being better than axis counterpart. Actually this kind of "uneven balance" is very refreshing, but as long as its somewhat balanced.The MG42 as the perfect counter ?
What about MP-40, Mkb, G41 reliablity? MG34 was quite reliable compared to them. PPSh was very reliable and drum jamming was mostly fixed by (as you said it) not loading a full drum (And I think I've read somewhere that there was an order that prohibited soldiers from loading full drum). Much more reliable than MP-40 anyway. I dont know about Mkb reliability but I doubt it was very reliable, being a prototype weapon. G41 was unreliable, only after they used system from SVT-40 and made G43 it got some kind of reliability.
Yes, this is why I want proper jamming.
edit: Actually bolt rifles and machine guns were the most reliable weapons in german arsenal, its very strange to talk about their reliability and not about MP-40 or G41. When speaking about balance people should discuss everything thats involved in topic, not just the facts that will some present subject better while avoiding the facts will draw a shadow over it. Generally speaking - not to be biased.
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The SVT had/has accuracy of up to 1500meters, which is 500 meters short of both K98 and MN91/30. Okay, you're right though, someone decided to add some weird 6x scope that isnt very realistic, countered by even less realistic prototype weapons. Semi-automatics we have ingame right now are pretty much same railgun just different sounds and visuals.
At some point of time you have to realize that there is a balancing issue involved. While maybe MKB kicks excessively compared to the 'real' thing, we should keep in mind:
a. unless we have ability to get hands on the actual prototype, it might have been kicking that much, we've only got the STG to judge by, which is a finished product
b. it has more stopping power, it's round is very similar to that of AK47 (which by many speculations is where design of AK came from), ever bothered to shoot
c. its counterpart (AVT40) has even worse recoil (which is fairly realistic, taking into a count the size of the round)
You yourself say here, that both guns are "easy" to control, with MP40 being 'noticably easier' in RO2 MP40 is super easy to control from the very first level, whereas controlling PPSh is like taming a wildest horse doped amphetamines out in the steppes. Also take note that Russians knew about the high speed of PPSh and that's why they included selective fire switch... Which is missing from game until you get to lvl 50.... Makes good sense to me... Last i checked, selective fire on MKB/AVT/MG34 is from lvl 1
You have to differentiate the weapons, MKB has less recoil than its counterpart AVT, and actually it has about same recoil as PPSh... Which is odd, taken into a count the difference in the rounds used. While I can understand the thinking behind making AVT being that bad (in reality its about the same, we are talking about a 7.62x54R round fast fired)
All in all, i still find myself questioning the weapon choice of "Elite Assault" classes if you will, I would've opted to perhaps settle for FG42 vs. AVS36, both being somewhat on the same playing field.
As for "fixing" i guess i was referring to stat reset, because i avoid MKB's at all costs, i will proudly wear the bolt, than pick up MKB, but i did try it back before reset (though i was Hero at the time) and it had NO recoil whatsoever. And not too long ago i picked it up to see if any changes been made (after one of the big patches) and (i'm lvl 1 with it) it climbs pretty quickly on full auto.
Once again - balance... Russians had crap for weapons, they were using older made weapons, but they had stronger will to survive, and most of the time were on defensive, and the high command had no problem with literally 'disposing' of millions of soldiers to achieve nothing.
That being said, should we, in the name of 'reality' balance out the weapons realism by introducing the playing ratio of teams being three Allies per every one Axis player?
Yup, i couldn't have said it better than Vesper's response, really:The MG42 as the perfect counter ?
In short: If we ever see a realistically modelled MG42 ingame, we're also going to be seeing A LOT of crying on the forums immediately after.
^^^Exactly what i was leading into at first when i mentioned MG42 (Which was the War production era made gun, thus simplified to make faster and cheaper)
I sure do.. I'd love to have people jam their weapons. And i'm not saying make only German weapons jam, far from it... Make every weapon open to jamming, just keep it somewhat on historical scale, and it'll be great.
Lets be real, most likely G43 (the SVT clone gas operated system, reworked G41) most likely did NOT make it into this battle... So make Germans suffer with G41, which was a prototype, and it was absolutely horrific one at that. It was jamming all the time, it was not nearly as accurate as it would become later.
As Vesper mentioned, MG (and later K98) was essentially the most reliable gun of Nazi Germany, the tough winters of Russia took it's toll on their weapons. Russians had their fair share of problems, but most of them were actually something to do with soldiers not cleaning the "storage cosmoline" off before using the gun... That's what most of the jams were contributed to... Yes i'd love to see actual gun jamming
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