Liberation Day - The Aftermath

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Nestor Makhno

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 25, 2006
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The guy is long overdue for a ban - saw it coming a while back.

Though, I have to say, this type of thread often becomes trollbait, no matter how well-intentioned.
 
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CptFoley101

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 18, 2012
390
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Sofia,Bulgaria
What you people forget is this:
Yes,the Red Army did commit crimes,and because of that Stalin himself issued an order which prohibits any action unworthy of a Red Army soldier(unjustified killings of civilians).They(the soviets ) believed that by killing german civilians,this would be fuel for stronger german resistance and we all know what that means.Therefore any Red Army soldier who committed such a crime was executed on sight.Even "Hero of the Soviet Union" soldiers were shot because of this.
 

Doom88

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2014
31
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Ukraine
www.chernobylstudios.com
I thought about it, and I'm going to leave one more very lengthy response. Skip if you're not interested. I'm going to specifically address the crimes against partisans and civilians from the German side.

To start, let's remind that on 22 June 1941, the Council of the Supreme Soviet imposed martial law over Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Ukraine, White Russia, Karelia, Bessarabia, as well as over the territories of Archangel, Murmansk, Vologda, Leningrad, Kalinin, Ivanovo, Yaroslav, Ryazan-Smolensk, Tula, Kursk, Moscow, Voronezh, Orel, the Crimea, and Krasnodar. General mobilization was ordered in 15 military districts.

One week later, partisan warfare began. It was a prepared measure in violation of international law for which the Wehrmacht was unprepared. Furthermore, a “Service Regulation for the Partisan War” had been in effect in the Red Army since 1933. As early as January and February 1941, large scale partisan war games were held in various military districts of the Soviet Union by the “Society for the Encouragement of Defense” (Osowiachim), in which the civilian population also took part, as reported by the Army newspaper “Red Star”.

Based on these experiments, the Soviet Communist Party created so-called “Destruction Battalions”, even prior to the beginning of the war. When an area was to be abandoned by the Red Army, these destruction battalions were systematically supposed to destroy all businesses, communications installations, medical installations, etc. of any military or commercial importance, and to being partisan warfare as soon as the front was overrun.

On 29 June 1941, the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union called upon all Party, Soviet, Trade Union and Komosol organizations to form “partisan divisions and diversion groups” and to pursue and destroy the German invaders in a “merciless struggle… to the last drop of blood”.

Two phrases occur repeatedly throughout all following announcements, orders, instructions, instructions and guidelines of the Central and Provincial authorities of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union until the end of the war.

One phrase consists of all the possible variations on the word “destroy”, and the other, all possible variations on the word “invader”. As early as 1 July 1941, the Central Committee of the Communist Party of White Russia, for example, in compliance with the order from Moscow, ordered civilians “to blow up or damage streets and bridges, fuel and food warehouses, set vehicles and airplanes on fire, cause railway accidents, give the enemies no rest either day or night, destroy them wherever one comes across them, to kill them with everything at hand: ax, scythe, crowbars, pitchforks, and knives”. A particularly remarkable sentence states: “In destroying the enemy, don’t shrink from resort to any means at all: strangle, burn, poison the fascist expectoration!”

On 3 July 1941, Stalin, in his well-known radio speech “Comrades! Citizens! Brothers and Sisters! Fighters of our Army and Navy!”, which was broadcast everywhere over and over again in the following days, ordered the population to deprive the German invader of everything that might be of use: “Not single locomotive, not one single railroad car, not one kilogram of grain, not one liter of fuel must be left behind for the German enemy”. Anything that could not be taken away was to be destroyed: “In enemy-occupied areas, partisan divisional units, on both foot and horseback, must be created to fight the units of the enemy army, to set partisan warfare ablaze everywhere, to blow up bridges and streets, to destroy telephone and telegraph connections, to burn down forests, warehouses and wreck trains. Intolerable conditions must be created in the occupied territories; the enemy is to be pursued and destroyed at all time, and all enemy measures must be thwarted.”

On 18 July 1941, followed the decision of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union entitled “On the Organization of the Struggle Behind the Lines of the Hostile Troops”, the leaders of the Republic, Area and district committees of the Party organizations were personally made responsible for ensuring that “Partisan divisions, diversion and destruction groups on foot and horse”, in compliance with Stalin’s order, were organized to “create intolerable conditions for the German invader”.

Stalin’s speech at a celebration session of the Mosow Soviet of the Deputies of the Workers on the occasion of the 24 th anniversary of the Great Socialist October Revolution on 6 November 1941 was peppered with insults directed at German soldiers:

“Men with the morals of beasts”, “Robbers who have lost all human face in their moral rottenness and have long since sunk to the level of beasts”, “Men without conscience and honor”, etc.

Any awful word was permitted against them. The population was to be mobilized “to the last man” in destroying the German enemy. To this purpose, on 17 November 1941, Stalin issued Order no. 428, which, in German journalism, became known as the “Arsonists Order”. In the original, the order was entitled:

“The monstrous crimes, cruelties and acts of violence of the German authorities in the occupied districts and territories” and stated as follows: “All settlements occupied by German troops are to be set on fire, to a depth of 40 to 60 km behind the main front line and 20 to 30 km on both sides of the roads. Air Force, Artillery and Partisan divisions groups equipped with bottles of fuel” were assigned to this task. The order is even said to have contained the following sentence: “The search and destroy commandos shall carry on the destruction actions in the uniform of the German army and Waffen-SS. Such actions incite hatred against the fascist occupiers and facilitate the recruitment of partisans in the backcountry.

At the same time, care should be taken to leave survivors to report on ‘German atrocities’". 20 to 30 “courageous fighters” were to be selected for these underground guerrilla groups, to be created in each regiment. “In particular, those who destroy settlements behind the German lines in German uniforms are to be nominated for the receipt of medals”, the order says.

The last sentence says: “The population must be told that the Germans burnt the villages and localities to punish the partisans”. The propagandists of the Red Army followed Stalin’s brutal order to the letter, even though it was chiefly directed against the Russian population.

On 30 November 1941, the most powerful of these propagandists, Ilya Ehrenburg, issued the proclamation: “Fighters, Spies, Partisans!”, in which he called upon members of these three groups to do as follows: “Anywhere there is a house in which the Germans might warm themselves, smoke the Germans out!”.

On 7 January 1942, the Soviet Foreign Ministry issued the following hypocritical note to their accredited diplomats in Moscow: “The Soviet Government, before the diplomatic representatives of world public opinion, objects to the cruelties, devastations and plundering committed by German troops in the Soviet territories, in which the German Wehrmacht deliberately destroys entire villages and cities and burns them to the ground, rendering the Soviet population homeless. The destruction has assumed the dimensions of widespread devastation. The Soviet population is robbed of food and clothing, while anyone who resists is shot”.

With these remarks, the Soviet government attempted to blame the Wehrmacht for atrocities unscrupulously committed by the Soviets themselves, against their own population.

The demonization of the German soldiers in Soviet propaganda paved the way for partisan atrocities against the “fascist beasts”, ”fascist carrion”, “band of Hitlerite cannibals”, “German robbers”, “Hitler hordes”, etc. To the partisans, this classification of the enemy was a license to kill. The cruelties of the Red Army were overshadowed by the cruelties of the partisans. German soldiers who fell into the hands of the partisans had to expect the worst. On 1 October 1941, a member of the Central Committee named Kazapalov called upon the partisans “to torture” captured German soldiers “by mutilating them before shooting them”. Brutalized members of the partisan hordes followed these instructions only too willingly. The Germans, in turn, commonly referred to the partisans as ‘bandits’.

Talking about "revenge" killing..... German officers were not always able to prevent their soldiers from taking revenge. The bitterness was too great. What happens in a soldier who finds his comrades lying mutilated at the edge of a forest? Do you think only Communists felt this way? Germans are humans, too.

The pay book of every member of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS contained a document entitled “The 10 Commandments of the German Soldier”, which was learned by every recruit. The third commandment stated: “No enemy who surrenders is to be killed, except for partisans or spies. The latter are to receive a just punishment from the courts”. These humane statements, which were entirely in conformity with international law and had been implemented in the campaigns until that time, were soon proven inadequate for the actual situation.

Despite the escalation of brutality in the partisan war, the German military leadership repeatedly called upon the soldiers of the Wehrmacht to spare the foreign civilian population. The Commander in Chief of the Army, in his “Guidelines for Fighting the Partisans”, issued on 25 October 1941, ordered that all German soldiers were to “win the trust of the population through rational and fair treatment, thus depriving the partisans of further support”.

In the “Guidelines for the Reinforced Struggle against the Problem of Banditry in the East” (Instruction no. 46) of 18 August 1942, even Hitler had to admit that the cooperation of the population was “indispensable”, demanding “strict but just treatment” of the Soviet population.

So... as you see Zakarro, things are not so simple. War is a terrible thing, and terrible things happen. However, the Soviet Communists were as horrible as they were crafty - coming up with ways to use pyschological warfare and propoganda (as you stated earlier) to help their war efforts. We can't take just one single source and automatically assume it is the truth.

Unfortunately for us, we have many sides of the same story: the Russian side, the German side, the civilians side, the American's side....and then the truth. We have to try and figure out what the truth is by looking at all the piece of information that come out, and that requires time, a level head, and discussion.

I'm sorry for the long post, everybody.
 
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Zakarro

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 11, 2014
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The guy is long overdue for a ban - saw it coming a while back.

Though, I have to say, this type of thread often becomes trollbait, no matter how well-intentioned.

Still waiting on that ban, speaking historical facts you know not about does not make me a troll nor needing of a ban :)


Your just mad cause I challenge your "views" yet again you did say Hitler and Stalin were allies which is funny to say the least. Yet again you are mad someone challenges your views so they deserve a ban right? Im still waiting ;)


Anyways adding you to ignore so you don't eventually piss me off leading to something that will get me banned because I know that's what you want. But I wont let you have your way.
 
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Doom88

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2014
31
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Ukraine
www.chernobylstudios.com
Still waiting on that ban, speaking historical facts you know not about does not make me a troll nor needing of a ban :)


Your just mad cause I challenge your "views" yet again you did say Hitler and Stalin were allies which is funny to say the least. Yet again you are mad someone challenges your views so they deserve a ban right? Im still waiting ;)

He means that your overly aggressive and combative nature against people who don't believe what you believe is the justification for a possible vacation from the forum.

Calm down a bit and just have a simple discussion. No hard feelings here.
 

Zakarro

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 11, 2014
664
0
0
He means that your overly aggressive and combative nature against people who don't believe what you believe is the justification for a possible vacation from the forum.

Calm down a bit and just have a simple discussion. No hard feelings here.

So then I made up everything I said about the stalin, brtain france anti fascist pact? Laugh


That I believe it the way you say it is you insinuating im lying or made this up.


And how am Im being aggressive, Im simiply mocking the ignorance of his posts.
 
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Zakarro

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 11, 2014
664
0
0
Zakarro,

Going from the threat you presented me in your personal message to me, I'm going to "give up" on this topic because I enjoy participating in the TWI forums and I know presenting these facts automatically makes me a "Neo-Nazi" and all this other nonsense. You have already made up your mind with the emotional reaction you're having now and there is no use to continue.

You win.


I think you need to learn what a threat is, what I said to you about taken care of has to to with Putin not me. Its him you should worry about.

Zakarro, I'm not sure if I should dignify your misrepresentations with an answer at all. I'll try it politely despite your malice.

1) Learn to read
2) Learn to understand what you read
3) Get a decent education
4) Learn to behave.

1)laugh
2)laugh
3)MAJOR LAUGH
4)So proving most of your flaws wrong means I misbehave?


You know what the funny part is, im already getting friend requests from real Russians here, I wonder why, maybe its cause im the only one defending them?


Anyways adding you to ignore. I do not need more critics.
 
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Zakarro

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 11, 2014
664
0
0
facepalm-hogan.jpg

Do not believe in everything that you see in games...

Is this a game? Or soviet propaganda?


Listen to the narrator, sure doesn't sound Slavic to me,.....


[url]http://youtu.be/nzRCiJNusXM[/URL]
 

Zakarro

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 11, 2014
664
0
0
I thought about it, and I'm going to leave one more very lengthy response. Skip if you're not interested. I'm going to specifically address the crimes against partisans and civilians from the German side.

To start, let's remind that on 22 June 1941, the Council of the Supreme Soviet imposed martial law over Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Ukraine, White Russia, Karelia, Bessarabia, as well as over the territories of Archangel, Murmansk, Vologda, Leningrad, Kalinin, Ivanovo, Yaroslav, Ryazan-Smolensk, Tula, Kursk, Moscow, Voronezh, Orel, the Crimea, and Krasnodar. General mobilization was ordered in 15 military districts.

One week later, partisan warfare began. It was a prepared measure in violation of international law for which the Wehrmacht was unprepared. Furthermore, a
 

Siegertyp

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 26, 2012
304
4
0
Impressive documentation about Austria in the time between 1938 and 1945, told by eywitnesses who were children and teenagers at the time. It is quite a well balanced documentation, because it adresses the early enthusiasm about the "Anschluss", the Nazi crimes against minorities and forced laborers, and the experiences of the civilians when the Red Army arrived.

Here a preview in German:

HEIL HITLER - DIE RUSSEN KOMMEN - Trailer HD | ab 27.1.2011 im Kino - YouTube

Some elements of the preview:

The man in front of the memorial tells about the hanging of a Polish teenager by Nazis; he remembered how she was sadistically hanged with 20cm clearance between her feet and the ground.

In the last minute several women tell about their rape by Red Army soldiers. One of them was raped 16 times - when she was a child.
 
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Adenru

Member
Oct 21, 2011
247
2
18
My grandfather fought in Poland, he did not like Poles in general after that, used to say "Pole would sell own wife for money", I doubt I need to explain what he ment by that. I only wonder haw many of those deals suddenly turned to rapes after collapse of USSR :D
 

Nestor Makhno

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 25, 2006
5,758
1,118
0
57
Penryn, Cornwall
My grandfather fought in Poland, he did not like Poles in general after that, used to say "Pole would sell own wife for money", I doubt I need to explain what he ment by that. I only wonder haw many of those deals suddenly turned to rapes after collapse of USSR :D

I can't actually think of a less appropriate use of an emoticon than what I just saw there. Srsly.