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Leveling with bots should be forbidden !

Falkenhorst

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 12, 2011
241
197
0
Yeah , bots with Hero difficulty are a little hard to kill , the have perfect aim ... you all can try it on SP camping . I think that bots should only give points when in They are in "Hero mode" .
In fact, hero bots are so good they can kill you without even looking or aiming at you. Seriously they do this.
 

sgtlongbow

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 10, 2011
87
28
0
moscow
it didn't ruin the game when everyone was hero, all i ever heard was mkb was over powered and there was too many, not omg too many hero classes . many want to unlock the drum mag for ppsh so we can have a level playing field.:eek:


Except for that whole 250 belt fed thing...or the super fast reloading...or the reduced sway...or the increased stamina...or the extra ammo...etc...
 

Apos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 3, 2007
1,749
1,436
0
Europe
www.enclave.pl
The differance between Black Ops and RO:HoS is that in Red Orchestra leveling up is not the main feauture in the game.
If people want to chill out and play against bots with their friends and level up some pistols or somthing thats fine. Its not like there going to get a better upgrade.
Some people might be playing against bots just to level up, but seriously mates, its thier loss not experiencing the game at its fullest.
Unfortunately you are wrong. In HoS together with level up you get reduced recoil, sway, more magazines, speed, stamina, better weapons, reduced reload time and more. In CoD or Bf you get different weapons and weapon unlocks which don't make you better than low level player.

1 lvl rookie: 0% sway and recoil reduction character
50 lvl grinder: 25% sway and recoil reduction plus other bonuses.

RO2 character progression is one of the most unfair I've ever seen in FPS games.
 
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DarkHunt3r

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 24, 2011
124
93
0
I really don't get what everyone is complaining about, the people that farm bots paid just as much as everyone else did for this game, they have just as much right to enjoy the game the same way you do, if that means they want to bot farm then so be it, it is their game and their choice.

It wont make them better players, even with the levelled up guns, playing against bots is so easy it is pathetic, I don't know how people here can say set on hero class they are a challenge, I mean seriously come on it is so easy there is absolutely no challenge in it at all, we run 3 servers (European) and they are fairly popular, always full, but someone has to go on in the mornings to get them started and that is usually me, it got bored just sitting there or running from cap to cap with nothing to do for the first 30 - 60 minutes until the pubbers come in, a couple of days ago we put bots on. we started with 10 a side to test it, but it was too much people didn't like playing vs bots (good on them) so we reduced it to 3 per side just to get the server started (and to give me something to do while waiting for the pubbers to join)

It is so damn easy to kill them, even on hero setting, i mean i was getting 30 plus kills against just 3 bots, they are useless, they get stuck on boxes and barriers, and you have to be as slow as hell to get killed by them, the only thing they are good for is bashing, they have a mega insta bash kills you every time, but at a distance they are too easy. playing against people is far harder and they just run in a straight line from cap zone to cap zone, so predictable. If your struggling against bots, you will get slaughtered on our server with real players for sure, and playing against them, levelling up, then coming to the real world you wont stand a chance, no matter how good you weapon is.

The problem is the levelling, and for some weapons the amount is stupid, for example you have to get around 20 kills or so to take a bolt up a level, but on a pistol you need 60+ so someone wanting to upgrade their mosin pistol to the silencer (WTF is that even in the game for?) or the C96 to the butt stock, via normal game play (considering how often you actually use your pistol) would take years, some people don't want to wait that long. I have always been against levelling, to me it should always be an even playing field with everyone having the same choices and not handicapped against another player just cos they have played it longer, but while it is there people will circumvent it, or at least try to.

If someone wants to gain all their experience by bot farming, fine, doesn't matter to me, I will still hand them their *** on our server :)
 
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Reactions: Goten

Skvate

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
145
9
0
Too much of a loser to earn your kills against players? You can only play the game "seriously" when you have every weapon maxed? Paaaathetic.
I have played RO since 2004. I have earned enough skill against players thank you very much. Now i just want to have the weapons thats gona be available in clanmatches etc(not sure if im gona be playing in a clan yet thou). Not sure what kind of settings are going to be used...but i im guessing as the same as maxed out weapons for all...so i want to get used to that kind of weapon levels.

But...im not really playing against bots and avoiding players...its just that very often it takes a lot of time to get other players to join the servers...and getting some lvl on the weapons while i wait is my reward.
 

HerrPanzerCardinal

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 21, 2011
27
15
0
I don't play any where near as much as I used to and I still find my weapons lvling up pretty easily without much effort human vs human. I was pretty ambivalent about the whole bot farming thing. But I read all the posts anyways to see where the community stood on it. I open up my friends list to see what people are playing and I see a friend in this server, "Old Dudes Gaming [24 bots 24/7 Rank Up!!]". Taking advantage of server-populating bots is one thing, but blantantly advertising this sadness is beyond sad.

This definitely puts me on the no-bots side of things. I play almost always as Russian so my mosin is lvl 40 and my kar is lvl 4. I notice a huge difference between the 2 with the reload and other bonuses even if both weapons, aside from minor differences, should be more or less the same. If the stats didn't effect gameplay at all then I couldn't care less about bot-farming. But as there is a noticeable difference I think it definitely should matter whether you rank up with bots.

Maybe make bots worth half or a quarter in terms of weapon kills. If bots are populating a server then there is still a benefit to playing, but it certainly would make farming a lot more work, and I am all for making bot-farmers work even harder. While I play they work.
 
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darkduke

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
24
0
0
Germany
I don't care about that. I like leveling on a normal server with normal other players. So where's the fun about leveling with bots? Some kind of annoying, isn't it?

Best way: Give every player level 99 and let the achievements for acquire.
 

Solo4114

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 12, 2006
1,608
38
0
I have played RO since 2004. I have earned enough skill against players thank you very much. Now i just want to have the weapons thats gona be available in clanmatches etc(not sure if im gona be playing in a clan yet thou). Not sure what kind of settings are going to be used...but i im guessing as the same as maxed out weapons for all...so i want to get used to that kind of weapon levels.

But...im not really playing against bots and avoiding players...its just that very often it takes a lot of time to get other players to join the servers...and getting some lvl on the weapons while i wait is my reward.

Pretty much this.


The whole "unlocks" and "ranks" system is f***ing stupid anyway. It creates an idiotic "metagame" that BECOMES the game. For many players, playing the game is the thing you do so that you can "win" at the unlocks game. Instead of, you know, actually just ENJOYING PLAYING THE BASE GAME.

It used to be, back in the good ol' days, that if you were better than someone else at PLAYING the game, you would beat them in a straight-up fight. Now, of course, because the game declares that they have "ranked up," they get additional bonuses like 5-10% recoil reduction and a wider array of weapons from which to choose.

The unlockable weapons never mattered much to me before, simply because since RO2k4 I've been happy with a boltie. But the notion that some guy who's been playing RO2 longer is functionally "better" at the game NOT because HE is actually a better player, but because the game is giving him an advantage?

That's just load of crap.

RO used to be better than this, but apparently it's succumbed to the moronic treadmill effect that's in all the Call of Battlefield Honor games and whatnot.

So, yeah, people are gonna stat pad if that's what it takes. I'll do it, if that's what it takes to level the playing field. Or at least I'll do it until I get bored with this game and gift it to someone else.
 

WingmanSR

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2011
65
35
0
Connecticut, USA
After having and using lvl 50 weaponry prior to the stat reset, I can say that the bonuses to recoil control, deployment, etc. are extremely mild and minor.

I really couldn't care less what others do with their free time. If they want to use that time to gain infinitesimally small improvements to weapon handling and upgrades that do have negatives in addition to the benefits they provide, so be it.
 

wooki

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 22, 2011
150
30
0
hhgallery.blogspot.com
After having and using lvl 50 weaponry prior to the stat reset, I can say that the bonuses to recoil control, deployment, etc. are extremely mild and minor.

I really couldn't care less what others do with their free time. If they want to use that time to gain infinitesimally small improvements to weapon handling and upgrades that do have negatives in addition to the benefits they provide, so be it.
Same here. I've been a hero and my results are not worse now than it was then. I don't play for stat progress, I play for fun.
Always fun or else I'll do something useful :)
 

rechz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 15, 2011
130
33
0
Unfortunately you are wrong. In HoS together with level up you get reduced recoil, sway, more magazines, speed, stamina, better weapons, reduced reload time and more. In CoD or Bf you get different weapons and weapon unlocks which don't make you better than low level player.

1 lvl rookie: 0% sway and recoil reduction character
50 lvl grinder: 25% sway and recoil reduction plus other bonuses.

RO2 character progression is one of the most unfair I've ever seen in FPS games.
You do realise that in CoD and BF,high level weapons are usually better than the others?And not just by %25 which is barely even powerful for a long period of leveling in RO2,in BF and COD they are really noticeably powerful and easier to get.(Examples:Black Ops:Commando,unlocks at level 40ish,Battlefield 3:AEK-971,is the 4th or 5th unlock for Assault.)
 

Duckmeister

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
22
48
0
I really don't understand, people are spending the exact same amount of time unlocking things with bots as they are with real human players. You have to get the same number of kills regardless. It doesn't affect anyone else, and they just choose to use bots instead.

Are unlocks really that big of a deal that you want to limit other player's choices just to satisfy your deluded sense of fairness? No, they aren't. Just play the game and don't worry about whether another player out there has better unlocks than you.
 

Remington

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 18, 2011
113
32
0
www.ezcompany.us
Tbh... I don't care.

I too like to have some bots on our servers. I'm trying to get a server populated, so I'm happy that there are at least some targets until people jump in. It sucks to be on a server alone waiting for something to happen. Time is valuable and shouldn't be wasted this way.

Okay, farming guys will level a bit and therefore have better guns/unlocks/reloading speed/... Another thing I don't bother about.
This won't make them owning me all the time. If I play carefully I can still effectively counter high level players. Heck, I've been getting into situations, in which my PPSH round drum ran dry and I got shot by a "level 10 noob" using an unleveled pistol.
Being good at a game requires much more than a 10%-reloading-speed-bonus and a larger clip.

While playing bots, you learn nothing about tactics, spots and how to play as a team anyways. So while farming players will have cool and fancy stuff, they might lack sense for tactics. That's the weak point enabling me to counter their highly leveled toys.

There is a lot of complaining now. But in lets say one, two or three months most people playing from the start will have unlocked and leveled most of the stuff anyways. I don't want to step on anybody's toes but I personally feel it is wasting time discussing an issue, that'll solve itself in the long run anyways.

And yea, new players will be disadvantaged. But that's the way it goes on every game - may it have unlocks or not. People that will like the game, won't drive that away. I got owned by vets on every game I started to play. Because I didn't know the maps, the spots, ...
 

Terviz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 9, 2011
38
11
0
Tbh... I don't care.

I too like to have some bots on our servers. I'm trying to get a server populated, so I'm happy that there are at least some targets until people jump in. It sucks to be on a server alone waiting for something to happen. Time is valuable and shouldn't be wasted this way.
This is actually a good point. Without a certain group of persons, some of the servers might never get going because there is 1 or 2 players playing.

I do wonder though whether the bots show up in the player count on the server browser?
 

Solo4114

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 12, 2006
1,608
38
0
And yea, new players will be disadvantaged. But that's the way it goes on every game - may it have unlocks or not. People that will like the game, won't drive that away. I got owned by vets on every game I started to play. Because I didn't know the maps, the spots, ...
No, not every game, and not the same way.

Some games are intuitive and simple to learn. Some games are difficult to learn, but don't simultaneously give long-term players "cheats" in addition to their innate knowledge and ability to manipulate the game.


Let me make this abundantly clear. There is a BIG difference between:

(A) PLAYER skill, which comes as a result of the player themselves being better at the game, understanding tactics better, having better natural aim via hand-eye coordination, faster reflexes, etc.

and

(B) The GAME giving players advantages such as a mathematical increase in their avatar's abilities, such as faster reload speeds, less recoil, less sway, greater stamina, etc.



RO2k4 and RO:O were difficult games (well, actually, RO2k4 was fairly easy before they shrunk the hit-boxes...) that "rewarded" long term players by virtue of those players THEMSELVES getting better at PLAYING the game. There's no question that they had a steep learning curve. You had to learn to spot without the aid of nametags at distances. You had to learn to manipulate the game to get used to the sway, breathing, etc. You had to learn (especially if you came from other shooters) to deal with iron sights as opposed to using a crosshair. You had to get used to the soldier's speed and stamina, so you could gauge how fast you could cross ground, and whether you'd need to run from cover to cover or if you could make it to that spot over there without getting winded. And, of course, you had to learn the maps too.

All of that remains in RO:HoS, but with the ADDITIONAL hurdle of the longer term players being given mathematical advantages over a newbie. Not only are they (presumably) naturally better at the game because they're more familiar with it and are used to manipulating and PLAYING the game better, but their avatars are themselves "better" soldiers.



RO has, up until this idiocy in HoS, been a "RPG" where you "built" your in-game avatar. If folks want that, there are several other games out there that do this and, by the way, do it WAY better than RO:HoS does. And, admittedly, if ALL that was "unlocked" were extra weapons selections for class-loadouts, and IF the class breakdowns were more boltie-heavy and less auto-heavy, then in the end, it really wouldn't matter. If the weapons and class breakdowns still all performed they way they did in RO:O, weapon unlocks within classes wouldn't really matter much.

But with the "skill" points and with functional improvements like bayonets being "unlockables", now you have a poorly designed RPG mechanic shoehorned into a game that never needed it. You want that? Go play an MMO or Medal of Battlefield Duty. Or hell, play Space Marine if you don't mind the matchmaking. They actually do a pretty good job of balancing this stuff. But keep this crap out of RO or at least give serious servers an option to turn all thus bulls**t off and go back to REAL RO.

RO is now just an "also ran" that doesn't "run" very well. It's going to be frustratingly difficult for newbies to join due to the inherent difficulty of the game itself coupled with the idiotic design of the unlock/ranks system. It tries to make RO like CoD/BF/etc., and doesn't go far enough in either direction to really work. Basically, it tries to take two distinct flavors and blend them together and, I'm sorry, but chocolate and anchovies do NOT taste great together.


But the biggest shame about all of this?

RO was a game YOU played, not a game that played YOU.
 

wooki

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 22, 2011
150
30
0
hhgallery.blogspot.com
You miss a point that has been made many times in the thread. Playing against bots will not make you a better player against human opponents.
Meaning a fully unlocked botfarmer will almost certainly lack the skills of a level 25 who's only played against real people.

I've played a lot of local botmatches when my net is too slow. That effectively makes me a worse player every time I join online since I become careless and sloppy by fighting inferior opponents. I am a mellow guy but man, having those botfights in my system when meeting real people makes for really rage inducing fails :D

Edit: Just realised you were just upset about the stat progress system and didn't even mention bots. Oh well. My point is some point anyway.
 
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