Let's help TWI fix survivalist quickly.

[WeretigerRei]

I found out also that suv have some very OP features that needs to be fixed, for instance :

1) It makes the support class obsolet, because you can do almost the same damage, carry all weapons support can carry, it cant yelt doors but it dosent matter in most games, and as a plus it have high damage resistance, can run away from zeds using bezerk speed, can heal itself very quickly, etc.

2) For the same reasons, it makes demolition also obsolete, I know some will say about the nuke and sonic resistance, but if you dont use nuke as some players its the same, and sonic resistance is not that much of a deal in trade of high resistance and speed.

3) Firebug also is obsolete now, currently the only problem with firebug is the low resistance to damage, if you can play with an perk doing the same damage but with high resistance why play with firebug ?

And how to fix it ? Its hard, firstly I would recommend reducing the carry weight from suv from 20 to 18, it would fix for the support issue. For demo and demolition thought, I dont know, it could have reduced damage like in 10%, I guess that would do...

#1. Survivalist doesnt have Penetration, Damage output, ammo and armor handout.

#2. Demo weapons are indeed good with Survivalist and its almost as if the class favors them more than any other class. Where they are deficient is with the ammo total and the damage as demo can innately has more of both. I find myself running out of ammo with the RPG 7 even on suicidal while playing with the survivalist because it requires more shots to take down an FP. Those direct damage buffs that demos get really help with FPs and Scrakes. Forget headshotting scrakes too. I dont try to touch the scrakes with demo weapons as a survivalist but I suppose thats what the Kriss, P90 or Dual Mags are for. Grenade handouts are great too. Changing Demo's Fragmentation Rounds skill to be 30% with no damage debuff would help demo a lot. Nerfing Make Things Go Boom to 20% would help too.

#3. No way. I cant count how many times I set myself on fire with the Flamethrower as the Survivalist. Panic strategies that I used as Firebug like firing straight at the ground when I get cornered dont work as I just kill myself if I do. So if Flamethrower is out whats left? Microwave gun? Thats a pretty weak weapon even as a Firebug. Another problem is that few Survivalist skills work with Firebug weapons. Survivalist also gets no afterburn buff.

Hoe games, I have an friend that just played as support in the past, he is very good, now he is playing as suv with support only weapons, the trade of penetrations and yeld for high speed, damage resistance and the strong crossperk possibilities just worth it too much. Also, I forgot to mention another class that is obsolete now, SWAT...
Obs: We are all lvl 25, its so easy to up to 25 that its a joke, I get up my suv to 25 in 2 days ( of course no perk trainning maps ).

The Ammo clips size really cripples what the Survivalist can do with SWAT weapons and with no stun grenade mowing down Scrakes is impossible. SWATs 25 Zed Time skill is a beast with infinite ammo. SWAT does need some armor buffs though.

 

[DeadPlayer123]

Well, anyway, I think suv dont need too much nerf, maybe dont need damage nerf only time will tell, I would be happy with the fix on the granades ( change molotov to commando granades ), louse an feature when you level up makes you fell that you should not lvl up, and that is bad.

 

[random]

Well, anyway, I think suv dont need too much nerf, maybe dont need damage nerf only time will tell, I would be happy with the fix on the granades ( change molotov to commando granades ), louse an feature when you level up makes you fell that you should not lvl up, and that is bad.

true, i prolonged my lvl up to 15 for that sole reason.

i don't think that the surv favors demo weapons, it just comes to show that they are too strong by themselves, even offperk, IMO their exp dmg is fine, however them having so much proyectile power renders resistances almost useless since you can kill anything one way or the other without much drawback.

i ended up enjoying quite a bit the melee skill of the surv, but mostly because of KF1 nostalgia to move faster, i even ended up doing it on other perks later out of habit, that said i think 25% might be a tad too good for a perk that already has extra resistance.

 

[MikeHoncho]

I think survivalist should get movement speed passively. Not having a movement speed boost when playing a healer is a bust, and he sucks as a berserker. Medic weapons also need to be added to the reload speed boosts. Not sure how they left those out considering they obviously want you to use them.

So far I can't find a combo that I think is worth using over a real class. There is always a missing perk that is crucial to the role you're trying to fill.

 

[Yoshiro]

I'm currently using this thread as a base for alot of my Survivalist feedback collection as a heads up (I am checking others, but using this one as a primary source as it has good chatter in it).

 

[2Clicks]

I just got my surv. to 25 yesterday. Just after I won a map on HoE with the perk. So heres some feedback of what Ive "generally noticed."

1. If there is one thing Ive noticed its that survivalist is a pretty good perk as is atm but very much in the role of a "support" or additional "assistant" for the team depend on its role. Players mainly go for RPG+shotgun or trash clearing SCAR+SMG depending on their preferred playstyle. Some use the M79 or M16+ instead of the RPG depending on their cash or perference.

2. I have seen a very few players use the eviz+kat. But the surprising thing is that whatever they use, depending on their perk level (and their skill level) they actually make good use of this perk's varied abilities.

3. Things Ive probably not seen alot of are survivalists using the railgun or more importantly using extensively the molotovs. Im not sure this is a useful option - so maybe frag/HE nades would be a better fit!? (Not for me - cause I prefer the heal nades esp. if no dedicated healer is present.) From what Ive seen most ppl play with the heal nades and on HoE even with a dedicated healer (with a +1 from a demo) its pretty useful having the extra five.

Playing this perk through the levels:
Normal: 0-5
Hard: 5-13
Sui: 13-23
HoE 24+

(only stock maps*)

4. I think it does quite well in terms of being useful to the team. But I cant get away from this feeling that unless certain perks are present (demo, medic and depending on camp/kite dynamic, zerk) its pretty difficult getting to the boss level unless the players are skilled enough. However and this is a big "however" given that players are still levelling and/or have boosted to 25 and have yet to get to grips with the limitations of the perk, until ppl max. survivalist out and the perk selection dynamic returns to normal its difficult to assess how well the current implementation works.

5. Its even worse during the boss round. Too many ppl are trying to win games as the survivalist and I think here is its main weakness. Either Hans or Patty got some unintentional boost or the survivalist isnt so much of one against the bosses. It definitely needs a good dedicated medic and needs a demo or zerk to keep the attention of the boss away from it while it hunts for ammo or fetches a spare weapon. No matter what loadouts are being used.

Imo I think it lacks the speed (or some other ability) to get away from danger that the name suggests. Though it will be interesting to see what your analytics say. Id wager that alot of understrength survivalists are being played too early for the diff. level. Sui and HoE seem to have the biggest fails in my games. Sometimes even with a good mix of perks.

6. Looking back at the original OPs suggestion I think that could be a good step in the right direction for the next iteration. But if you could find some way of adding a speed boost (maybe as a passive) that increases through the levels AND/OR copy the Reactive Armor from the demo (or take it from the demo) that could make the difference.

7. I personally like the survivalist's non-specialist role but as Ive come to realise its mostly bc my usual style of play lends alot to it. I tend to do dual/triple duties when I play either as a medic, mando or support i.e. I usually have a med. pistol for healing, I usually have a trash clearing weapon and I usually carry an RPG/AA12/C4 to assist in taking down biggies. (Thats if Im not playing a specialist like the sharpie or demo - rarely for the 2nd one.) So I can undestand why alot of players dont enjoy playing this perk. That said if you do decide to make surv. more tanky and faster, giving it the ability to outrun and outlast then maybe this perk will become what its concept suggests.

But if you do just and only one thing - look at how it plays the end game (boss wave) cause atm its not cutting the mustard. (Edit: I noticed that 0.2% of players have been a map on HoE as the survivalist - I would love to know which map(s) and if it was a stock map or something like Cube/HorizineArena, cause those maps give an advantage to players.

Just my 2cents ofc.

 

[WeretigerRei]

I'm currently using this thread as a base for alot of my Survivalist feedback collection as a heads up (I am checking others, but using this one as a primary source as it has good chatter in it).

Is Heavy Body armor working as intended? From the start it sounded like it should affect Max Armor.

 

[DeadPlayer123]

Is Heavy Body armor working as intended? From the start it sounded like it should affect Max Armor.

Heavy armor works exactly like in SWAT, you dont take damage until you have armor, but the drawback is that you dont see sometimes that you are taking damage...

About my toughts on suv, I think 2 actions would be nice for balancing :

1) replace molotov to commando grenades.
2) Reduce the weight frmo 5 to 3 in the weight skill ( forgot the name ).

 

[defekt_]

Surv is too slow, IME. If the perk had speed, a goodly amount of speed, maybe even faster, then his lack of specialist punching power could be made up by being better able to take best advantage of positioning.

 

[Reptilian]

Even though surv is able to use all weapons I think the perk still needs to have a more defined role. I think the damage resist passive is interesting and similar passives and skills would be a good idea.

 

[random]

Surv is too slow, IME. If the perk had speed, a goodly amount of speed, maybe even faster, then his lack of specialist punching power could be made up by being better able to take best advantage of positioning.

with the melee skill he is too fast, extra 25% + resistance make him very hard to kill, the more you get used to it the more close to being too strong he becomes in higher difficulties, something in the range of 10-15% sounds like a good mix of an edge with still having a challenge, currently you can get away with too many mistakes.

 

[AtomicHotsauce]

I've been playing the Survivalist on hard for just over a week now. I wasn't convinced by the perk tree at first, and it took me a while to find a loadout and style of play that worked, but once I did everything clicked and I'm now really enjoying it!

I've had the most success with this:

Dual HCs - these are the first weapons I go for since they're the most versatile, it's easy to kill trash as well as tougher zeds. They also work well against Scrakes.
M79 - Second on my list. Good for mobs of trash, and putting damage on Fleshpounds.
MP5/P90 - Great for clearing trash and preserving HC ammo later in the game when there are more/tougher zeds.

The medic grenades are also extremely useful, though I understand why some people miss the HE grenades - perhaps the starting grenade should the Molotov, and the HE is unlocked at level 15 instead?

 

[2Clicks]

with the melee skill he is too fast, extra 25% + resistance make him very hard to kill, the more you get used to it the more close to being too strong he becomes in higher difficulties, something in the range of 10-15% sounds like a good mix of an edge with still having a challenge, currently you can get away with too many mistakes.

The problem being ..... if you dont choose the melee skill.... then 'Surv is too slow,.....' If thats what needs a nerf then okay but if you dont choose that skill then youre done for (at least on the bosses level) unless a proper medic is present.

 

[Radio4ctive]

I slighty modified my survivalist changes suggestion:

---

Passives:

Global damage resistance 30% on lvl 25
Bonus weapon damage 25% on lvl 25
25% more health and armor on lvl 25
Adrenaline Rush - When below 25% hp: movment, melee attacks, weapon reload and switch speed increased by 10%

Heavy Body Armor - removed
ZED Time Reload - removed

---

Skills:

Level 5

• Tactical Training- All weapons reload speed increased by 30% and weapon switch speed by 40% (works also with firebug,medic and berserk weapons)
• Combat Training- All ranged weapons deal 10% more damage and 25% icreased magazine size

Level 10

• Medic Training- Increase the potency of all your healing by 25% and decrease the cooldown of your syringe and healing darts by 50%
• Martial Artist(hehe)- When using melee weapons increased damage by 15% and 20% more movment and attack speed

Level 15

• Ammo Vest- Carry up to 20% more ammo for all your weapons plus additional granade and your grenades are swapped out for Healing Grenades
• Weapon Harness- Increase carrying capacity by 5, you start game with additional random T1 weapon and your grenades are swapped out for Molotov cocktails

Level 20

• Bullseye - 50% more bullet penetration and 20% increased headshot damage
• Destroyer- Increase area of effect of all explosives by 30% and fire weapons range by 25%

Level 25

• Fast Hands- Durning ZED time you reload and switch weapons in real time
• Rampage- During ZED time all your weapons shoot 3x faster and attack with melee weapons in real time

 

[Shy Bell]

Hello everyone,
as I have not read anything about this so far I would like to share that the survivalist is the only class that is able to oneshot all small zeds with the M14 after you reach lvl 19.
That means you can bodykill every clot, slicer, cyst, stalker, crawler. Basically the m14 can kill everything below scrake without using much ammo. For scrakes I use the boomstick and fps I kill with the pulverizer. If I need to charge away and get out of sticky situations I just swap to the pulv, hit everything out of my way and be super fast while doing it.

I also have seen that someone (I think it was twoclicks) said that he does not often see the railgun. I always use it for boss waves for 2 reasons. 1. it has the best dps (correct me if I am wrong but I calculated with resistances and data according to the killing floor 2 spread sheet[even the rpg is worse against hans who has a huge weakness for rockets]), and for every ammo package that you pick up you get a lot of ammo (looking at the damage per 3 shots compared to other weapons like the aa12). Furthermore it is very accurate and hits instantly. Allthough all these facts also apply for the sharpshooter aswell the sharpshooter needs to shoot into the head to deal a lot of damage. As you often cannot hit the head and the weak point of kevin is his right arm, the survivalist has another advantage over the sharpshooter (I know if you hit everything in the head the sharp is better, but I think that is quite hard to achieve in a real game).

If you need to get away in the boss wave you can still pull your knife out and run quickly. If boss gets close you can also get away with boomstick jump and stun.
The only thing he lacks is movement speed for weapons, but I think that would make him OP.

If you try playing him with M14 you will see that even this is close to be OP (I hope TWI does not take it away).

Nevertheless I hope that the perk skills get changes (the molotovs are bad), they are pretty boring and onesided from my point of view. The only thing I switch is the grenade perk on boss wave to have the medic nades as I do not need the extra weight at the boss level.

 

[random]

The problem being ..... if you dont choose the melee skill.... then 'Surv is too slow,.....' If thats what needs a nerf then okay but if you dont choose that skill then youre done for (at least on the bosses level) unless a proper medic is present.

that's the same for every other perk that doesn't have speed bonus, feels like we are relying too much on movement bonus, maybe incaps need to have less cooldown or something.

on the survivalist, since he already has good resistance and reload speed, adding extra healing AND movement speed at the same time might be too good, so separating extra healing and speed in different skill kind of makes sense, however the extra healing seems not great, while the melee is too good if only for the extra speed, after starting to use that i pretty much never died with him.

if they were to make it a passive i hope they don't go beyond 15%.

on another note: is the lightning fast reload on the end of zed time considered a bug? its waaay convenient.

 

[random]

Hello everyone,
as I have not read anything about this so far I would like to share that the survivalist is the only class that is able to oneshot all small zeds with the M14 after you reach lvl 19.
That means you can bodykill every clot, slicer, cyst, stalker, crawler. Basically the m14 can kill everything below scrake without using much ammo. For scrakes I use the boomstick and fps I kill with the pulverizer. If I need to charge away and get out of sticky situations I just swap to the pulv, hit everything out of my way and be super fast while doing it.

I also have seen that someone (I think it was twoclicks) said that he does not often see the railgun. I always use it for boss waves for 2 reasons. 1. it has the best dps (correct me if I am wrong but I calculated with resistances and data according to the killing floor 2 spread sheet[even the rpg is worse against hans who has a huge weakness for rockets]), and for every ammo package that you pick up you get a lot of ammo (looking at the damage per 3 shots compared to other weapons like the aa12). Furthermore it is very accurate and hits instantly. Allthough all these facts also apply for the sharpshooter aswell the sharpshooter needs to shoot into the head to deal a lot of damage. As you often cannot hit the head and the weak point of kevin is his right arm, the survivalist has another advantage over the sharpshooter (I know if you hit everything in the head the sharp is better, but I think that is quite hard to achieve in a real game).

If you need to get away in the boss wave you can still pull your knife out and run quickly. If boss gets close you can also get away with boomstick jump and stun.
The only thing he lacks is movement speed for weapons, but I think that would make him OP.

If you try playing him with M14 you will see that even this is close to be OP (I hope TWI does not take it away).

Nevertheless I hope that the perk skills get changes (the molotovs are bad), they are pretty boring and onesided from my point of view. The only thing I switch is the grenade perk on boss wave to have the medic nades as I do not need the extra weight at the boss level.

SS does more body dmg with the m14 still, i preffer the scar in semi auto for trash, it's 2 shots on the body for clots, but i headshot them most of the time anyways, 1 shot for other trash, and it has over triple the ammo in case you need it to finish off a lose scrake going sideways or whatnot.

likeways bodyshots with SS railgun is just if not more viable, it loses on resistance tough. for reference an armshot with surv does 700 dmg, sharp does the same with no bonus going up to 940 without rack em.

 

[Shy Bell]

The scar sounds interesting. But then I have to choose between fast reload of boomstick vs. fast reload on scar :/
I guess I will think about it.

 

[random]

true. but that comes to show how restrictive the skill tree is, some of the global boosts of skills suggested make more sense.

 

[2Clicks]

that's the same for every other perk that doesn't have speed bonus, feels like we are relying too much on movement bonus, maybe incaps need to have less cooldown or something.

on the survivalist, since he already has good resistance and reload speed, adding extra healing AND movement speed at the same time might be too good, so separating extra healing and speed in different skill kind of makes sense, however the extra healing seems not great, while the melee is too good if only for the extra speed, after starting to use that i pretty much never died with him.

if they were to make it a passive i hope they don't go beyond 15%.

on another note: is the lightning fast reload on the end of zed time considered a bug? its waaay convenient.

Other perks rely on their damage dealing, not their ability to survive. Thats why they need a dedicated medic. Even the zerk! If one perk needs "something" to make him stand out on the boss wave its that ability. Ofc the devs may not agree and try something else. Either way something needs to make it stand out more. I would hope that they (the devs) wont force us to choose the zerk skill on the boss wave if running as survivalist but if they do then so be it.

However if there is too much speed or they can cont. outrun zeds then thats probably not so great too!