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Let's help TWI fix survivalist quickly.

PurpleFanta

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 25, 2015
786
30
0
Radio4ctive;n2277799 said:
Here's my suggestion:

Passives:

Global damage resistance 40% on lvl 25
Bonus weapon damage 30% on lvl 25
25% more health on lvl 25
25% more armor on lvl 25

Skills:

Level 5
Tactical Training
- All weapons reload speed increased by 30% and weapon switch speed by 40%
Combat Training- All ranged weapons deal 15% more damage and 20% icreased magazine size

Level 10
Medic Training
- Increase the potency of all your healing by 20% and decrease the cooldown of your syringe and healing darts by 50%
Martial Artist(hehe)- When using melee weapons increased damage by 15% and 25% more movment and attack speed

Level 15
Ammo Vest
- Carry up to 20% more ammo for all your weapons plus additional granade and your grenades are swapped out for Healing Grenades
Weapon Harness- Increase carrying capacity by 5, you start game with additional random T1 weapon and your grenades are swapped out for Molotov cocktails

Level 20
Bullseye
- 50% more bullet penetration and 20% increased headshot damage
Destroyer- Increase area of effect of all explosives by 30% and fire weapons range by 25%

Level 25
Fast Hands
- Durning ZED time you reload and switch weapons in real time
Rampage- During ZED time all your weapons shoot 3x faster, additionaly melee attacks in real time

Passives(Optional):

Survivalist Instinct- (Activated by holding flashlight button) For 10 seconds you can see throught the walls big zeds and bosses positions, you can see also ammo packs, armor vests and weapons lying on the ground (30 sec. coldown)

New item:

Survivalist Tool Kit- Once per round you can drop survivalist tool kit, you and your teammates can grab package.
Effect: Instantly regenarate 20 hp, 15 armor, gives 15% ammo, additionaly recharge syringe and flashlight battery.
This is really good honestly. and PLEASE @TRIPWIRE Twi PLEASE PUT MARTIAL ARTIST IN ONE OF THE SKILL NAMES. I cracked up over that honestly.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,212
3,429
113
PurpleFanta;n2278170 said:
This is really good honestly. and PLEASE @TRIPWIRE Twi PLEASE PUT MARTIAL ARTIST IN ONE OF THE SKILL NAMES. I cracked up over that honestly.
More irony, that was never the prospective perks actual name (it was a stub put in by a programmer). The original idea was called Urban Ninja.
 

imnrk

Active member
Jul 9, 2015
698
93
28
Yoshiro;n2278172 said:
More irony, that was never the prospective perks actual name (it was a stub put in by a programmer). The original idea was called Urban Ninja.
Ok, Urban Ninja sounds pretty badass. I never liked the "martial artist" idea though, glad it got scrapped for survivalist. I'm on the boat of people that likes the idea, quite a lot I might add, it's a fun perk right now but it just feels like it's missing something. Spontaneous zed-splosion is a good skill, I would either like more things like that or more tanky stuff. Maybe some fire skills? I also feel the zed-time reload is bad, I like it for gunslinger but something about it rubs me the wrong way with survivalist.
 

Gladius

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 4, 2011
1,456
83
0
Yoshiro;n2278149 said:
We are watching player feedback on the perk now that they have had hands on with it. There are several camps and we are keeping a close eye on the feedback from all of them. Those who like it...
Where is that "camp who likes it" presenting its feedback? I follow both the forum here and reddit and I don't see such a camp. Dunno if you have statistical data about it, but you might find that after reaching level 25 and getting the map completion achievements, people just stop playing that perk. It needs a complete overhaul and you already know that.
 
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DeadPlayer123

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2016
330
12
0
43
WeretigerRei;n2278103 said:
The medic skills given to Survivalist are paltry. They arent even a a fifth of what the medic can do.
Only if you play with the left skills, if you play as combat medic using the right skills its pretty much the same, just the damage using crossperk is worse and that is why now the combat medic is the suv.
 

Goyanium

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 27, 2013
84
1
0
California
Yoshiro;n2278172 said:
More irony, that was never the prospective perks actual name (it was a stub put in by a programmer). The original idea was called Urban Ninja.
I wouldn't mind if Urban Ninja comes back at a later date. But Survivalist doesn't need to be removed, It just needs more uniqueness then it would be 100% for me.
 

TheUndying

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2015
263
27
0
Veny;n2278130 said:
I have never understand attitude "bad feature is worse than no feature" and i fail to understand it now. From what i saw, people are enjoying this perk (me included). Yes, it is far from ideal perk, but its better than nothing.
I would rather have 10 survivalst-quality perks than nothing at all.
What the hell kind of comparison is that? We already got 9 good perks (Firebug balance issues aside), is it really that much to ask to get a proper perk with its own unique skills and actual worthiness in this game? You're totally missing the point here.

2Clicks said:
To answer your question about why would you have one in the team... probably not so much on random games. And in priv. groups probably not as much as specialist perks but I will play it. Alot will depend on how I find level 20-25 and who Im playing with and what perk their playing tbh.
That's you. One person. And even you admit that this perk presumably (certainly in my eyes) has no merits in both random AND private groups. So let me reiterate my question: What is the point of this perk? Why do we spend time and effort improving something that's a niche product (and I mean REALLY niche, like 1% niche) and not worth a sustained amount of time when we could and SHOULD be discussing over skills and a perk that's actually interesting?

Just because it's not bad doesn't mean it's good. And it will never, ever, ever be good. Because it's MADE to be mediocre.
 
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2Clicks

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 27, 2012
1,278
26
48
TheUndying;n2278264 said:
That's you. One person. And even you admit that this perk presumably (certainly in my eyes) has no merits in both random AND private groups. So let me reiterate my question: What is the point of this perk? Why do we spend time and effort improving something that's a niche product (and I mean REALLY niche, like 1% niche) and not worth a sustained amount of time when we could and SHOULD be discussing over skills and a perk that's actually interesting?

Just because it's not bad doesn't mean it's good. And it will never, ever, ever be good. Because it's MADE to be mediocre.
Says me. Says you! :rolleyes:

Ive already explained what I see the point of the perk to be. Many times over. If you dont get it, then you just dont get it. And that fine. Moreover if you dont enjoy playing it, thats fine too! There are plenty of other perks to use! I dont necessary find Demo fun to play and seems to be OP compared to the Surv. Ive voiced my opinion on it and dont feel the need to continue to do so. If its changed great. If not so be it.

For me this perk is all about the challenge of overcoming what is essentially quite an easy game (even on hoe) with its constraints. Even if the devs current (or going forwards) view of the perk isnt my cup of tea either. The concept seems somewhat murky at the moment so it would be good to see what they say and do in its next iteration of development.

If surv. is changed, so be it. If not then thats fine to. But then again Im the type of player that enjoyed playing KF1 handicapped with just a fireax or a knife and starting weapons/ammo on HoE. Once I get to the point of all maps done many times, perks to 25 and played through whatever variations of weapons/skills there are then I find the challenge of playing with limits fun and the only draw left to keep playing.

One thing I think both of us will agree on is that given the changes to all perks over the last year and a half I cant see this perk remaining as is. But perhaps unlike others, I will be interested in seeing whatever the devs decide to do and will be happy to accept it. If Im not happy with the perk then I will simply ignore it. Pretty much like I ignore Demo now. :)
 
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Fouts

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 15, 2015
154
7
0
All I know is that MP5+Zed-Splosion is fun as hell.

I love the flexibility of the class. My initial load out was RPG, DBS, and Deagle. I could take out Trash, Groups, and Big Zeds. I forced myself to experiment and found myself enjoying all sorts of hybrid classes.

Zerk-Medic, Support-Medic, SWAT-Firebug, Demmando, and let's not forget....classic sharpshooter (Gunslinger+New Sharpshooter). Reload buff split be damned.

I get a "Game Genie" feel from this perk and I love it.
 

DeadPlayer123

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2016
330
12
0
43
I found out also that suv have some very OP features that needs to be fixed, for instance :

1) It makes the support class obsolet, because you can do almost the same damage, carry all weapons support can carry, it cant yelt doors but it dosent matter in most games, and as a plus it have high damage resistance, can run away from zeds using bezerk speed, can heal itself very quickly, etc.

2) For the same reasons, it makes demolition also obsolete, I know some will say about the nuke and sonic resistance, but if you dont use nuke as some players its the same, and sonic resistance is not that much of a deal in trade of high resistance and speed.

3) Firebug also is obsolete now, currently the only problem with firebug is the low resistance to damage, if you can play with an perk doing the same damage but with high resistance why play with firebug ?

And how to fix it ? Its hard, firstly I would recommend reducing the carry weight from suv from 20 to 18, it would fix for the support issue. For demo and demolition thought, I dont know, it could have reduced damage like in 10%, I guess that would do...
 

2Clicks

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 27, 2012
1,278
26
48
DeadPlayer123;n2278312 said:
I found out also that suv have some very OP features that needs to be fixed, for instance :
1) It makes the support class obsolet, because you can do almost the same damage, carry all weapons support can carry, it cant yelt doors but it dosent matter in most games, and as a plus it have high damage resistance, can run away from zeds using bezerk speed, can heal itself very quickly, etc.
Is this in relation to games on hoe? Or lower diff. levels?

I wouldnt say obsolete. Once ppl get the perk to l25 they will depending on their playstyle, choose support. Afterall its the specialist for shotgun. Or it should be.

Support does much more damage with its shots and has higher penetration. Speaking of which maybe I imagined it but the survivalist seems to have decent to high penetration with shotguns anyway. Could this be a bug?

Support also carries more ammo. Has the resupply bag and as youve said, welds. *If* anything it probably needs a tweak down in terms of damage output and a tweak up in terms of resistance or armor protection. If you agree with the definition of its role as more tank than cannon!

Personally I think the extra carry cap. is probably too much. Great fun but as others have pointed out - needed to make the perk viable for some players. Maybe this needs to present an alt. option for +5 HE/Frag nades. Maybe even 5 nades of each. If another key could be assigned to throw a 2ndry nade type.

Just my thinking out loud.
 

random

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 19, 2012
1,302
6
0
don't think it goes so far as to make other perks obsolete, but sometimes comes too close to their performance depending or various things.

-yes 5 carry weight might be a lot, but it's also coupled with the terrible molotov so i almost never use that.
-penetration is a lot worse, very noticeable when you line them up, might need double ammo to do the same, but on single targets is negligible.
-on the demo i'd argue that its the m79/rpg fault for being too strong by themselves.
-on firebug you might do better than some configurations because you have some dot which sometimes the FB has none, and the zedxplosion, but you lose quite a bit of defensive stumble.

i do best with smgs/ars for trash since their main source of dmg is single shots, compared to other perk types of weapons that rely on a secondary dmg source as penetration.

the extra moving speed and durability is what has the potential to make this perk OP IMO, also as a bonus heavy armor training protects you from burning.
 

Ns5x

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2015
12
1
0
I'd rather they just get rid of it entirely. I was so hyped for the 10th perk, I was expecting Martial artist or Scientist and instead we get Survivalist.
 

DeadPlayer123

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2016
330
12
0
43
Ns5x;n2278432 said:
I'd rather they just get rid of it entirely. I was so hyped for the 10th perk, I was expecting Martial artist or Scientist and instead we get Survivalist.
The true is, TW, as any game dev company, cant wait to release the game, they cant spare much more money and time in the game anymore, to build new weapons, voices, special behaviors for zeds and players, etc, so they release an perk where the only thing they need to do is to twike some numbers for balance, it was an good idea and I did like the class, also they was right on that, expending time on an completely new class would prevent they to release it on date, to prepare new weapons, maps, take care on more important things.
 

DeadPlayer123

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2016
330
12
0
43
2Clicks;n2278354 said:
Is this in relation to games on hoe? Or lower diff. levels?
...
Hoe games, I have an friend that just played as support in the past, he is very good, now he is playing as suv with support only weapons, the trade of penetrations and yeld for high speed, damage resistance and the strong crossperk possibilities just worth it too much. Also, I forgot to mention another class that is obsolete now, SWAT...
Obs: We are all lvl 25, its so easy to up to 25 that its a joke, I get up my suv to 25 in 2 days ( of course no perk trainning maps ).
 
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2Clicks

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 27, 2012
1,278
26
48
DeadPlayer123;n2278512 said:
Hoe games, I have an friend that just played as support in the past, he is very good, now he is playing as suv with support only weapons, the trade of penetrations and yeld for high speed, damage resistance and the strong crossperk possibilities just worth it too much. Also, I forgot to mention another class that is obsolete now, SWAT...
Obs: We are all lvl 25, its so easy to up to 25 that its a joke, I get up my suv to 25 in 2 days ( of course no perk trainning maps ).
Well then its pendulum is swinging back towards how OP this concept would be when the first discussions where posted on this forum. Im about to get to HoE maps in one or two levels (am 21 atm.) So I expect to see this firsthand. I suspect to find that you will be right! My suspicions have grown as Ive played through difficulties. Still its not a direct replacement for medic - still need one in most pub games, esp. at the boss - unless there are two medic-minded players at the end. Supp/Demo/SWAT/Mando all bring an extra ability with their inclusion in terms of the team dynamic so I wouldnt necessarily say ppl will cont. to play it too long after max level. As I see it now its more a perk for trying out mixed-perk weapon play rather than a specialist. I know one Demo player who doesnt play with the RPG but prefers the nade launcher + dbs.

Overall its still hard to say where this perk will end up. So many possibilities that I cant see TW keeping everyone happy.
 

random

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 19, 2012
1,302
6
0
the support part is a bit expected, since the high pace and spawns makes not likely to line up so many zeds, so penetration is not that useful all the time, you certainly have a lot of less potential dmg than the support, but in practice is not that different.

i think the weapon i used the most with the surv was the scar in single fire mode, for trash it's pretty much a m14 with tons and tons of ammo, with the added zedxplosion bonus. made my acc go up too.

the quick reload thing at the end of zed time is a bug right? was plenty useful, maybe too much.
 

M34T-B4G_441

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 25, 2014
122
6
0
I'll just post my rework suggestion here...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[SKILLS]

+0.6% Weapon Damage/LV
+0.8% Weapon Swap Speed/LV
+0.8% Ammo Reserves/LV
+1 Carrying Capacity/5 LV
Suffers no Slowdown from Weight.

[EQUIPMENT]

STARTING WEAPON: Dual 9mms
KNIFE: Kitchen Knife
GRENADE: Pipe Bomb - Deals 20% Less damage than a HE Grenade. Can buy an addon for D$200.

Frost - -40% Damage, Freezes and Slows enemy Zeds.
Pyro - -20% Damage, Creates a carpet of flame that slows and sets Zeds on fire.
Nitro - +40% Damage, +15% Blast Radius.
Medi - -40% Damage, Heals 40 HP over 5 Seconds, applies a toxic DoT
Stinger - -20% Damage, Stuns Zeds.

[PERKS]

* LV 5 - Survival

¬ Oiled Joints
+10% Movement Speed, increased to 25% when below 50% Health. Cannot be grabbed by Clots.

¬ Sturdy
+25% Maximum Health and Armor.

* LV 10 - Vitality

¬ Vampiric Trance
+1 Health per Second. +1 Health on kill (Doubled if Melee Kill.)

¬ Medical Training
+50% Increased potency of all healing. Syringe only consumes half charge when healing allies.

* LV 15 - Trigger Discipline

¬ Combat Training
+10% Weapon Damage. +20% Headshot Damage.

¬ Oppressive Fire
+100% Stumble and 50% Stun Power with all weapons.

* LV 20 - Cull the Herd

¬ Full-Metal Jacket
+Weapons ignore 50% of a target's damage resistances. +15% Bonus Damage to targets below 50% Health.

¬ Spontaneous Zed-Splosion
+20% Chance for Zeds to explode in a wave of blood, damaging and knocking around nearby Zeds.

* LV 25 - Mayhem (ZED TIME)

¬ Reset Button:
+First Grenade becomes a Cluster Bomb. Immune to Sonic Damage and explodes into 5 Pipe Bombs.

¬ Action Star:
+100% Fire Rate. If clip is empty, consumes reserve ammunition instead of reloading.
 
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Reactions: TheUndying

WeretigerRei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 24, 2015
577
5
0
Yoshiro;n2278149 said:
We are watching player feedback on the perk now that they have had hands on with it. There are several camps and we are keeping a close eye on the feedback from all of them. Those who like it, those who see potential in it but don't think it stands up and those who don't. We will continue to iterate on the Survivalist and other aspects of the game as we move ahead. Development doesn't stop and feedback/iteration end, just because we reached launch.
I do indeed feel that the Survivalist is fun, but its extremely limiting its effectiveness is lacking. I dont think you should scrap it. It just needs more tuning

DeadPlayer123;n2278242 said:
Only if you play with the left skills, if you play as combat medic using the right skills its pretty much the same, just the damage using crossperk is worse and that is why now the combat medic is the suv.
Youre joking right? Medic innately gets 200% syringe recharge and 50% healing potency. Right skills dont change this one bit.
 
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DeadPlayer123

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2016
330
12
0
43
WeretigerRei;n2278661 said:
Youre joking right? Medic innately gets 200% syringe recharge and 50% healing potency. Right skills dont change this one bit.
Suv have some bonus, its not so great as medic, but you know, combat medics dont heal ofen anyway, they just have healing granades for emergencies, my point is, if you want to play as combat medic you should go with suvirvalist, not as medic now.