Let's help TWI fix survivalist quickly.

[Veny]

Give him unique weapons and stats, otherwise it's a completely useless and boring class.

Changing numbers on reload speed, coil reduction and damage won't do the trick.

Yeah, some homemade weapons would be awesome. Plus offperk bonus would be nice too (as it is now).

 

[Veny]

Here's my suggestion:

Passives:

Global damage resistance 40% on lvl 25
Bonus weapon damage 30% on lvl 25
25% more health on lvl 25
25% more armor on lvl 25

Skills:

Level 5
Tactical Training- All weapons reload speed increased by 30% and weapon switch speed by 40%
Combat Training- All ranged weapons deal 15% more damage and 20% icreased magazine size

Level 10
Medic Training- Increase the potency of all your healing by 20% and decrease the cooldown of your syringe and healing darts by 50%
Martial Artist(hehe)- When using melee weapons increased damage by 15% and 25% more movment and attack speed

Level 15
Ammo Vest- Carry up to 20% more ammo for all your weapons plus additional granade and your grenades are swapped out for Healing Grenades
Weapon Harness- Increase carrying capacity by 5, you start game with additional random T1 weapon and your grenades are swapped out for Molotov cocktails

Level 20
Bullseye - 50% more bullet penetration and 20% increased headshot damage
Destroyer- Increase area of effect of all explosives by 30% and fire weapons range by 25%

Level 25
Fast Hands- Durning ZED time you reload and switch weapons in real time
Rampage- During ZED time all your weapons shoot 3x faster, additionaly melee attacks in real time

Passives(Optional):

Survivalist Instinct- (Activated by holding flashlight button) For 10 seconds you can see throught the walls big zeds and bosses positions, you can see also ammo packs, armor vests and weapons lying on the ground (30 sec. coldown)

New item:

Survivalist Tool Kit- Once per round you can drop survivalist tool kit, you and your teammates can grab package.
Effect: Instantly regenarate 20 hp, 15 armor, gives 15% ammo, additionaly recharge syringe and flashlight battery.

I would prefer more ammo and more carry limit as passive. Choosing between options of grenade + equip is very limiting. And actually there is no reason for survivalist with 15 carry cap - you can use regular perks with regular perk weapons. Survivalist should offer something special f.e. carrying two T4 weapons you choose. Thats why i prefer carry cap as passive (dont care if it gonna be +5 since level 1, or +1 each 5 levels)

 

[callumg1988]

Wouldnt that make the survivlist 'too' much like those perks? The overall design seems to have been made to encapsulate facets from every (read most) perks currently in the game. Perhaps though the designers of this perk havent got the right mix just yet. Some ppl like some of the stuff, others want much broader options. Given the range of options anything is possible - as long as they dont give it an insta kill weapon/skill/passive combo that some perks have like the Sharp or Demo and to some extent; SWAT and GS. And here lies its biggest problem - most players want one.

Yeah fair enough mate, you might be right with that. To be honest I'm thinking about running Zerk with a nade launcher... that'd be sweet lol, but maybe I'm better just being exactly that and not use Survivalist, but I'm d/l beta so will have to play and see how I go, it'd be cool if the perk is underpowered, up and until a skilled player fills that gap and exceeds it, that's probably the best place to be. The issue I have for e.g is swapping out nades for the worst ones without choice and just getting basically 2 demo skills at same level...

WeretigerRei Good suggestions mate, like what you posted, the tree TW have done wouldn't need much tweaking to make ita bit less pigeon holed!

 

[DeadPlayer123]

I just reach level 25 with suv, I found it to be an fine perk, I am already playing on Hoe and its fine.
My only complain is about the lvl 15 removing your best granade commando option, I dont get it why I am forced to use molotov when at level 14 I was using an good comando granade, it just make level 14 stronger then level 15 for no reason.
My sugestion : change molotov to comando granades, do just that and this class is fine.
Also, this is not an class for noobs, you need to be pro in all other classes to form good combinations, do that and you will have an very OP class to play and help your team.

 

[Jorick]

I just reach level 25 with suv, I found it to be an fine perk, I am already playing on Hoe and its fine.
My only complain is about the lvl 15 removing your best granade commando option, I dont get it why I am forced to use molotov when at level 14 I was using an good comando granade, it just make level 14 stronger then level 15 for no reason.
My sugestion : change molotov to comando granades, do just that and this class is fine.
Also, this is not an class for noobs, you need to be pro in all other classes to form good combinations, do that and you will have an very OP class to play and help your team.

Or, you could just play any other class who does the job MUCH better, and pick up an off perk weapon to compensate for the weaknesses of your class. Why would people even play a perk whose benefits are only some increased carrying capacity and a 25% global resistance ? You don't. That's the simple answer. Even more so if you know you can do the job far better even with 15 slots and if you have a medic half decently healing you. This perk is mediocre at best, don't try to make it look like some godly MLG class, because it's just embarrassing, even more so when your main argument is "it's not for noobs" and "class is fine".

It's like saying that if you got an RPG and some random guns filling your 11 slots left, you're going to be more of an asset to the team than a demolitionist who knows what he's doing, and chose to complement his RPG with a P90 : it's just not going to happen.

 

[DeadPlayer123]

Or, you could just play any other class who does the job MUCH better, and pick up an off perk weapon to compensate for the weaknesses of your class. Why would people even play a perk whose benefits are only some increased carrying capacity and a 25% global resistance ? You don't. That's the simple answer. Even more so if you know you can do the job far better even with 15 slots and if you have a medic half decently healing you. This perk is mediocre at best, don't try to make it look like some godly MLG class, because it's just embarrassing, even more so when your main argument is "it's not for noobs" and "class is fine".

It's like saying that if you got an RPG and some random guns filling your 11 slots left, you're going to be more of an asset to the team than a demolitionist who knows what he's doing, and chose to complement his RPG with a P90 : it's just not going to happen.

That is a mistake, suv have some noticeable advantages that is not possible in any other class.
My current setup are :
* SWAT+Bezerker, where I can really help the team killing small zeds and also can easily kill FPs, its not possible with any other class. With this also I can go running the map with bezerker teams helping they healing with granades etc.
* Demolition + Medic : its also not possible with any other class to play as demolition killing FPs and small zeds with RPG and at the same time efficiently heal your team with the medic rifle.
Also probably there are other OP combinations that can be used, I saw people using support+medic, gunslinger+medic etc. So you just need to know how to play with it, as I said, its not an easy class to play, but its really is an good class.
I fell that this class came to fill the combat medic needs, that is not welcome in the currently medic setup and function because of positioning and etc. I just hope they change the medic right side skills to something else now.
Obs: I play with all classes and I am lvl 25 with all.

 

[random]

^yes he has various strong combinations, he tends to shine more when someone is not filling his role that well, so you can do 2 medium power perks at once, or 3. he is also pretty decent at boss fights.

however that is not necessarily a good thing, depends on your tastes, on one side it can disrupt the teamplay because you dont know what to expect of them, and even if that was not the case, the skill tree is quite restrictive for a jack of all trades. i don't see myself playing it much after finishing leveling it. currently lvl20.

 

[Rattler]

Maybe its the kind of perk though that can actually benefit those who's good skills can capitalise on a broader play style. For e.g, I consider myself a very competent beserker, but when I play Commando or SS (or even SWAT, support, demo, medic etc), I am quite competent also. This although lacking hard hitting dedicated perk power, like a full zerk or full mando could mean maybe for someone like me who is good with gun AND blade, zerk skill for parrying and blocking etc could make up for damage resistance of a zerk but give you more options to off perk a scar or something like that and not let team down. The biggest concern I have (I haven't played new perk yet) is the firebug/demo 'lean' in skill selections. Maybe extra damage with rifles and melee weapons, plus quicker reloading would give all the power you need in a skilled player? Just a few thoughts to put out there

Thats not the point. It doesn't matter how competent you are. The numbers are going to screw you over, even if you are THE LEETEST OF THE ELITE demo, someone who's playing with the demo class will outperform you due to the better bonuses and dmg dealt, compared to the surv. The same goes for the comm.

The Survivalist is exactly what it name says - surviving among the other classes who actually are doing their job while the surv, yeah, he's just surviving, not fighting

 

[WeretigerRei]

That is a mistake, suv have some noticeable advantages that is not possible in any other class.
My current setup are :
* SWAT+Bezerker, where I can really help the team killing small zeds and also can easily kill FPs, its not possible with any other class. With this also I can go running the map with bezerker teams helping they healing with granades etc.
* Demolition + Medic : its also not possible with any other class to play as demolition killing FPs and small zeds with RPG and at the same time efficiently heal your team with the medic rifle.
Also probably there are other OP combinations that can be used, I saw people using support+medic, gunslinger+medic etc. So you just need to know how to play with it, as I said, its not an easy class to play, but its really is an good class.
I fell that this class came to fill the combat medic needs, that is not welcome in the currently medic setup and function because of positioning and etc. I just hope they change the medic right side skills to something else now.
Obs: I play with all classes and I am lvl 25 with all.

The medic skills given to Survivalist are paltry. They arent even a a fifth of what the medic can do.

 

[2Clicks]

^yes he has various strong combinations, he tends to shine more when someone is not filling his role that well, so you can do 2 medium power perks at once, or 3. he is also pretty decent at boss fights.

however that is not necessarily a good thing, depends on your tastes, on one side it can disrupt the teamplay because you dont know what to expect of them, and even if that was not the case, the skill tree is quite restrictive for a jack of all trades. i don't see myself playing it much after finishing leveling it. currently lvl20.

I dont agree with your assertion that its "quite restrictive" - unless you mean limited in the choices you can make, or limited in the bonuses you can get. But you can play anything really.... just most of it has to be off-perk!

Thats not the point. It doesn't matter how competent you are. The numbers are going to screw you over, even if you are THE LEETEST OF THE ELITE demo, someone who's playing with the demo class will outperform you due to the better bonuses and dmg dealt, compared to the surv. The same goes for the comm.

The Survivalist is exactly what it name says - surviving among the other classes who actually are doing their job while the surv, yeah, he's just surviving, not fighting

Again... fair points. I would ask you one question - why are you even comparing the Survivalist to what is essentially a specialist perk (demo)?

They are not the same and going by the overall design never meant to be. Unless you see the survivalist perk for what it is... essentially a handicapped perk for players who want a challenge + the chance to play with whatever wpns they so choose then its not a perk to be chosen. The same goes for someone who values precision over big bang bangs... and would choose Sharpie over Demo for instance.

Thats just my view ofc. I can also see this perks niche as being the one who can outlast other perks and be able to complete levels by using whatever weapons get dropped by dead players, if they are lucky enough to match the skills currently chosen (hence I believe the reason for the Swat prot. passive). That would be the case at least if it were a little more tanky. As it is - only really good players that know how to survive potential wipes with crazy fingers and fast reflexes will probably get the most out of this perk. At least on HoE.

Lets just agree that as a concept the survivalist is true to its remit. But as a perk/feature alot of ppl dont like it and TW need to reconsider exactly what its purpose is in the game. Do they stick? Or do they twist?

 

[2Clicks]

The medic skills given to Survivalist are paltry. They arent even a a fifth of what the medic can do.

Nor should they be (on a comparable level.) Its not a replacement or alternative healing perk. Its a healing augment for the group. Or if enough ppl have the heal nades and use healing wpns more of collective healing effort rather than a single lone healer. If you dont agree, think of it this way..... if your medic isnt protected by the group or dies to some stupid or cheesy issue then you have a temporary backup. At least till waves end.

However - until this concept of group healing catches on... surviving the boss level isnt going to be a given. Ive only managed it with randoms twice on sui. And 3 or 4 defeats so far. On hoe I dont think it will even be possible wo a dedicated medic and a strongly armed group.

This is going to sound pessimistic, but nuke the whole class. The entire idea is bad. Just scrap it from the game and make a different tenth perk in a couple months.

Sry I missed this.... I disagree that its an entirely bad idea. It has its merits but only among players who understand that its not a specialist perk. Its biggest problem is that its niche.... "the ultimate challenge on HoE" isnt recognised or accepted by everyone. But there you go.

Ill be sorry to see it go if does but not as sorry as the Martial Artist not being implemented! Though I highly doubt it will go. Tweaked beyond recognition most likely.

How ironic that the 'Survivalist's' biggest challenge is actually surviving long enough to be accepted by the community. ^^

 

[TheUndying]

"The ultimate challenge on HOE"... and how many games is this gonna ruin, until a) the person playing this copout gits gud enough to carry and fight on his own?
b) the person in question gives up trying, because it's too hard?

You must be a very optimistic person in reality, but I myself see this in a less positive light.
It simply isn't a valuable asset to the team, whatever he does can be done better and faster, no matter how skilled you are, you will always be a minor to major hindrance. Why would anyone bother having one in the team?

EDIT: And not a single word in the last week from TWI about this messy pos. Can't wait for the release bois!

 

[Jorick]

It simply isn't a valuable asset to the team, whatever he does can be done better and faster, no matter how skilled you are, you will always be a minor to major hindrance. Why would anyone bother having one in the team?

EDIT: And not a single word in the last week from TWI about this messy pos. Can't wait for the release bois!

This is survivalist summed up. A mess of bits from other perks that worsens your ability to do anything effectively in a team, while he should be able to fill the gaps left by your team effectively. But the worst things I think, aren't the perk and its terrible tree, but the fact TWI had 3 freaking weeks after the announcement, and changed NOTHING after they'd gotten feedback from the players. To make things worse, they aren't communicating on what they're planning to do, after numerous users of this forum, including me, have posted reworks that are much more effective than the current perk and that would require only minor adjustments from their part. What a f*cking mess.

 

[2Clicks]

You must be a very optimistic person in reality, but I myself see this in a less positive light.
It simply isn't a valuable asset to the team, whatever he does can be done better and faster, no matter how skilled you are, you will always be a minor to major hindrance. Why would anyone bother having one in the team?

Whats the survivalist got to do with me? Im just offering an opinion albeit it in this case versus the popular view from the vocal part of the community. I respect that you dont like it and I agree alot with whats been said. But I can perhaps see what TW were trying to do - though without some livestream or whatever its hard to judge.

The more I play it (to lvl 18 so far on norm-sui) the more I agree that it doesnt quite cut the mustard for a standard perk "specialist" but.... I cant agree with it not carrying its weight. Ive seen average and bad players play as demo or sharpie or med on lvl 25 and others having to carry them.

To answer your question about why would you have one in the team... probably not so much on random games. And in priv. groups probably not as much as specialist perks but I will play it. Alot will depend on how I find level 20-25 and who Im playing with and what perk their playing tbh.

But that just conforms to my blinkered view that perks dont get carried.... ppl do.

 

[Veny]

This is going to sound pessimistic, but nuke the whole class. The entire idea is bad. Just scrap it from the game and make a different tenth perk in a couple months.

I have never understand attitude "bad feature is worse than no feature" and i fail to understand it now. From what i saw, people are enjoying this perk (me included). Yes, it is far from ideal perk, but its better than nothing.
I would rather have 10 survivalst-quality perks than nothing at all.

 

[Yoshiro]

We are watching player feedback on the perk now that they have had hands on with it. There are several camps and we are keeping a close eye on the feedback from all of them. Those who like it, those who see potential in it but don't think it stands up and those who don't. We will continue to iterate on the Survivalist and other aspects of the game as we move ahead. Development doesn't stop and feedback/iteration end, just because we reached launch.

 

[Radio4ctive]

We are watching player feedback on the perk now that they have had hands on with it. There are several camps and we are keeping a close eye on the feedback from all of them. Those who like it, those who see potential in it but don't think it stands up and those who don't. We will continue to iterate on the Survivalist and other aspects of the game as we move ahead. Development doesn't stop and feedback/iteration end, just because we reached launch.

Survivalist just need some tweaks and will be ok, keep good work. Btw. new berserk weapon and gorefaster will be added before christmas or later?

 

[Jorick]

Ive seen average and bad players play as demo or sharpie or med on lvl 25 and others having to carry them.

Mr A is a great player, he played Killing Floor 2 for a long time. So did Mr B, he also played KF2 for the same amount of time. They have the same player skill, and knowledge of maps, or mechanics. But Mr A prefers to stick to tried and true classes, whose he knows how effective they are, and what are their strengths and weaknesses. On the other side of the fence, Mr B sees a new perk released, he loves it, very fun perk that allows you to pick any weapon, and to carry more than usual, he's therefore going to play it, and meets Mr A ingame.

Mr B gets into an argument with Mr A about the effectiveness of this new perk he just fell in love with. That's where the problem begins to show : when Mr B wants to heal his team with his perk, he isn't even a shadow of what Mr A can do as a medic, when he wants to kill fleshpounds & scrakes, he's still inferior to Mr A when he plays as a sharpshooter or as a demolitionist, and so on and so forth on this point. But when Mr B admits that Mr A is better for specialized roles, he also claims that he has better survability with this perk, and can use effectively weapons to negate the weaknesses of his primary weapon. Mr A, playing demolitionist, just says : my RPG with +100% damage bonus and my offperk P90 will be better than your RPG and P90, with their petty 15% damage bonus which changes nothing on the bigger picture. Mr A will always perform better, unless he's getting hit a lot, since he lacks the resistance of this new perk.

TLDR : please, to everyone in this thread, quit saying you can carry scrubs as a survivalist, or people with mainstream perks can be terrible as hell, because that's stating the obvious. But a player who played all classes up to level 25 will ALWAYS perform better if he keeps his main weapon on his perk, and just adds something else to the mix to complement what he's good/make him better when his effectiveness starts to go down; rather than when he play survivalist.

Not convinced ? Take the survivalist, any set of skills you want, do your thing on any server, then get back to this same server, take any perk you want, off perk a weapon like the SMGs or the DBS (or anything you're comfortable with), while keeping your main perk weapon, and make a comparison. Yes, you're just killing fleshpounds quicker, or clearing trash more efficiently, while not having that much a loss in healing effectiveness (if you're not playing medic), the only difference you perhaps noticed is a tiny loss in survivability (25% resistance is big, I admit, but that's the only good thing about this freaking perk). I let you draw any conclusion you want, but if you persist in saying the Survivalist has a place in the big picture, then you're either completely crazy, or actually needed those 25% resistance and 20 weapon slots so badly that you'd sell ALL of the remaining perk benefits to have them, which means you've some sort of weird fetish. I won't judge you on that, but be wary that you're not a lot to feel this way for this perk.

We are watching player feedback on the perk now that they have had hands on with it. There are several camps and we are keeping a close eye on the feedback from all of them. Those who like it, those who see potential in it but don't think it stands up and those who don't. We will continue to iterate on the Survivalist and other aspects of the game as we move ahead. Development doesn't stop and feedback/iteration end, just because we reached launch.

Reassures me that some devs actually read the threads about survivalist, you guys are so silent about this matter it just worries the hell out of me sometimes.

 

[Radio4ctive]

Reassures me that some devs actually read the threads about survivalist, you guys are so silent about this matter it just worries the hell out of me sometimes.

They always watching, but they also are hidden in the darkness. So some people doesn't see them.

 

[2Clicks]

I let you draw any conclusion you want, but if you persist in saying the Survivalist has a place in the big picture, then you're either completely crazy, or actually needed those 25% resistance and 20 weapon slots so badly that you'd sell ALL of the remaining perk benefits to have them, which means you've some sort of weird fetish. I won't judge you on that, but be wary that you're not a lot to feel this way for this perk.

Subjective is as subjective does.