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Lack of cross perks?

Apr 23, 2015
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3
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I've noticed that there has been a lack of cross perking with the weapons recently. Now I know it might be a tad difficult to balance with multiple perks, but then you balance weapons with them that make less sense.

So, regarding the new weapons:
Buckshot should be gunslinger
Hrg Nailgun should might be berserker?
Healthrower firebug?
Incision sharpshooter
Grenade rifle Demolitions?
Mosin berzerker
Riot glock Berzerker? and Gunslinger?
I feel like these weapons do fill in these rolls appropriately, This allows every perk to have a medic weapon to help with the healing, especially on the harder difficulties if the medic isn't there. I don't think the nailguns are berserker, but if one is, both should be. Maybe retool the Yuletide bundle weapons and make them better for close combat.

And regarding weapons that shouldn't be crossperked:
Winchester and centerfire should not be gunslinger
9mm, 1858, spitfire, and magnum should not be sharpshooter.
VLAD shouldn't be berserker.
The first two are solely because they don't make sense for their perk. The sniper should not have revolvers, for whatever reason, and pistolier shouldn't have lever action rifles. While I will not be dissuaded from the rifles being removed, I can be persuaded to keep in the single pistols for sharpshooter if you add all the dual pistols single pistol to it. Otherwise, it makes no sense. And the nailgun for the same reason as above. nailguns should both be berserker, or neither. I lean towards neither.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,660
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Part of the reason we have been doing HRG weapons is balancing a cross perk weapon has become a fairly difficult proposal with how cross perk works off the same base stats but with two different sets of bonses applied on top. Gettin to to feel "good" but not "OP or "bad" on one of the perks while being "good" for the main perk has proven to be quite the challenge. So the HRG weapons allow us to take those weapons and spread them out a bit more and keep the balance more under control.
 
Apr 23, 2015
68
3
8
Fair enough.
I might suggest looking into the gunslinger/sharpshooter crossperks that don't need to be, that way those guns can be further fine tuned to their perk, rather than to two.
And I would still strongly suggest crossperking the medic weapons. It would be a boon so that every perk has a way of minoring in the medic without needing to lose out on their favourite perks.
 

flashn00b

Active member
Feb 1, 2011
716
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I feel like there are some weapons where cross-perking would greatly improve the usefulness of certain weapons while not necessarily making them overpowered.

IMO, here's what I think would benefit from being cross-perk weapons

Singular 1911
With the 1858 Revolvers doing the same damage, there isn't much to justify the 1911's usage on the Gunslinger. Heck, upgrading the Medic Pistol once will allow it to deal similar damage while also being able to heal teammates. I still think that the singular 1911 should count as a Gunslinger/Commando cross perk weapon since the gun has often been hailed as the original Commando weapon before video games were even a thing. On a gameplay standpoint, giving the 1911 to Commando grants him access to a 12 round sidearm that can deal 77.5 damage assuming the player is Level 25 and is using High Capacity Magazines and Hollow Point Rounds, which will definitely be a welcome addition for the earlier waves. (I find that Wave 3 is around the point where you will want multiple perk weapons as a Commando)

Mosin Nagant
I think i've made a thread about its questionable usefulness due to its weight and damage output, and my suggestion for it was to simply make it a Zerker weapon first and Sharpshooter weapon second. Allowing the Zerker to benefit from the Nagant would allow him to better deal with husks and bloats while usage of the Parry skill will also improve the weapon's gun damage. Also, seeing that the Nagant does maximum damage when firing just after a bayonet stab, I think it's reasonable to believe that only the Berserker would be able to exploit this damage boost due to his damage resistance. Assuming you are a Level 25 Zerker with Smash and Parry, I think it'd be worth posting a breakdown of damage bonuses if the Nagant was a Zerekr weapon

Bayonet stab: 100
Passive Perk weapon damage at Level 25: 25
Smash (+25% Headshot damage): 25
Parry (+35% Perk weapon damage for 10 seconds): 35
Base damage: 250
Passive Perk weapon damage at Level 25: 62.5
Smash (+25% Headshot damage): 62.5
Parry (+35% perk weapon damage for 10 seconds): 87.5
Damage increase when stabbing: Unknown (Can't seem to find this info on the official spreadsheet)

Max damage w/ Bayonet stab: 185
Max damage w/ gun: >462.5
Total max damage: >647.5

Sure, that's a lot of damage, but I think factoring in individual player skill can balance things out as bayonets can often be difficult to aim from my experience with KF2. For players that can consistently land headstabs with their bayonets, they can definitely go to down on fleshpounds with a World War II rifle, but the higher tier melees will definitely get more consistent results due to their ease of use.

Freezethrower
Honestly feels underwhelming to such a degree that whenever I play Survivalist, I forget that he even has perk weapons in the first place. Even though it isn't an incendiary weapon, I feel like the best way to buff it is to make it a Firebug weapon as doing so would allow it to benefit from a lot of things. The fact that it's also a spray weapon seems like it'd be something the Firebug would use, tbh.

Bring The Heat: Self-explanatory
Barbecue: No damage increases but zeds are frozen for longer
Ground Fire: Increased slowdown effect from ground ice
Napalm: Zeds won't be frozen on contact with frozen zeds, zeds are frozen for longer
ZED Shrapnel: Self-explanatory
Heat Wave and Firestorm: Self-explanatory
Pyromaniac: Unlimited ammo, will probably fire in real time with the alt-fire
Inferno: Increased slowdown effect
 
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Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
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The main issue I see with crossperking is that sometimes, TW crossperks just for the sake of crossperking. Like... Do the gunslinger really need the HX-25 and spitfires? Just for the sake of being pistols? Come on...

On the other hand, giving the .500 to the sharp is a blessing. Because it's lightweight, making it the most perfect secondary weapon to a single-fire, highly damaging primary.

And I think that's how everything should be done.

Why would the firebug get the healthrower? He's not a medic...
Why should the G18 become a gunslinger weapon? He's not about full-auto guns...
What would the incision bring that the Railgun doesn't?

I simply believe we need to think more cleverly about it all.
 

s5yn3t

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 20, 2015
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Actually HX25 can have its use on a slinger (thing saved me a lot of time prestiging that perk)

But i do agree with spitfires..... more over why Sharp has access to a spitfire? if its useless on slinger, its even beyond useless on a sharp, might as well give hx25 to a sharp as it would bring some use to defending yourself than just shooting whole drum of a spitfire to kill 1 cyst.
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
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Belgium
I do believe that part of the slinger's role is to precisely be a more nimble sharpshooter... which may deal less damage, but dispense it quicker.

The HX-25 doesn't really fit this philosophy IMO. If at least you could dual-wield them just for fun...

But I do get that it might be a great "last resort" gun for the perk. But I often have both multiple pistols AND quicker reloads to make up for it.