well if you enjoy spawncamping, have yourself a cookie and congratulate yourself on ruining a game for others. Heres hoping they'll fix this in the next update.
Komissars
- Thread starter hekuball
- Start date
well if you enjoy spawncamping, have yourself a cookie and congratulate yourself on ruining a game for others. Heres hoping they'll fix this in the next update.
This map and GE are the hardest maps for attackers, but superior players and better team players can win both of them quite often for attackers. I'd like to see the lockdown timer vanish after you take E or at least two of the following 3 points: E, F and H. One thing I often find with 64 players this map and GE have in common is the attacking team can have the better players, but if the defenders push the points hard they will run out of reinforcements right before/after the lockdown on F for CH or C for GE. For GE its partially the fault of attackers not getting in the point, but for CH you can't quite kill them all in under 14-15 minutes.
"Spawn camping increases my K/D ratio, therefore it's a good thing"
"Spawn camping increases my K/D ratio, therefore it's a good thing"
I've played RO2 for the past 3 weeks, and I frequently (= every 15 minutes) saw soldiers doing everything they can to spawn camp.
It's really sad to see that, especially when they are on your team :
In a team of 16-20 players, you can be sure there is ALWAYS 3 to 5 players who won't play the objectives at all, but will use the longest route to get as close as they can to the enemy spawn.
Spawn zones camp (= players camping spawn area, but not always instantly killing the spawning players) is still a strong problem in RO2.
---
Example :
Map is made of A, B, C, D, E, F capture zone. Team-1 captured A, B, C, D.
3 to 5 Team-2 players will avoid any combat, they'll never try to capture D or defend E.
Instead, they'll sneak right next to the Team 1 spawn.
Way enough to lose.
---
Valid tactic ?
---
"It's a valid tactic ! if you're not happy, go play something else !
"
"L2P NUB"
"It can easily be fixed with teamwork"
Got anything else to add ?
Right.
---
Spawn camping, even if the spawn camped can actually run 3 meters before getting shot, is a disaster in terms of gameplay experience.
1) It shifts the focus from capture zones to the spawn zones.
Problems:
A tactical assault requires quick planning, coordination and movements. If the probability of getting shot less than 5 seconds after spawning reach a certain level, no assault is possible.
Instead, if you camp from your spawn and try to snip from some corners, waiting for the unsuspecting enemies getting closer since no one is attacking, you'll be contributing to your team !
=> you're not dying due to an enemy right outside of spawn AND you're lowering the amount of reinforcements for the enemy team.
3) It's negating teamwork
a) No teamwork can prevent getting shot by surprise right outside the spawn.
The only solution would be keeping half of the team camping/sniping from the actual spawn, constantly.
It always proved interesting for the gameplay experience, right ? Having half of your team camping and not playing the objectives, must be extremely funny to experience.
And even then, it's rarely efficient against spawn camping.
Also, once the 5-10 kills are made, you can't get them back : you can pour tons and tons of teamwork over it, it's still 1-2 enemy / 5-10 teamates losses. And it will happen again soon.
b) Spawn camping is only done effectively (and actually) by lone players, sometime 2 players teaming up by accident. If it gets too much players they'll get noticed and BOOM spawn camp attempt failed (and they won't be enough defenders to hold the spawn camped team).
Bonus point :
4) What's the point in having smoke grenades, if Squad Leaders and Commanders have to use 80% of their Smoke to cover the spawn zone only ?!
=> on many maps, the spawn zones requires 3 to 4 smokes to be secured.
With only 1 or 2 smokes remaining, it's becoming much more difficult to attack an enemy position... and camping is the only way to fight spawn camping...
=> So why would you bother attacking ?
---
In RO1, spawn camp was much harder because of the map design, the slow pace of the game, slow movements and map size.
Sadly, RO2 faster pace and maps are very vulnerable to systematic spawn camping.
It seems TWI don't really care about it :
---
Funfact :
I read some late 1990s archives talking about Team Fortress (the Quake 1 mod), and found out that spawn campers and glitchers invaded the game too when it became "popular".
So the veterans/true fans created a system where you needed to register an account to connect to the server.
You could no longer ruin the fun and get away with it so easily, and it filtered out the immature who refused to take 2 minutes to create an account.
The system eventually faded away, as most people weren't willing to register on this system so there wasn't enough players/new players to make it viable.
And many veterans, server owners and important members of the Team Fortress (Quake 1 mod) community stopped playing the game, stopped renting servers, because of the destructive behavior of some players and the global passivity of the others.
I feel like quitting too, maybe I've had enough of this and can no longer "hope" things will get better
"Spawn camping increases my K/D ratio, therefore it's a good thing"
+1
I've played RO2 for the past 3 weeks, and I frequently (= every 15 minutes) saw soldiers doing everything they can to spawn camp.
nb: Instant spawn kill is just lame and should be a kick + temporary ban in my opinion, it's not improving the gameplay nor the realism/immersion, it's just some players exploiting a game flaw.
Same with arty on spawn, it should get you kicked.
The exact same thing is done frequently on Call of Duty and Battlefield ("baserape" "basecamp") games and is often a reason for a temp-ban/perma-ban from the server.
---Same with arty on spawn, it should get you kicked.
The exact same thing is done frequently on Call of Duty and Battlefield ("baserape" "basecamp") games and is often a reason for a temp-ban/perma-ban from the server.
It's really sad to see that, especially when they are on your team :
a) If you're losing because there's not enough people in the capzone, you know who's missing, who's not here, doing cheap kills and ruining the fun for the enemy team.
b) If you're winning, it feels so much like a stolen victory, you just want to stop playing and wait for round restart/map change, the disgust is too much to handle. What's the point in playing 14 vs 6, just because some of your teamate decided to spawn camp ?
---b) If you're winning, it feels so much like a stolen victory, you just want to stop playing and wait for round restart/map change, the disgust is too much to handle. What's the point in playing 14 vs 6, just because some of your teamate decided to spawn camp ?
In a team of 16-20 players, you can be sure there is ALWAYS 3 to 5 players who won't play the objectives at all, but will use the longest route to get as close as they can to the enemy spawn.
Spawn zones camp (= players camping spawn area, but not always instantly killing the spawning players) is still a strong problem in RO2.
---
Example :
Map is made of A, B, C, D, E, F capture zone. Team-1 captured A, B, C, D.
3 to 5 Team-2 players will avoid any combat, they'll never try to capture D or defend E.
Instead, they'll sneak right next to the Team 1 spawn.
Then they'll get 5 to 10 cheap kills, then get shot.
Then they'll come back at a slightly different spot, 5 to 10 cheap kills, rinse and repeat.
=> with a standard 150-200 reinforcement, that's about 30% of reinforcements wasted on that for the spawn-camped team.Then they'll come back at a slightly different spot, 5 to 10 cheap kills, rinse and repeat.
Way enough to lose.
---
Valid tactic ?
^ seen on a Halo forum
^ seen on a Call of Duty forumIts fun to do but when it gets done to you it is very annoying
---
"It's a valid tactic ! if you're not happy, go play something else !
""L2P NUB
""It can easily be fixed with teamwork
"Got anything else to add ?
Right.
---
Spawn camping, even if the spawn camped can actually run 3 meters before getting shot, is a disaster in terms of gameplay experience.
1) It shifts the focus from capture zones to the spawn zones.
Problems:
a) Maps are NOT made for that at all
=> some spawn are much more vulnerable than others.
=> spawn zone have 2 or 3 exits at maximum, it's greatly reducing the tactical possibilities for both sides : no flanking, no tunnel, no several chokepoints, no original map design, etc. Why making an entire map, if the game is all about the spawn zones ?
b) Red Orchestra 2 is supposed to be about capture zones, it's the game the developers wanted to deliver AND the game most players bought.
=> The legitimacy of spawn-based gameplay is very weak, only a minority of players actually support it.
2) It GREATLY rewards camping over tactical assault.=> some spawn are much more vulnerable than others.
=> spawn zone have 2 or 3 exits at maximum, it's greatly reducing the tactical possibilities for both sides : no flanking, no tunnel, no several chokepoints, no original map design, etc. Why making an entire map, if the game is all about the spawn zones ?
b) Red Orchestra 2 is supposed to be about capture zones, it's the game the developers wanted to deliver AND the game most players bought.
=> The legitimacy of spawn-based gameplay is very weak, only a minority of players actually support it.
A tactical assault requires quick planning, coordination and movements. If the probability of getting shot less than 5 seconds after spawning reach a certain level, no assault is possible.
Instead, if you camp from your spawn and try to snip from some corners, waiting for the unsuspecting enemies getting closer since no one is attacking, you'll be contributing to your team !
=> you're not dying due to an enemy right outside of spawn AND you're lowering the amount of reinforcements for the enemy team.
3) It's negating teamwork
a) No teamwork can prevent getting shot by surprise right outside the spawn.
The only solution would be keeping half of the team camping/sniping from the actual spawn, constantly.
It always proved interesting for the gameplay experience, right ? Having half of your team camping and not playing the objectives, must be extremely funny to experience.
And even then, it's rarely efficient against spawn camping.
Also, once the 5-10 kills are made, you can't get them back : you can pour tons and tons of teamwork over it, it's still 1-2 enemy / 5-10 teamates losses. And it will happen again soon.
b) Spawn camping is only done effectively (and actually) by lone players, sometime 2 players teaming up by accident. If it gets too much players they'll get noticed and BOOM spawn camp attempt failed (and they won't be enough defenders to hold the spawn camped team).
Bonus point :
4) What's the point in having smoke grenades, if Squad Leaders and Commanders have to use 80% of their Smoke to cover the spawn zone only ?!
=> on many maps, the spawn zones requires 3 to 4 smokes to be secured.
With only 1 or 2 smokes remaining, it's becoming much more difficult to attack an enemy position... and camping is the only way to fight spawn camping...
=> So why would you bother attacking ?
---
In RO1, spawn camp was much harder because of the map design, the slow pace of the game, slow movements and map size.
Sadly, RO2 faster pace and maps are very vulnerable to systematic spawn camping.
It seems TWI don't really care about it :
a) Many maps have a direct line of fire between the capture zones and the spawn zone, they didn't even put trees/bushes to block the line of sight, let alone some walls.
=> usually, this is one of the first thing you verify on a multiplayer map before tweaking props/capture zones or optimizing.
Such flaws are usually ironed out during the first Beta versions of the map.
b) No spawn camp protection was put in place (5 seconds protection, wears out when firing, reduced to 2 seconds when moving - been the rule since 1996 games/mods).
It's hilarious to note that a team of amateur made in 2000-2001 a very efficient system to reduce the impact of spawn camping in a free mod (Frontline Force) , and 11 years later paid devs still can't get this right => usually, this is one of the first thing you verify on a multiplayer map before tweaking props/capture zones or optimizing.
Such flaws are usually ironed out during the first Beta versions of the map.
b) No spawn camp protection was put in place (5 seconds protection, wears out when firing, reduced to 2 seconds when moving - been the rule since 1996 games/mods).
---
Funfact :
I read some late 1990s archives talking about Team Fortress (the Quake 1 mod), and found out that spawn campers and glitchers invaded the game too when it became "popular".
So the veterans/true fans created a system where you needed to register an account to connect to the server.
You could no longer ruin the fun and get away with it so easily, and it filtered out the immature who refused to take 2 minutes to create an account.
The system eventually faded away, as most people weren't willing to register on this system so there wasn't enough players/new players to make it viable.
And many veterans, server owners and important members of the Team Fortress (Quake 1 mod) community stopped playing the game, stopped renting servers, because of the destructive behavior of some players and the global passivity of the others.
I feel like quitting too, maybe I've had enough of this and can no longer "hope" things will get better
I think the OP is referring to slimeball tactic of some players to move a Panzer IV up to the Russian spawn near the water refinery, then let the aimbotomatic AI hull machinegunner work its "magic" for them. When you get killed, it registers as an MG34, not a tank kill.
It's actually a PzIV AI hull MG34 that does the spawn killing. Grenades do nothing, the AI hull gunner ignores smoke, and it really DOES do a pretty good job of killing you the INSTANT you spawn. I've been through what the OP is complaining about many times.
I don't know why some people feel a need to talk down to someone who is complaining about cheaters using map weakness and game design exploits to spawn kill and then pontificate on how they would handle it, especially since (even if it WERE an infantry-wielded MG34 in question, which it is not) the counter you are proposing involves actually getting 3 or more players to work as a team to accomplish it. Not everyone is in a clan, and RO2 is very "lone wolf" oriented a'la BF/BC/MW/COD, as opposed to OF. By contrast, the map-exploiting spawn killer in the MkIV can accomplish his little killing spree all by hims widdo self.
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he not talking only tanks but MG too
basicly if the german TL and SL work together they can spawn kill the russians in the russian spawn the whole map
this is not the only map you can do this on if your with a german team that knows what it doing
basicly if the german TL and SL work together they can spawn kill the russians in the russian spawn the whole map
this is not the only map you can do this on if your with a german team that knows what it doing
The tank is a big, big problem, I agree. I made a thread a loooong time ago about how a tank could wipe out Spawn 1 with a single HE shell to the wall, sight unseen. It's spectacularly difficult to take it as an AT rifleman because of the aimbot hull MG, which means your only way of securing the spawn is coming through the water treatment area at its flank, which leaves you vulnerable to all sorts of snipers and MGs.