Kinda Hesitant Now...

[EvilKiwi436]

Im not trolling, it's just that....
I was utterly convinced that RO2 would be awesome before the beta came out, but now that it has im having some doubts on whether to get it or not.
Basically, what I was hoping for in the game was large scale mixed arms maps, set in a variety of locations like small villages in open fields to dense urban combat. i was also hoping that the game was as realistic as RO:OST sounded (I've never played it, sorry ). I was hoping for truly slow paced battles, where every shot counted, and every shot took skill. I didn't want the game to be as realistic as ARMA 2, but more realistic than Battlefield. I wanted it to take teamwork, and for the firefights to feel intense, real, and drawn out.

HOWEVER, it my impression from the many reports I've read are that the maps play more like COD, small and dense with multiple routes in and out of everywhere. It laso seems that the gameplay is more frenetic, with sprinting and snap reflexes taking the forefront over measured, careful strategy. It also seems that the game is riddled with bugs, and it's really unfinished at this point. It seems that the game has leaned more towards Battlefield than staying true to the original Red Orchestra. Now i'm really debating whether to get it or not, or even wait a couple months for post-release support and mods to come by.

What do you guys think, am I needlessly worrying or do I speak the truth?

 

[Derpus]

I think you're worrying. Ro1 didn't have all the great stuff it came to have at release. In a similar vein, HoS won't be perfect at release and there's plenty of content that will be added post release in patches, like APCs, and additional weapon tweaks, etc.

Also, forming a cement opinion off of only a few of the beta maps is really not a good idea either. We haven't even seen the rest of the maps yet. As well, remember that many good maps in Ostfront were community made, which we won't have until the game is out.

 

[Deek]

RO2 is fun as is, but I'd honestly recommend purchase on potential alone. It's not quite there yet (to be honest) but I have high hopes and I'm confident in the future. I say that only because Tripwire has an amazing track record of post-release support.

 

[Manzuk]

I am feeling the same way.


It just feels way too... boring standard FPS type. And then there is the leveling.... like... getting to level 25 is not super easy, and having to do it with every single weapon?

And it's not like CoD in that you can choose what goes on your gun, soon as you unlock it, you have to have it.... bayonets cannot be un-attached, etc etc.

And the gameplay is super dreary, most people stand back and just camp to raise their scores, nobody cares about winning the map so much as their killcounts... and teamplay? haven't seen it... communication is just impossible without being able to tell who is talking...

And really, with the game as it is, there's no point to teamwork, the game is too fast paced to figure out a strategy, it's like playing speedball (a style of paintball).


I'm thinking i'll just head back to RO:Ost and DH, wait till they fix all these problems and gameplay issues. Either the dev team will do it, or we'll see some modders step up and fix the game, taking out the silly add-ons etc. etc.

 

[Dragonzord]

HOWEVER, it my impression from the many reports I've read are that the maps play more like COD, small and dense with multiple routes in and out of everywhere. It laso seems that the gameplay is more frenetic, with sprinting and snap reflexes taking the forefront over measured, careful strategy. It also seems that the game is riddled with bugs, and it's really unfinished at this point. It seems that the game has leaned more towards Battlefield than staying true to the original Red Orchestra. Now i'm really debating whether to get it or not, or even wait a couple months for post-release support and mods to come by.

I've never played the original RO either, but ive played heaps of BF and COD (well... stopped at cod:waw), and this plays nothing like either of them, so i dont see how can you compared the 3.

The only issue i agree with you is that theres alot of bugs, and ALOT of things dont really get explained.

But first you say its like cod, then its like battlefield... and they're completly different games themselves, let alone RO2...

 

[grothesj2]

Only a few maps released so far. Yes, most are close in fighting in the city. It IS Stalingrad after all. Having said that, if you played RO you know that many more maps came out after it was released. Do you think it will be different for RO2? There are plenty of little towns and open spaces around the main urban area of Stalingrad than can be recreated. Heck, one can even make a rivers edge fight.

 

[Josef Nader]

Allow me to quote myself, if I may be so bold:

Heh, we are actually having a very interesting discussion on this in another thread.

Basically, RO2 is a lot more realistic than anything before it. A few gameplay niggles aside (bandaging, I'm looking at you), the gunplay is actually designed to work at real life distances. People are used to their old bad habits they picked up from other games, RO1 included. They're trying to use video game tactics using real world variables, and it's not working. A few things we were discussing involve rifleman taking cover in view of the enemy, and then expecting to be able to pop out and shoot back without getting decapitated. It just doesn't work when the random number god isn't wiggling your gun back and forth or sending your bullets off at weird angles. When you can actually hit targets, suddenly the game changes.

Everyone is complaining about weapons being overpowered (not regarding this thread, but the general feel of a lot of the forum posts) or people running to fast or some such, when in reality the problem lies in their behaviors and tactics. They're trying to do like they did in RO1, where they had to press right up against someone for SMGs to be effective, or they could sit, semi-concealed, and take pot shots at each other all day because of the lack of zoom and the "balances" built into the rifle. These are gone in favor of a much more realistic model, and people are finding that their tactics don't work.

I respect your opinion, naturally, but I'm giddy about the whole thing. In a month or two, the clans will start to get down the tactics they need to survive pat, and we'll start seeing some really heated action on the clan front. In 6 months or so, I can see this trickling down into the general playerbase, and within a year I can imagine some very heated, realistic firefights using authentic infantry tactics on pub servers.

Of course, I may be deluding myself with optimism, but the engine we've been given to play in certainly seems to lend itself to this.

I feel your pain. I'm crashing back into RO from 2-3 years in TF2. You can imagine the culture shock.

But I see something in RO2. Something I haven't seen in a long time.

A game changer. A real, true-to-life game changer for online FPSs. In the same way the first RO revolutionized contemporary FPS titles, RO2 has the same potential. I've never played a game where engaging targets out to 200 yards was standard, where SMGs weren't a pile of *** and recoil, and where there was nothing between me and instant death but my own wits and a bit of luck (that wasn't determined by the RNG).

This game, punshing as it is (my K has got to be like 1:200 at this point), has the potential to be something truly revolutionary. I'm having to re-learn how to play shooters again, dropping all of the bad habits I've had drilled into me since Halo changed shooting mechanics forever. Any game that makes me re-think my play style that hard, the same playstyle that I've been using since the first time I bashed an Elite over the head with an Assault Rifle, has got to be doing something new, different, and (to me, at least) exciting.

I digress.

Don't listen to all the folks raging that their piss-poor ideas of "strategy" and "tactics" don't work in such a realistic gameplay model. Buy RO2 for the potential. Give it a few months to iron out all the bugs and for the players to learn how to play properly and I can almost guarantee it will deliver an experience unlike anything else on the market.

 

[ross]

So from what you've said, am I to gather you are basing your entire opinion of the game on what others have said, without actually playing it yourself?

That is pretty much always a terrible idea. There will be people who love it, people who hate it, and people who exaggerate. The game has urban and combined arms maps, the combat is little different in pacing from the original game, and really the only thing out of all of that which is true is the bugs (well multiple map paths too, but I don't see for a moment how that's a bad thing). Even then, the game is still in a BETA (a lot of people apparently can't tell the difference between a BETA and a DEMO) and while I'm not sure all of the bugs will be stamped out by the planned release date, I expect the worst ones will. Even in its current state the game is great fun and definitely playable.

What really confuses me, though, is how you're so worried about what you've heard when you haven't even played RO - really the new game is just RO with some serious and much-needed improvements, but if you haven't played the original, how would you know whether any of these things are actual changes or not? Combat in RO could get extremely fast and very violent depending on map and players, it's really no different here...

 

[Manzuk]

Allow me to quote myself, if I may be so bold:

Don't listen to all the folks raging that their piss-poor ideas of "strategy" and "tactics" don't work in such a realistic gameplay model. Buy RO2 for the potential. Give it a few months to iron out all the bugs and for the players to learn how to play properly and I can almost guarantee it will deliver an experience unlike anything else on the market.

Still, the game dosen't feel like RO, feels more like modern warfare. Running and gunning all day and padding your stats.

 

[SunKing]

Still feels like a mod, but I have high hopes as always and I'm sticking with em. Gamers turned Devs, can't beat that mix.

 

[JayTac]

Im not trolling, it's just that....
I was utterly convinced that RO2 would be awesome before the beta came out, but now that it has im having some doubts on whether to get it or not.
Basically, what I was hoping for in the game was large scale mixed arms maps, set in a variety of locations like small villages in open fields to dense urban combat. i was also hoping that the game was as realistic as RO:OST sounded (I've never played it, sorry ). I was hoping for truly slow paced battles, where every shot counted, and every shot took skill. I didn't want the game to be as realistic as ARMA 2, but more realistic than Battlefield. I wanted it to take teamwork, and for the firefights to feel intense, real, and drawn out.

HOWEVER, it my impression from the many reports I've read are that the maps play more like COD, small and dense with multiple routes in and out of everywhere. It laso seems that the gameplay is more frenetic, with sprinting and snap reflexes taking the forefront over measured, careful strategy. It also seems that the game is riddled with bugs, and it's really unfinished at this point. It seems that the game has leaned more towards Battlefield than staying true to the original Red Orchestra. Now i'm really debating whether to get it or not, or even wait a couple months for post-release support and mods to come by.

What do you guys think, am I needlessly worrying or do I speak the truth?

Couple points I'd like to make. I personally feel that the maps we've seen thus far, does lend to fast-paced gameplay. But, with that said RO2 still blows Battlefield out of the water. The tactical realism between the two shouldn't even be compared. RO2 is better.

To be fair, all this game really needs are bigger maps to have that sort of methodical pace to it, that most of us want. Hopefully map makers can fulfill that craving for us once the full game is released. But, I wonder whether or not they'll be limited in how big they can make the maps though. I'm pretty sure the Unreal Engine doesn't support large, vast, and wide open maps, like what can be played in ArmA for example. I remember the developers of America's Army stating this about their new engine, and I think the engine they're using is Unreal. If true, that's something to keep in mind.

However, there are a couple maps, so far, that are on the slower and less frantic side. Red October and Fallen Fighters. On Fallen fighters, though the map isn't very big, it's setup whereas it feels like you're really fighting tooth and nail to advance, inch by inch. It has a good, proper, intense feel to it and requires good teamwork to conquer. On a mode where manpower matters, I can see that map being a lot of fun.

Red October is a good sized map and I enjoy the fighting on it as well.

But, yes I'd definitely like to see a map where it's open terrain with valleys, wooded areas, hills, etc.

Either way, without everything implemented it's too early to make that call.

 

[luciferintears]

I'm hoping the modders make it as awesome as RO1, because lets face it, when RO came out it was kinda crappy...

Once the mods and fixes started pouring in, it became amazing. I'm waiting for some hardcore realism mods.

 

[Funkyb]

Red Orchestra 2 is pretty rad.

That being said, I have to be honest that my expectations were rather low from the start. I played Osfront but I got into it a bit too late.. the game was hard to enjoy for me because everyone (it seemed) were pure veterans and I was just a newb trying to learn all the maps and stuff. The engine was dated by that time and the animations were really bad.. the movement animations were just terrible and it killed believability for me. Still, landing those bolt-action rifle kills was satisfying. I also played Osfront with a friend sitting next to me in the same room, so tanking was a blast as well.

I pre-ordered RO2 to support Tripwire and I knew that no matter what I wanted to try the game.. so here I am playing the beta. My initial impression of the game was that it was Osfront with better graphics, but that's not true at all. It's obvious that the devs truly wanted to create an immersive simulation.

If I had to guess I'd say that every one of them loves playing their game.. no one at Tripwire is just a drone programming hard code that they could care less about. I say this because it's pretty obvious how play-tested the entire experience is. The maps are top-notch with no obvious advantages for either side. They took balance into account while still maintaining a realistic experience. At first glance the Axis appear to have an advantage with the base weapons. The mp40 is accurate and has minimal recoil, while the PPSH jams all the time and has intense recoil. The Axis' G41 is much more accurate than the STV (which also seems to jam for me)... BUT the Allies' MG has way more ammo, and the Mosin (seems) to be more accurate than the kar98. That, or it has better penetration, not sure. All in all the two sides feel pretty balanced, and I haven't even gotten to unlocking weapons and upgrades yet.

There are some great gameplay choices that the devs made, such as the delay on death messages. It forces you to make sure you got someone before storming into a room, or making sure a sniper is down before you start clearing other windows.. Headshots and nutshots have their own graphic, as do heart-shots. It's great to lay down fire on an enemy and then 10 seconds later you see that you killed him. A delay that long means that he bled-out.

I have to say that the voices are top-notch as well. It's not often that a game takes character voices into consideration, but Tripwire obviously has done this. I personally think it was a great idea to have your team speak English (with either Russian or German accents), while having the enemy actually speak in Russian or German.

Characters will yell back and forth with taunts and say all kind of phrases that create a believable setting. It's scary when you're in close quarters combat and you hear a German yelling in the next room. Meanwhile your allies are saying things like, "What I would do for just one drink of water." Or a wounded guy next to you says something like, "Agghh it hurts! But I can still kill fascists!" I have to say that the game almost has an anti-war feel to it, often because of what your own character will say when you get killed; when you're bleeding out you can't move and your screen steadily goes black, and your guy will say, "Nooo.. it wasn't supposed to happen this way," or "Not yet.. not yet," or "Nooo it's not fair!" Truly the voices and death animations (there's a neck-shot trigger that has a guy gurgling for what seems forever) make you stop, blink, and think, "Glad I wasn't there." Not only do the voices add to the game's feeling of simulation, but they also provide useful information. Your friends will say, "I got him!" Or "One down!" while you're ducked and reloading.. and then you know it's safe to pop up again. They also yell out warnings, like for grenades. It seems that having the characters' voices be helpful is a no brainer, but somehow I feel that Tripwire nailed it above any other online FPS.

The game isn't without flaws, but I feel that the core experience is "dug in" quite well. It's only a matter of time before the glitches get ironed out and the game is optimized. Everything is very fair.. I never get killed because I couldn't understand how my character looked in the 3rd person or anything annoying like that. Going prone makes sense -- MGs can't set up on stairs with half of their body sticking out horizontally as if he had iron rods for sacrospinalis muscles. Grenade damage doesn't clip through walls or anything equally as frustrating. The smoke effects are some of the best that I've seen, and the lighting effects are killer -- bloom is nice, too.

The game may not be the prettiest or have the best animations (BF3, I'm looking at you...), but it truly delivers in providing one badass WWII simulation. And the maps are just.so.damn.awesome. Screenshots really don't do the environments justice... I thought they looked kind of bland, but once you hop into the game there is plenty to look at! I have to say Barracks is my favorite so far.. the interiors of the buildings are pretty and all the bullet-hole decals are amazing. I just played my first round of Territory RedOctober Factory, though, and WOW, that map is intense! There are so many ruins and random paths to take it's crazy.

All in all I think RO2 is a great game, especially for the price. If you can handle the realism and trudge through the learning curve then you have one sweet game at your disposal. It takes getting used to! You die quickly and easily, and if the server is running true realism with no kill-cam, then you won't even know where it came from. Your first couple of hours are almost guaranteed to be frustrating.. don't play any Countdown to learn the game either, sheesh. But after a while you'll have the "thousand yard stare."

 

[LHeureux]

I think I understand you OP. You thought that Ro2 would be a kind of ArmA with big open maps but set in WW2. It's not. It's more like CoD with realistic features and bigger maps but nothing close to ArmA, I think that you should wait for the WW2 mod for ArmA 2.

 

[Krazyxazn]

Preordered it the minute it became available on Steam, never regretted it.

Grain Elevator is probably the best map ever created on RO.

 

[PanzerJaeger]

I wonder if TW will re-think their open beta decision when all is said and done. It seems like every other thread contains an ever more ridiculous COD reference, and anyone reading these forums would certainly come away with a poor impression of the game.

Case in point: This joker didn't even play RO1, and hasn't played the beta, but is somehow worried RO2 is just a COD knock off. The internet echo chamber is as powerful as it is destructive.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

I don't see any resemblance to Call of Duty-like FPS out there...

I've seen plenty of people trying to sprint across the map mindlessly and they got shot down very fast.

OP your concerns are pretty baseless. There are legitimate issues with this game but being Call of Duty-like is not one of them.

 

[TheRealGunther]

Don't judge R02 on just a few maps thats what I loved about ro1.It had all kinds of maps some was small and chaotic other was large and tactical.Personally I love the 3 new maps but,at times miss fallen fighters and its scale.A full map rotation will fix this not to mention later on tons of custom maps.

My only complaint atm is it seems most servers are stuck on barracks its a fine map but,would like to test the other to as well.

 

[LHeureux]

I wonder if TW will re-think their open beta decision when all is said and done. It seems like every other thread contains an ever more ridiculous COD reference, and anyone reading these forums would certainly come away with a poor impression of the game.

Case in point: This joker didn't even play RO1, and hasn't played played the beta, but is somehow worried RO2 is just a COD knock off. The internet echo chamber is as powerful as it is destructive.

No I think he thought that RO2 would be a kind of ArmA II but just set in WW2. Big open maps where you shoot a village down in the valley from the top of the hill. Like 2 kilometers view distance, etc.

 

[Nenjin]

I was hoping for truly slow paced battles, where every shot counted, and every shot took skill.

I'm not sure I know what "every shot counted" is really supposed to mean. The shooting IS a lot more forgiving than RO 1, but it takes more skill than Bad Company IMO. And I say that having put more than 100 hours in BC2. In RO2 75% of your shots are lethal, and 75% at least of their's are. If someone misses you with their first shot, you can almost guarantee their 2nd will be right on the money. So reflexes are really important, but so is skill. Knowing the maps, as always, is really important too.

As for the pace of battles, it really depends on two things in RO2. What map it is, and where you chose to fight in that map. Plenty of people experience a slow-paced fight sitting in buildings off of objectives, with their rifles. You want slow? Play Fallen Fighters. People advance at the rate of molasses running down the wall on that map.

On the other hand, Barracks, Apartments, there's a lot more close quarters action. It's these two maps that are leading people to say the game or its map are more like CoD or something....because there's dozens of buildings and plenty of blind corners. Some of the fire fights in the building are the best part of the game IMO.

I didn't want the game to be as realistic as ARMA 2, but more realistic than Battlefield.

I think they've accomplished that, I really do. Plenty of stuff needs tuning but in general it feels like it plays more realistically than Battlefield, but is really accessible. (If not always comprehensible.)

I wanted it to take teamwork, and for the firefights to feel intense, real, and drawn out.

You sound like you've already judged the game and you haven't even played it.

Teamwork will get you EVERYWHERE in RO2. Most people aren't communicating though and the squad system/territory game type/countdown game type is a little confusing. There's a lot of info spam on the screen and sometimes it's hard to sort through. Objectives change hands and suddenly where people are spawning and what points are even captureable is different. It can be very confusing and a lot of people are just putting their heads down and sniping from cover, because they don't really know what's going on.

With friends that you can communicate with though, team work isn't hard to pull off, and it's necessary for game modes like Countdown, where "every shot counts."

Having put about 20 hours into the beta, fire fights do feel intense and drawn out, if you manage to survive. Real? I dunno about real, but my heart is racing most of the time I'm alive. I think most of what they've done is working and is good, when people are actually trying to play it as intended. Countdown can be great but half the time the defenders aren't in the point and it's over in a minute, or the attackers never bother to go into the point and it drags on FOR-EVER.

About the only major disappoint I've seen in game are the tanks. Or at least, the pure-tank battles. The one map we've seen that is pure tanks may be realistic but it's boring as hell, and when you're driving a tank without human players you can communicate with, it's tedious to manage everything and you're most likely just going to get 1 shot by a Panzer from 1,000 meters away.