Killing Floor to Xbox360

[Rainydaykid]

I wasn't saying whether shot placement was the biggest or not, it's just my style to say something helps. The amount of help I pretty much never really try to imply because people like to argue what they feel is best, or have learned to be best.


Understandable. I wasn't trying to say caliber is totally meaningless. Any self defense pistol caliber is going to likely require multiple shots to stop an attacker, even when hitting the correct spot. Obviously I am not talking about .50AE or .454 or anything like that.

Basically use the pistol's recoil to do most of the work to get that 'zipper' going, right?

Well, recoil isn't really as huge an issue in typical handgun fighting range(0-5 yards), it can somewhat have an effect, but that is one reason I carry a 9mm, low recoil, high mag capacity. I know guys who can hit targets at 100 yards with a Glock 17, so still "target practice" is a decent thing, but you should mainly practice rapid fire on multiple close range opponents with a handgun.

A still target is an easy target. Or rather, an easier target. At least with my small experience with handgun target practice, well... I need more practice. Then again, if someone says they don't need practice...

I practice a lot, and still feel that it is not enough.

Well the equation looks to be going in the right direction then it seems. I'm just having to work on the part for including the idea of penetration, overpenetration, and the effect that should have on the relative damage it does. And also figuring ideas to get an estimated variance with various barrel lengths, although that one is going to be a bit difficult to get figured out... although generally by just using muzzle velocity as is, it seems to be working just fine.

I can see some license with weapon differences in a game, as far as the barrel length thing goes, there are charts for different calibers in different barrel lengths. Also, with the military and SF teams using more short M4 style weapons over submachine guns now, cartridges are being developed for short barrel weapons. I have seen "M4's" with barrels as short as 7".

Replies in bold.

 

[Lucidius134]

Just sayin, shot placement doesn't matter when you can blow a hole through some one with a 50 cal hand gun.

The force from a 50 cal would be enough to shatter bones and collapse organs, that's why I want a deagle.
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[CandleJack]

Yeah i heard pistols shoot bullets, kewl... now back to topic maybe?

Consoles are bad, mkay?

Just not good enough compared to PC, and the hardware can't run the good stuff.

They also require payments for what PC get for free, and they lack the godly stuff called modding.

Also, loadsacowadootyfankids going "is that a FAMAS?"

EDIT: someone's mad that i told the truth

 

[timur]

Yeah i heard pistols shoot bullets, kewl... now back to topic maybe?

Lubaz, never try to interrupt a gun-guru discussion; they are like the RO forum's rivet counters (but exceedingly less annoying), and so its always better to just sort of steer clear of the "No, no, no, the model of this category of this company's (enter 4 random Capitilized letters and/or numbers), which fires certain X by Y caliber rounds at Z speed, except when Q happens, with an exception of J"

anyways, as I said, its certainly more desirable than what I see in our neighbors in the Orchestral section, so I say let it roll.

 

[OCAdam]

Understandable. I wasn't trying to say caliber is totally meaningless. Any self defense pistol caliber is going to likely require multiple shots to stop an attacker, even when hitting the correct spot. Obviously I am not talking about .50AE or .454 or anything like that.

Well neither am I. I think we're basically on the same page here.

Well, recoil isn't really as huge an issue in typical handgun fighting range(0-5 yards), it can somewhat have an effect, but that is one reason I carry a 9mm, low recoil, high mag capacity. I know guys who can hit targets at 100 yards with a Glock 17, so still "target practice" is a decent thing, but you should mainly practice rapid fire on multiple close range opponents with a handgun.

Next chance I get with a pistol, I'll try that out.

I practice a lot, and still feel that it is not enough.

I wish I could say I practice a lot, but it's a 4 hour drive to the place that my friend and I shoot, so it's been months.

I can see some license with weapon differences in a game, as far as the barrel length thing goes, there are charts for different calibers in different barrel lengths. Also, with the military and SF teams using more short M4 style weapons over submachine guns now, cartridges are being developed for short barrel weapons. I have seen "M4's" with barrels as short as 7".

I actually have a cartridge I've got an a backburner right now (yay college) even though generally I'm still trying to learn a lot about ballistics (and get my facts totally wrong time to time). However, the main cause of weird values in my equation are more likely to happen with the calibers with higher weights or velocities (or guns that fire the same caliber at a much higher velocity even). Just to make an example of the SCAR-H and the M14EBR... (150gr and 7.82mm dia)

SCAR-H @ 714m/s: 268.93
M14EBR @ 975m/s: 684.78

Once I figure a good reliable way to implement penetration and such, these numbers might get a bit better convergence and/or lowered to reasonable values. Most 5.56mm weapons are getting in the 70's range just to give some reference there. And then most pistols are getting anywhere from 20 to 45 (while a Makarov PM is getting... 11). Also, this equation doesn't yet have the idea of HP rounds or anything... although that version might start having to use integration to get better ideas for that.

Replies back in regular text.

 

[VariousNames]

Shot placement is the biggest factor in stopping someone, actually. Caliber does matter somewhat, obviously, but is not as big a factor. The one shot stop thing is a rarity, honestly, at least with handguns. I have studied many shootings, and been in a couple, and the BG generally takes an average of 3 center mass to stop. The only way to ensure a one shot stop is a CNS hit.

Most of the training courses I have studied, as well as modern pistol fighting, is going to "zippers" and burst fire methods on handguns. A "zipper" is firing a string of rounds from the pelvis to the head. Many people are now recognizing it is regularly going to take multiple rounds to stop someone, and the training is starting to reflect this.

And by the way, while the difference between a 9mm JHP and a .45 ACP average diameter may be approx .1", that number represents a 15% increase in channel diameter.

I don't really know how many rounds it takes to incapacitate someone with a handgun on average, but I do know that if it took me 3 rounds to kill someone on average with a handgun, at point blank and with accurate shot placement, with hollow point rounds, I would not be using a handgun. If I had to use a handgun, I'd be considering a .357 mag if that was the case, but I'm usually under the impression that a JHP of any caliber is sufficient to get the job done most of the time.

And on that note I should say that JHP isn't allowed in the military due to Hague so they've always struck me as more or less irrelevant in any conversation that involves military ammunition.

And PS, a 7.62x39 FMJ round, in spite of its traveling at roughly 2400 fps, behaves like a 9mm FMJ in soft tissue. It just goes straight through, overpenetrates, leaving very little tissue damage. It would not be an exaggeration to say an FMJ .45 ACP would outperform an AK-47 in soft tissue. A hollow point rectifies that problem by transferring energy. Alternately, a high velocity 5.56 FMJ fragments in soft tissue and causes large cavitation. Velocity isn't the only component in tissue damage, but it seems like hypervelocity (if you'll excuse the term) does have some interesting effects.

I'm also ultimately troubled by the fact that no automatic pistol cartridge currently in service with any world military is capable of penetrating kevlar. I think that's important...even in a best case scenario, a first world military is going to be equipping most of their dudes with kevlar first and ceramic plates for the important bits, so even striking the joints won't work with anything less than a PDW.

Part of why professional militaries never went back to submachine guns, I imagine..

As for the 5.7, it is about equivalent in "stopping power" to a .22 magnum.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Elite Ammunition S4M Kinetic Energy Performance Summary 16APR11.pdfhttp://www.brassfetcher.com/Elite Ammunition S4M Kinetic Energy Performance Summary 16APR11.pdf

No it ain't

"As tested, both 5.7x28mm cartridges offer lethality that is on par with or slightly greater than a .45 ACP 230gr jacketed hollowpoint."

 

[CandleJack]

ITT: we're done with the RRoD machine, we're onto something else now.

deal with it

This is now the unofficial Killing Floor firearms thread.

 

[Lubaz]

No its not, go away!

 

[VariousNames]

No its not, go away!

It's not like you had anything serious to discuss anyway.

The topic of the RRoD Box has been thoroughly repudiated. :IS2:

 

[Zoridium JackL]

thread hijacked successfully, and on that note, if you were going to hijack a car and you knew you would need to break the window and shoot the guy before he drew his own gun, what gun would you use and in what caliber.

 

[CandleJack]

thread hijacked successfully, and on that note, if you were going to hijack a car and you knew you would need to break the window and shoot the guy before he drew his own gun, what gun would you use and in what caliber.

Mosin-Nagant in 7.62x54mmR.

Accept no substitutes.

 

[Zoridium JackL]

like this?

 

[Austin]

I don't think Killing Floor on the 360 would be that good, the game is made for the PC and every second counts, they would need to change the difficulty a lot. It would also be pretty hard for them to port it and they don't even know if it would be worth it, would it flop or would heaps of people be interested and buy it?

 

[CandleJack]

If glorious Killing Floor was ported, the difficulty would be as follows:

Beginner: pretty much a tutorial for retar... CoD players, and the specs are effectively served to the players on a platter.

Normal: below (PC) Beginner

Hard: between (PC) Beginner and Normal

Suicidal: between (PC) Normal and Hard

Hell on Earth: between (PC) Hard and Suicidal

And of course, they only get the maps that are stock as of now, they get no access to mods or custom maps; no dedicated servers, and they get the 12 year old 1337 h4xx0r community.

 

[DOSH]

I am not by any means an Xbox fanboy, but I must say does your a** ever get jealous of the s*** your mouth spews? If you seriously think that the 360 is such an awful console you must have started gaming just last generation. The Xbox does exactly what its designed to do and does it well. Specifically, it does HD games and movies for casual gamers and a network for them to communicate and play with their friends. The community may be horrid, but that's not MS's fault.

Now, if you're complaining against what the Xbox represents I can understand that. But you have to understand the difference between what a product is and what it has become. For example, OSX is just an operating system, and the Mac is just a computer. It in and of itself is for all intent porpoises in no way pretentious or hipster.

If I'm mistaken, and there is something wrong with the console itself, then please explain it to me because I honestly don't understand it.

You know, it might not be a bad idea to put it on the Xbox 360s, because I have one, it is good, I do know that the PC are better than the Xbox, but PC doesn't have the same games on each faction(Xbox 360 and PC), like Forza Motorsport 3,2, or even 1, even more games though,then the PC, they have Battlefield Play4free, Killing Floor,Steam(Steam games included), and more too. Maybe putting it on the Xbox 360 would be a good idea, and I do know that some of you won't agree, plus, Tripwire have the 2 best games, Red Orchestra 2 and Killing Floor,why not give it a try? The only best game program was only Tripwire, nothing else was the best,Activision, Treyarch,Rockstar Games,or even others, they just s...s...suck,I liked Killing Floor, I played it on my friend's house, it rocks, if Tripwire can make more maps as DLCs or for the updates, I'd be gladby to buy this game for $60, the only thing that was making me tired of on Killing Floor was walking, why walk, running would be awesome on the game too,because my hands was sweating very much and it was boring.

If Tripwire were to make it for the consoles,add more weapons, make a story mode,like a campain,endless survival,and make new zombies too! I love the zombies(not as a gay way), the Patriach was hard on Normal and Hard, so I play it on Normal and sometimes Beginner.Add new bosses, if Tripwire needs help, let some other program helped, I even played Call of Duty Black Ops Zombies, even harder that this, butt let's come back to this.
Zombie games were actually the games I liked to play, like this, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2,and more.
If Tripwire doesn't do this for the Xbox 360, oh well, or maybe it can be for Xbox Arcade in Xbox Live,in case if there was no DLC or if there is no giving things free,I'm okay.



Tripwire, it's your call, okay, now I'm done for this, if any of you guys read this, I'm appreciated .................................................

 

[Dub]

I happen to have a PC, a Xbox 360, and a PS3.
I do and I say DO NOT want a console port EVER.
PLEASE.
Console players always seem to be kids that get a xbox for christmas, log on, And be able to play freely, But PC players are smart and pay for there Pc to be able to run nice games.
Don't tell me this isn't true.
Because it is.

 

[Janek566]

Console port would be nice. Since all the 7th generation consoles have now GPUs 5 generations behind it would be easy to implement such a low detail models and textures. The other thing would be obviously porting the engine itself. I'd still like a linux port first.

 

[CandleJack]

Console port would be nice. Since all the 7th generation consoles have now GPUs 5 generations behind it would be easy to implement such a low detail models and textures. The other thing would be obviously porting the engine itself. I'd still like a linux port first.

What about porting the gameplay?

How can you put anywhere from 20+ keybound commands on a controller without ruining the game? How can you have skill-based hipfiring and decent handling of guns with consoles?

All the console shooters run with auto-aim anyway, and that's a spit in the face of KF and TWI.

 

[Rainydaykid]

I've played extensively on consoles over the years, and frankly, it wouldn't work. Controllers are slow and clunky compared to a mouse and keyboard. I get frustrated when I use one, been playing with roommates the last couple days on resistance 3, and it is harder because the controller sucks. The game itself is like most console shooters, generic as hell with a ton of weapons, most of which are really weak, and linear and fairly boring. It has its moments, but they pale in comparison to PC games.

 

[DOSH]

I know that small kids should beware because this might annoy them, their just stupid,those kinds of kids are crazy, retarded and LITTLE, so if Tripwire released it on the consoles,the parents who have bought the games for their grandson or whatsoever small kids,they would need to go to the forums of Tripwire Interactive, easy, then the parents would need to register and Agree all of the rules,if they'd let their child play, they will have to let the child(ren)off the game,if not, then I would say to pay a $60 fine,no?Then,they will have to go to the court,just get a hidden camera that could never be seen,in fact,I don't even think that our world have hidden cameras,well I donnaknow.And also,they should get a headset,just in case if you hear any childish voices,hope that helps,at the beginning,it would say,you will need XBOX LIVE,or PLAYSTATION NETWORK,to play the game,then it should say,you need a Headset,or Turtle Beach or something in order to play the game,or if you guys don't want to listen to the small a** kids, you can MUTE them. Easy like cake if you don't want to listen to those small babies,I always mute kids when they make stupid noises like noises as they are ra***,so annoying,I decid3d to mute them,very stupid in my opinion for making Killing Floor for th3 consoles, doesn't matter if TWI will make it or not.