Killing Floor BALANCING!

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MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
0
Masada is interchangeable to 7.62... A cod player wouldn't know that. Yes it is technically a machine gun by definition. It's refire rate is higher than a standard rifle. Maybe you didn't know what "Machine gun" means. I don't play cod.
These are just suggestions and a general challenge to Trip to think outside the box.

An English long sword is not a bastard sword by definition. If I meant Bastard Sword, I would have said a bastard sword.

RPG was a plausible replacement for a law specifically for the weight, and yes when you're being chased by crazed specimens, weight is an issue. Oh maybe you didn't know but this is a real LAW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW
And this is what KF might be using right now : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

Can you see the difference?

None of these things are intended to make the game easier. And please... whats a pyro-firebug without molotov cocktails? Never played L4D. Besides I think aesthetically it beats bullets that randomly catch on fire. Real incendiary rounds don't set things on fire like they just got sprayed with napalm and gasoline. . . but maybe you wouldn't know that.

So if you don't like some of these ideas, thats fine. They're just ideas. I wasn't suggesting all of them needed to be added. To see some of it done in game though would be nice. And no, its not as much work as you might think, if you know anything about how Killing floor is set up. The UT engine is very very modable and I'm pretty sure TWI knows what they are doing.
 
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MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
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Claymore mines don't use lasers. Or maybe you wouldn't know that either.

And I want to see someone fire the Bren from the hip and then tell me how accurate it really is. That gun was typically fired on a tripod from a secure location. It is a heavy gun, it usually had a two man operation to go with it. 30 rounds of 30.cal in a clip is all it fires... opposed to an M260/249 that has a hundred rounds+ for an ammo box. It is also an english gun, since this games setting is in the Uk, i thought it fit. Now you tell me how would a Bren be unbalancing to those alternatives for machine guns?

Whats wrong with a hard-core mode? How does that make the game easy? No perk bonuses other than a few strong guns? Specimen damage multiplied of what they do in suicidal? Easy? I'd like to watch you do that.

Whats wrong with having flashlights available on something other than the Beretta M9? Actually having a practical use for it.. what? "No we can't do that. Just turn the gamma up." <--- Fail.

Some of you already know another persons Mk23 mod is being considered to the add list in the game. Some of you have posted in a another thread about a scope for the m14. Don't be hypocritical.

Oh yeah, about female characters... not sure if you guys would know what a normal woman looks like, since some of you only think they look like stalkers. There are women in the military. Don't worry they don't have cooties.

Oh Vaecrius by the way I'm a modeler. I know what verts and poly's are and I know how UT script can be a royal pain some times. However maybe you didn't notice but Tripwire does this stuff for a living. They have all the tools they need. Making new attachments... a lot of work? No, they could easily add a few extra lines to their source scripts for each gun, copy their existing models, toss on the attachment parts, save them as something else, and bam. No new animations needed for the existing stuff. For new guns yes it would be some work making the new ones. Fortunately they've already got an animation database for hand guns, shotguns, smgs, rifles and melee. With a little tweaking for the sequences they'll have unique movements at half the work practically done for themselves already.
And the weapons in this game are the ends because without them you couldn't really win a game now could you?

Some of these other things have been posted before. I know what a search engine is. But the fact that they were scattered all over the place is exactly why I posted in one single thread. Imagine that? Oh and people hate bumping old subjects so I thought maybe a fresh post would be a better idea. So how about instead of everyone tearing down why some of my suggestions just wouldn't work because you have a biased view of what KF is, and not what it could potentially be, (NOT COD/CS/L4D/TF2/R6, or any other shooter game under the fracking sun) post something more positive to the subject, improvements. Discussion. That IS what a forum and thread is for.
 
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Evilsod

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 20, 2009
883
137
0
Ylivieska, Finland
And please... whats a pyro-firebug without molotov cocktails?

Perhaps it would be like the Firebug with Incendiary Grenades...? Just a thought... oh wait of course you said that you were trying to make the game harder with all your suggestions... oh wait how does a long lasting barrier of flame make it harder?

You are incredibly cock sure of yourself aren't you? It seems none of your posts consider any balance in the slightest yet you rage at everyone for disagreeing... but then you wouldn't know about balance either would you.
 

MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
0
Anything on the internet taken out of context could be considered offensive.

Perhaps it would be like the Firebug with Incendiary Grenades...? Just a thought... oh wait of course you said that you were trying to make the game harder with all your suggestions... oh wait how does a long lasting barrier of flame make it harder?

You are incredibly cock sure of yourself aren't you? It seems none of your posts consider any balance in the slightest yet you rage at everyone for disagreeing... but then you wouldn't know about balance either would you.

"Someone posts the one idea that has been discussed every week and tries to back it up by being quite offensive and sarky."

There isn't any rage in my comments. Again take the tone out of context and you can misunderstand anything, which it looks like you are. If I was trying to offend you my post would contain far less intelligent responses, so you could understand of course. (Now I'm being sarcastic. Just to clarify.)

The flame thrower isn't already a lasting wall of fire if you hold the fire button down? Consider balance, okay. A molotov that only burns for 4 or 5 seconds is pretty reasonable isn't it? Sure incendiary grenades, already there, why add some thing else that is similar. Fair enough. (Look a credible response!)

Here I thought this was an ideas and suggestions thread. So far all I can see is trolls lurking about. Do any of you really have something to say other than "I don't like your ideas. Now you're being offensive because I can't read. We don't like sarcasm. No we really don't have any imagination here. Only our own ideas are okay."

No its okay if you don't like these suggestions. But don't expect I wont back them up with good reasoning when they're attacked with less than thought out responses. You would be doing the same, and some of you have.
 
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nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,017
1,281
0
Okay so I'm posting here because I like killing floor. Been playing it for a year now. Lots of fun. All my perks except medic are level 6. I really like the character pack releases and the maps that come out in the updates.

What I hate, is the constant "balancing" that comes out in patches(for any game. Don't fix it if it isn't broken!) Here is my suggestion to end that for killing floor once and for all. Dev's if you read this ever, I encourage, nay challenge you to this. Make your next couple updates turn killing floor into perfection.

Suggestions on how you can do this :

For someone who made a thread about balancing, 99% of your suggestions weren't about balancing. What you did request was a ton of work by a team of modelers, graphic artists, and animators that you expect others to pay for.
 
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MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
0
Others to pay for? I wouldn't be paying for it either? Really? I get this for free? Really? A development team who could release this stuff as a DLC wouldn't get paid? What? Or would release it for free because they are really awesome, and do stuff like that anyways? Really? Wow. I'm so impressed by that.
[insert sarcasm here]

How many people posting here have said anything about how it could be balanced out other than complain that it wouldn't? Or how is any of my suggestions different from anyone elses? If someone requests something, the work has to be done on it regardless, if its accepted. So stop making my suggestions sound like they can just be done willy-frackin-nilly. I'm aware of what it takes to add to a video game. Thank you.

You want balancing? Okay here it is!

1.) Nerf the cross bow so it only does its current damage in a sharp shooters hands. (Every other class one shotting things with the cross bow is silly. ONLY Sharp shooters should have this ability. Since they can do it anyways.)

2.) Giving a medic the gas grenade would counter act them not being as effective with the crossbow. Extra support weapon. Gas cloud only remains for a few seconds, could either stun or disorient FP's/Scrakes. Dangerous to self/team just like a pipebomb is. (Don't gas yourself)

3.) The extra guns really aren't needed and are there simply for some variety. Members on the forum here have made many suggestions to see some of them in the game. No biggy if the dev's don't want them. Extra tier of guns however would be useful for the Hard-core game mode. With no perk bonuses(which give substantial damage bonuses) The stronger guns would be needed for team survival, specimen health would be substantially increased on this mode as well as their damage output.

4.) Spawning at the trader for new players will ensure team efficiency. Sometimes traders are just to far (Farm, Mountain pass) for new players to get to in time. New players wouldn't get the money bonus for the end of round, like players would who are already playing. (Just like it is right now in the game.)

5.) RPG is just a gimmick. As it is the LAW is a strong gun with the recent buff. However the weight is the problem. If the dev's wanted a justifiable reason to lower the weight, a gun change would make perfect sense. RPG does a lot of damage, and wouldn't constitute a nerf on the damage for a weapon change. So everything stays the same, different model, lower weight. Unnecessary if the dev's lower the weight on the law. (Suggestion)

6.) A hypersonic scream making a package of explosive disappear seems a bit odd if nothing else. Would be an efficient and more dangerous application if the scream set the pipe bombs off. Could be dangerous for the Demo/player to set it. Would essentially make sirens more deadly in the presence of pipe bombs, not weaker. However, pipe bombs still retain their use. (Half damage explosion was suggested to be more fair to nearby players, balances out, but not necessary.)

7.) Molotov Cocktails seemed more appropriate for the firebug as a ranged "explosive" Since magically the frag grenades turn into incendiary grenades for a firebug. (A molotov could inspire such voice emotes like "This pints on me", "Drink up lads" Amusing if nothing else?) Flame burst from the molotov could last only a few seconds, keeping the same effect in place now on the firebug grenade.


8.) A downwards stab for the Berserker could improve their over all effectiveness as a front line class. Specifically against crawlers. As it is now they're at a slight disadvantage. (Nothing a crouch couldn't fix, obviously, however possibly still a useful feature. This wont overpower the beserker any more than a class with a gun.)

9.) Attachments. Sharpshooter is the only class that technically has a laser dot. Which is fine. No other class really needs a laser dot. Though for Aiming purposes attachments for other guns could incourage less "spray and pray" and more precise shots, which in turn saves ammo.

10.) Flash lights don't provide any other bonus other than illumination. Most players who can't see in the dark just turn the brightness up anways. If the flashlight were more readily available, then the gamma correction may not be needed as much. Game doesn't look as washed out graphically, and everyone can enjoy a use for the flash light.

11.) Mine/C4 pack remote controlled, Demo class gets better control on when their explosives go off. Still affected by the siren scream (disappears or explodes, either way). Removes the danger of stepping on your own pipe bombs while fleeing. (Seen many games end on wave 10 on that account) Price could be set so it is a Late-wave weapon. Waves 7-11.
 
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nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,017
1,281
0
Others to pay for? I wouldn't be paying for it either? Really? I get this for free? Really?
[insert sarcasm here]

TWI has been very generous in supplying expansions for free. So unless you built the work and gave it to them...


How many people posting here have said anything about how it could be balanced out other than complain that it wouldn't?

whoa.jpg
 

9_6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2009
2,461
727
0
Others to pay for? I wouldn't be paying for it either? Really? I get this for free? Really? A development team who could release this stuff as a DLC wouldn't get paid? What? Or would release it for free because they are really awesome, and do stuff like that anyways? Really? Wow. I'm so impressed by that.
[insert sarcasm here]
Translation plz.
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,275
2,716
0
Others to pay for? I wouldn't be paying for it either? Really? I get this for free? Really? A development team who could release this stuff as a DLC wouldn't get paid? What? Or would release it for free because they are really awesome, and do stuff like that anyways? Really? Wow. I'm so impressed by that.
[insert sarcasm here]

How many people posting here have said anything about how it could be balanced out other than complain that it wouldn't?

You are unbeleivable. But we get people like you here every couple of weeks. They don't stay long. :IS2: Apologies if I come accross as offensive, but then again, so are you.
 
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timur

FNG / Fresh Meat
I would do a full fledged review of your entire suggestion, pointing out the good and bad of each and every suggestion, and make a few jokes, but last time I did that I was told off, so I'll just do a few things.

Molotovs.....don't fiebug nades already do that?

The female characters are a current forum flashpoint (you'd see even more of that had you suggested a perk for pistols). The voice-acting contest is a possibility.....but it has 2 unfortunate flaws:
1)TWI is working on ROHOS, so it's busy right now, leave a message after the beep
2)What is the legal situation of this? I mean, we are dealing with international law, and the whole 'credit' thing, is this legally possible? It probably is, but I want to be sure here.

RPG: why not just reduce LAW weight instead? A whole new model and skin is a bit much for a weight change.

Just a friendly tip: Cool it. Your pissing off a few people, it's time we all took a chill pill here, and calmed down. Of course, that requires both sides to calm down, but really all that needs to happen is for one side to take the first step. We are civilized gentlemen, and this is defcom 2 of a flamewar here.
 

Evilsod

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 20, 2009
883
137
0
Ylivieska, Finland
There isn't any rage in my comments. Again take the tone out of context and you can misunderstand anything, which it looks like you are. If I was trying to offend you my post would contain far less intelligent responses, so you could understand of course. (Now I'm being sarcastic. Just to clarify.)

I'll just go back to my statement of you being cocksure then shall i?

Here I thought this was an ideas and suggestions thread. So far all I can see is trolls lurking about. Do any of you really have something to say other than "I don't like your ideas. Now you're being offensive because I can't read. We don't like sarcasm. No we really don't have any imagination here. Only our own ideas are okay."

No its okay if you don't like these suggestions. But don't expect I wont back them up with good reasoning when they're attacked with less than thought out responses. You would be doing the same, and some of you have.

Perhaps it could be something to do with your attitude problem? You come here and with your first post act like you are the god we've all been praying for to come tell us how KF should be modified. Completely ignorant of the fact that at the same time you posted the community that actually has some valid opinions to offer were discussing a balance update with the specific instructions that they are not intending to add anything like weapons anytime soon and they are CERTAINLY not attempting the insane number of frankly stupid additions you are claiming we all want... An english long sword and a morning star? Seriously? Just because you can read wikipedia doesn't make your suggestions smart.

I could skip right back the major label of 'hypocrite' that hangs over your OP given that you seem to be insisting they aren't to make the game easier, yet it seems a significant amount of them do. Screams make pipebombs go off at reduced damage? "Make life for the Berserker easier"? Your completely dismissive comment about balance "simply make damage/health resistance higher", because its really that simple... And then theres your LAMs which are just laughable. But then you also seem to think Fleshpounds are hard to kill on lower level :p
 

MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
0
No actually I think flesh pounds are a joke, if a cross bow bolt can take their metal filled heads clean off.

None of it is "op" if it is added with moderation. WHere did I say all of these guns should be given UBER damage? "real world counter parts" Doesn't mean anything in a video game other than don't make a high powered rifle a spit wad.

Oh last I checked this is a suggestions thread? So I can make suggestions? No way. Does it mean anyone will like them? No. Were they interesting ideas? Maybe to some people.

I wasn't demanding that Tripwire add all of these things in a night so I could play tomorrow. You're trying to pull my leg making it sound like I did. They have a project schedule, and other projects besides Killing Floor which I'm sure they're more concerned with at the moment. Which is great. I like their games.

Infintile responses set the tone of my responses. I don't get my information from wikipedia, they had the simplest layout to share, and the shortest link.

So lets stop this charade now. Since the topic isn't at all about the topic.
 
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MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
0
For lesser difficulties. That is in pure consideration for people who just bought the game. They don't need to be at all. Hence its a suggestion. I can suggest all I want, doesn't mean it will happen.

I don't expect it to.
 

9_6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2009
2,461
727
0
No actually I think flesh pounds are a joke, if a cross bow bolt can take their metal filled heads clean off.
8.) As far as zombies/specimens go... I think all of them are just fine the way they are. Maybe make fleshpounds on lesser difficulties not as HARD to kill. A few new specimens would be nice...
Will you make your mind up already?

Also take a look at the second paragraph of your wall of text.
Just look at it:
What I hate, is the constant "balancing" that comes out in patches(for any game. Don't fix it if it isn't broken!) Here is my suggestion to end that for killing floor once and for all. Dev's if you read this ever, I encourage, nay challenge you to this. Make your next couple updates turn killing floor into perfection.
Does the way things went from that point on really surprise you that much?
You have lost this thread at the point at which you implied your ideas were "perfection" and that devs only keep balancing their games in baby steps because they don't know how to do it right.

Be a bit more humble man.
And try to avoid posting massive walls of text.

As for your suggestions, before you say anything, I did read them all.
Some of them are just useless gimmicks (hello attachments), others don't really balance anything at all while possibly breaking more than they would fix (C4) while others are just plain nonsense (gas grenades?).
I would go into greater detail but your behavior tells me that a dialogue with you would just be a waste of words.
 
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MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
0
No please do elaborate on why some of this seems like a bad idea. Why I originally posted here in the first place.. had some ideas. So I have contradicted myself a little, expected typing my walls of text. I have no behavior other than what has been put back at me.

If It seemed like I was being "cocksure" or godly some how is entirely laughable.
 
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Zeptorem

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2009
373
106
0
Okay so I'm posting here because I like killing floor. Been playing it for a year now. Lots of fun. All my perks except medic are level 6. I really like the character pack releases and the maps that come out in the updates.

What I hate, is the constant "balancing" that comes out in patches(for any game. Don't fix it if it isn't broken!) Here is my suggestion to end that for killing floor once and for all. Dev's if you read this ever, I encourage, nay challenge you to this. Make your next couple updates turn killing floor into perfection.

Sounds like someone was an only child.

Suggestions on how you can do this :

1.) Make M9 Beretta sellable to the trader. Allow for selection of alternatives as the side arm, but exclude the Hand cannons. For obvious reasons. (See below for alternative weapons.)

OKAY

Pistols: (*=non dual)
MK23
FN Five-Seven*(20 round magazine)
P99
Sig 226

Oh boy, 4 pistols that have been in every goddamn modern FPS ever. Are you even aware of firearms that exist outside of CS:S or MW2? That's a rhetorical question; I'm sure you know of some guns from Vegas 2.

Funny how this doesn't concern balancing at all, a theme running through your post a fair bit. It's basically four handguns that do almost the exact same thing, with minor variations in magazine size, weight, and calibre.

At least the desert eagle, as much as I loathe it, is way on the other side of the pistol spectrum, being far heavier, slower, and more powerful than the 92F.

All these are are just a bunch of similarly-functioning pistols that only serve to clutter up the store and create unnecessary work for the devs. Not to mention the introduction of tons of similar weapons is a nightmare for balance, meaning your first point is actually a detriment to your stated goal of balancing the game. Jesus, did you even read your post before hitting submit?

Make life just a bit easier for the berserker perk, and put a downwards swing/stab for melee weapons on the right mouse click (usually aim). Takes care of the crawler problem any would be berserker might have, over other classes.

Hint: Crawlers are a specific counter to berserkers. No class should be able to kill every specimen with equal ease, and zerkers are no exception. This is a co-operative game, zerkers need to co-operate with other classes to account for their weaknesses (IE, small, fast-moving specimens).

Again, this suggestion is the total opposite of balance.

Sledge Hammer

We already have a slow-moving, high damage melee weapon. If you'd ever played KF you'd know what I'm talking about.

English Long Sword

As much as I hate the katana, and I hate it loads (the TWI dev that put it in will be first against the wall when I'm king), it's in the game already. The longsword wouldn't do anything different.

Morning star / Medieval Mace

Explain how this will fill a role that'll distinguish itself from existing melee weapons. I'd love to hear it.

3.) Remove the LAW as a weapon since no one ever uses it due to weight restrictions. Replace it with a RPG7 launcher.

This whole quoted section is utterly baffling. Why replace a 1-shot rocket launcher with... another 1-shot rocket launcher? Do you have some sort of overwhelming desire to see weapons from Medal of Ghosts: Modern Ops 5?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7 as seen there. Not a hard replacement. Also... it weighs considerably less than that giant tub does, so a lesser weight restriction is plausible. (15lbs vs 22lbs) Also, it can do a lot of damage so a LOW ammo count is justifiable.

The weights of the different weapons are an important part of balance and don't represent real life figures. Remember balance? That thing you talked about at the beginning of your post and then totally forgot about?

Guns should do damage based on their real world counter parts.

No, they shouldn't. The wound characteristics of 7.62x39 are awful and by any reasonable metric the bullpup should outdamage the AK-47 at close range. The HS, pump, and AA-12 would all do the exact same per-shot damage. This isn't balanced.

A cross bow shouldn't ever do more damage than a gun, unless in the hands of the Sharp Shooter perk.

So a crossbow should reflect it's real life power, but in the hands of a sharpshooter it somehow puts out more kinetic energy? Real life or balance: choose one.

As it is now, its the most unbalanced weapon in the game.

Yes, because of the headshot multiplier. There's an easy fix to that:

- Reduce the headshot multiplier.

Weapon attachments. Specifically for certain guns : Flashlight for anything that has a mounting rail.

KF is a horror game. That's the reason flashlights have limited burn time and are only on (relatively) underpowered weapons.

Level 3 SS : LAM for handguns/scope for m14

Jesus no, the M14 is OP as it is. It doesn't need to dominate at ALL ranges.

Level 3 Commando : LAM For the bullpup/Scar.
Level 3 Support, LAM for the AA12.
Level 3 medic : LAM for the Medic gun.
Level 3 Demo : LAM for the RPG.

Great, lasers become ubiquitous. There's a reason there are no crosshairs in this game.

Level 3 Berserker : Glow Stick on melee weapons. (for fun)

Cool balance bro.

I understand that might take some revamping of the weapon system, but I think it would be nice. Wouldn't be unbalancing since every class at level 3 gets it. Flashlights are underused and most players just turn the gamma up. Ruins the mood, flashlight adaptability could bring back the creepy mood the game has.

No, because everyone would have flashlights and lasers and the dark maps would just turn into a giant rave. Do not want.

Attachments could be scripted and done through a spreadsheet format.

You don't really... get game development, do you?

7.) Players joining a new game, instead of being dead, spawn at the next trader, inside, but unable to buy anything until the round is over. Players that die during the round still spawn at the maps start point. (Script to save player status, to avoid exploitation by disconnecting and reconnecting / name changes.) Would make it harder, as new spectators couldn't alarm players to things coming up behind a group.

Only worthwhile suggestion in here, and the only one that actually pertains to balance. Too bad it's been posted many, many times before.

As far as zombies/specimens go... I think all of them are just fine the way they are. Maybe make fleshpounds on lesser difficulties not as HARD to kill. A few new specimens would be nice to see as well but not necessary. Something that flies maybe? good for open maps. UT2k4 engine supports that feature as well.

Jesus, it's like a vague summary of the last two dozen "MORE SPECIMENZ LOL" threads in this forum.

All end Tier weapons should do more damage than their previous tier.

They already do.

HARD-CORE/OUTBREAK Difficulty. Disables Perk bonuses, limits group to picking up ammo boxes over the level, no trader/money. All weapons do 0.35x damage multiplier to make up for the lack of bonuses. Every perk however spawns with their final tier weapons. Specimens do Suicidal DamageX0.20. Final Tier weapons would be subject to perk level. I.E Level 4 wouldn't get level 6 weapon. Point of it is to be Super hard/realistic/impossible.

Nothing to do with balance. Similar ideas have been suggested many times before. 0.35 damage multiplier would mean every game would devolve into endless bullet spam instead of careful teamwork.

Three or Four Female models would be nice. I'm sure some people from the community wouldn't mind doing some voice acting for it. Could even have a contest?

Nothing to do with balance. Similar ideas have been suggested many times before.

Sirens, instead of making pipe-bombs/mines disappear, set them off prematurely at half the damage.

Nothing to do with balance. Similar ideas have been suggested many times before.

SPAS 12
BENELLI Auto shotgun (7 round magazine)

Do the exact same thing.

500 Tactical

We already have a pump gun.

Steyr TMP
MP5

How would these differ from the bullpup? Do you realize that most people can buy the bullpup anyway after the first wave?

M1Garand (Step up from lever action, less ammo than the M14, but higher caliber, no attachments.)

Psst, it's the same calibre.

Guns should do damage based on their real world counter parts.

Hunting Rifle (Scoped, Bolt action, Step up from the cross bow, slower than lever action, but same damage range.)

How is that a step up if it's worse than the lever action?

ACR-Masada w/ foregrip. (Step up from Scar, 30 round magazine, little higher damage ratio, but not as much ammo.

It fires the same round as the bullpup.

Guns should do damage based on their real world counter parts.

Take a break from MW2 and do a bit of reading, broski. Also, the ACR is bad. It's a FOTM plastic AR-180 clone.

BREN - Light/heavy Machine gun (Run slow as heck, 30 round mag.

We already have the SCAR. To be totally honest I'd prefer the Bren over the SCAR because the Bren fits the whole British motif and isn't a tacticool vaporware Future Weapon that fanboys drool over (unlike the SCAR and the ACR).

Equivalent to RPG in terms of general damage.

What

Low carry ammo, low accuracy, variable to level of perk)

The Bren is hellfire-accurate and one would be able to carry as much ammo as you can for the SCAR.

Guns should do damage based on their real world counter parts.

Molotov Cocktails (Firebug)

We already have incendiary grenades. Also been suggested dozens and dozens of times.

Poison/Hazardous Gas grenade (Medic, low visibility, dangerous to squad)

Dozens...

Claymore Mine (Demolitions, REMOTE controlled, to offset destructiveness of proximity on pipe bombs, higher tier, a fraction of the damage more than a pipe.)

...of times.

Killing floor is great as it is, I think everyone here can generally agree on that. Though some new variety to the game would be welcome.

Oh, so now it's variety and not balance, right?
 

MysticCleric

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 10, 2010
27
33
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Okay. Fair enough. Make a sticky if people are tired of seeing some of the most common things over and over. "Things not to post...again."

So my thread title and "opener" were poorly worded. I think everyone else kindly established that. Fair assesment though.
 
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CandleJack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2009
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Masada is interchangeable to 7.62... A cod player wouldn't know that. Yes it is technically a machine gun by definition. It's refire rate is higher than a standard rifle. Maybe you didn't know what "Machine gun" means. I don't play cod.
These are just suggestions and a general challenge to Trip to think outside the box.

An English long sword is not a bastard sword by definition. If I meant Bastard Sword, I would have said a bastard sword.

RPG was a plausible replacement for a law specifically for the weight, and yes when you're being chased by crazed specimens, weight is an issue. Oh maybe you didn't know but this is a real LAW [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW[/URL]
And this is what KF might be using right now : [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin[/URL]

Can you see the difference?

None of these things are intended to make the game easier. And please... whats a pyro-firebug without molotov cocktails? Never played L4D. Besides I think aesthetically it beats bullets that randomly catch on fire. Real incendiary rounds don't set things on fire like they just got sprayed with napalm and gasoline. . . but maybe you wouldn't know that.

So if you don't like some of these ideas, thats fine. They're just ideas. I wasn't suggesting all of them needed to be added. To see some of it done in game though would be nice. And no, its not as much work as you might think, if you know anything about how Killing floor is set up. The UT engine is very very modable and I'm pretty sure TWI knows what they are doing.

Machine gun: Higher weight, generally higher RPM, Larger general magazine capacity. The ACR is an assault rifle by my definition, as it weighs less than a LMG, has a lower standard magazine capacity than a LMG, and is used for a different role. An ACR would be used in the same role as an M4 Carbine, not for sustained fire.

And the 7.62mm you're thinking of is the 7.62x39mm M43 round; used by the AK47.

The ACR has an average RoF, about 600-750. The M16 is generally faster than this by quite a lot, the M249 has 750-100rpm. Now, the ACR's highest rate of fire is the M249's lowest. The ACR generally has a 30-round magazine, while the M249 generally has a 100-200 round belt as it's primary ammo source; though it can use regular STANAG mags.

Claymore mines don't use lasers. Or maybe you wouldn't know that either.

And I want to see someone fire the Bren from the hip and then tell me how accurate it really is. That gun was typically fired on a tripod from a secure location. It is a heavy gun, it usually had a two man operation to go with it. 30 rounds of 30.cal in a clip is all it fires... opposed to an M260/249 that has a hundred rounds+ for an ammo box. It is also an english gun, since this games setting is in the Uk, i thought it fit. Now you tell me how would a Bren be unbalancing to those alternatives for machine guns?

Whats wrong with a hard-core mode? How does that make the game easy? No perk bonuses other than a few strong guns? Specimen damage multiplied of what they do in suicidal? Easy? I'd like to watch you do that.

Whats wrong with having flashlights available on something other than the Beretta M9? Actually having a practical use for it.. what? "No we can't do that. Just turn the gamma up." <--- Fail.

Some of you already know another persons Mk23 mod is being considered to the add list in the game. Some of you have posted in a another thread about a scope for the m14. Don't be hypocritical.

Oh yeah, about female characters... not sure if you guys would know what a normal woman looks like, since some of you only think they look like stalkers. There are women in the military. Don't worry they don't have cooties.

Oh Vaecrius by the way I'm a modeler. I know what verts and poly's are and I know how UT script can be a royal pain some times. However maybe you didn't notice but Tripwire does this stuff for a living. They have all the tools they need. Making new attachments... a lot of work? No, they could easily add a few extra lines to their source scripts for each gun, copy their existing models, toss on the attachment parts, save them as something else, and bam. No new animations needed for the existing stuff. For new guns yes it would be some work making the new ones. Fortunately they've already got an animation database for hand guns, shotguns, smgs, rifles and melee. With a little tweaking for the sequences they'll have unique movements at half the work practically done for themselves already.
And the weapons in this game are the ends because without them you couldn't really win a game now could you?

Some of these other things have been posted before. I know what a search engine is. But the fact that they were scattered all over the place is exactly why I posted in one single thread. Imagine that? Oh and people hate bumping old subjects so I thought maybe a fresh post would be a better idea. So how about instead of everyone tearing down why some of my suggestions just wouldn't work because you have a biased view of what KF is, and not what it could potentially be, (NOT COD/CS/L4D/TF2/R6, or any other shooter game under the fracking sun) post something more positive to the subject, improvements. Discussion. That IS what a forum and thread is for.

Yeah, CoD reference; maybe you didn't get that. I'm poking fun at your suggestion that besides being famous in CoD, is overused and pointless.

Maybe you didn't get the memo i'm passing around, clip =/= magazine.

The Beretta 92 has a torch on it because of balance concerns, it also makes the gun useful to non-sharpshooter players and adds to the difficulty -and fun- of KF.

Also, yes there is a modding section. And yes, several good guns and ideas are being developed there. I like the P90, Mk23 and MP5 myself. The scope for the M14 is probably the most needed attachment for any gun.

And by the way mate, try searching more :D
You might find some interesting stuff; stuff you've been missing out on.
 
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Vaecrius

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2010
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Oooo, defensive!!!

All I'm gonna say to all that before this thread gets (possibly rightfully) locked:

Longsword: Sword with 3'ish blade, quillons and a long handle that lets you use one or two hands on it.

Bastard sword: Sword with 3'ish blade, quillons and a long handle that lets you use one or two hands on it.

Actual medieval terms were all over the place... gotta remember how non-standardized stuff - especially expensive stuff with lots of custom variants made to suit the tastes of rich violent assholes who think they're special - was before the Industrial Revolution.


That, and what's with the CoD player hate? :X

EDIT:
Make a sticky if people are tired of seeing some of the most common things over and over. "Things not to post...again."
This is a good idea.

EDIT2: Some other peoplez:
...You call that a practical reason?
Touche.
You don't really... get game development, do you?
This is the core of this entire thread. Also: JESUS FRIAR TUCKING CHRIST A SPREADSHEET ROFL
 
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