Killing Floor 2?

[JCashman]

KF2, if it actually is ever made, would at the minimum be announced in about 2 years.......see TW makes games that people can play for years before they are so tired of it that they need a sequel. Some other companies seem to still have trouble figuring out that concept.

Yet, those "other companies" make a killing, while TWI does not. Their business strategy is flawed. Witness the makers of sequels in very short periods of time, making lots of money. With a fraction of that money, they make another game or sequel. An example of this would be the Left 4 Dead franchise. The sequel was released very quickly, and was still popular. While I play Killing Floor a lot more than I ever played or will play Left for Dead 1 or 2, I would still buy Left for Dead 3, which at this rate will be released before KF2. Who wins here? Not TWI.

Very few companies are able to deliver quality games that make large profits. Blizzard comes to mind. Therefore, most companies simply milk any current franchise that becomes successful.

 

[Reise]

You're right a lot of businesses have forgotten that games are about having fun and pleasing your customers, not raking in the green whenever you get the chance.

Personally I'd rather my company went out of business with its dignity and reputation, than flourish with scorn and ridicule because of its underhanded, backstabbing methods.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

well money vs. reputation.......let's look at TW vs. idk Activision or EA. TW has a great rep from their fanbase and still makes plenty of money. Mainstream companies make tons of money sure, but look at how bad their reputations are getting, on top of the fact the make half-assed games just to make a quick profit.

i'll take the TW business model any day.

 

[omarfw]

The sequel was released very quickly, and was still popular.

Anything that appeals to the mainstream masses and is played by lots of people can be labeled as popular but that doesn't automatically imply that it's good. *cough*cs:s*cough*

I don't see how UE 1-3 can be linked in any way. UE 1 looks nothing like UE 2. UE 3 looks nothing like UE 2.

Even if there is some barebones coding from UE 1 left over, that doesn't mean it's an upgraded version of it. When you've performed that much open heart surgery on an engine, you might as well call it a new engine, not an upgraded one.

Does that mean I can strip down cryengine 3 cept for one page of code of it and then make another engine off of that and it'd still be considered a modified cryengine 3 engine?

I don't care what anyone says, robocop is not an upgraded human, he's a friggin robot. lol

 

[Reise]

I don't care what anyone says, robocop is not an upgraded human, he's a friggin robot. lol

Cyborg!

 

[DocDave]

think of it this way
you're on foundry and you're on the top level of the map
The gorefast is all the way at the bottom ( near the human spawn )
You start shooting at him and he goes all f-ing retarded and its seriously the most annoying thing ever
and its not like its normal movements at all
its like changing strafe directions left to right really fast
and it looks almost as bad as cs1.6 where the animations just "teleport" the players head left to right because the model is being horizontally flipped
every time it happens I hear somebody on ventrilo say "f-ing strafing gorefast!!!"

Gorefast is leet.

 

[jigglywiggly]

I would be happy to see a kf2, I want weapon customization, and all that fun stuff.

And of course, source engine does suck. It's not multirheaded well, and the SRCDS(source dedicated server) is 100% single threaded. They had a beta in 2006 with multicore, except they forgot about it, those jerks, and they were running 64man css servers.

Also for compiling maps you have to wait a long time. Something like cryengine it's all realtime. I think ut3 is like that as well.

 

[Dragzonox]

I would be happy to see a kf2, I want weapon customization, and all that fun stuff.

And all that fun stuff xP
Sure we need all the fun stuff, and if there is one place is should be is in KF2.
I would like more tactical, maybe better ways to barrier one in, turrets?... A police station, with cells, weapons, and such could be cool.. I guess it would have to be a new mode; "defend the fort"

 

[SquidLord]

Yet, those "other companies" make a killing, while TWI does not. Their business strategy is flawed.

I hate to break it to you, but these 2 concepts do not go together. If "those other companies" are making "a killing" with their current sequel plans, and TWI is not making "a killing," then "those other companies" are doing the right thing, able to feed their children and their dogs, and providing games that people apparently want to play. I say that because it's inherently obvious from the statement "making a killing."

I realize that the idea that a company may be in business not to make money but only to come to your door, knock with hat in hand, and say "please sir, would you please take our product and smile upon it and say that it is good?" is extremely popular right now, but that doesn't make it either true or a good way to run a business. Angry Internet Men seem to have convinced themselves that the idea of producing a product on a regular basis to sell in the public marketplace is somehow an insult to them and all that they hold dear. What may appear to want is one thing that they like to come out and presented itself before them like a peacock in heat, and then to forevermore receive free and high-quality updates made by people who do nothing but devote themselves to be Angry Internet Men's desires, prostrating themselves before the AIM, and focusing their every work upon the whim of a tiny minority.

L4D2 is a great game. Period. Despite the fact that there were those who are engaged in the gnashing of teeth and high lamentations, Valve produced an excellent game that maintains the feel of the original while adding on technology and game modes which make L4D2 easily worth the money that people have paid for it. And we know this because they continue to do so.

If the guys at TWI decided that they wanted to produce Killing Floor 2 and release it in 3 months, essentially based on the same technology, giving us another 6 core maps and perhaps another 8 guns on top of the ones that we already have, maybe even another class or two -- essentially equivalent to most of the other sequels that have been released this year, and deliberately made parallel to the Left4Dead2 release content -- there would be absolutely no grounds for complaint or discontent. That would be a fine release. I would certainly be willing to pay as much as I paid for the original game for this theoretical Killing Floor 2. And you should, too.

I work very hard at remembering that the people that produce the things that I like only get paid when they give me things that I like. The more things they produce, the more things that they produce that I'm likely to like. I do not act resentfully when they say "Mr. Williams, we would like to offer you the opportunity to enjoy more of our product in exchange for some of your money." That's what I want. I want more of the things that they make, because they make things that I like. They want more money, so they can pay their bills, feed their children, and keep their snakes in mice. Only when that happens does everybody win. And by when, I mean get what they want.

I find threads like this one particularly, egregiously, stupid. All it really says to both the producers of the games that you supposedly like and to the rest of the community is that you're a cheap bastard, and you can't be bothered to support the community or the producers of the things that you supposedly like, you can be trusted to pay them for their work should they make more of it; you expect small things for free, constantly. You manage to, in effect, make yourself the last people that TWI should ever listen to when deciding about new product release.

I want TWI to make more things that I like. I would love TWI to me Killing Floor 2, because I have faith and trust that they would do a fine job and provide me more of the things I enjoy about Killing Floor 1. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't you?

 

[omarfw]

I hate to break it to you, but these 2 concepts do not go together. If "those other companies" are making "a killing" with their current sequel plans, and TWI is not making "a killing," then "those other companies" are doing the right thing, able to feed their children and their dogs, and providing games that people apparently want to play. I say that because it's inherently obvious from the statement "making a killing."

I realize that the idea that a company may be in business not to make money but only to come to your door, knock with hat in hand, and say "please sir, would you please take our product and smile upon it and say that it is good?" is extremely popular right now, but that doesn't make it either true or a good way to run a business. Angry Internet Men seem to have convinced themselves that the idea of producing a product on a regular basis to sell in the public marketplace is somehow an insult to them and all that they hold dear. What may appear to want is one thing that they like to come out and presented itself before them like a peacock in heat, and then to forevermore receive free and high-quality updates made by people who do nothing but devote themselves to be Angry Internet Men's desires, prostrating themselves before the AIM, and focusing their every work upon the whim of a tiny minority.

L4D2 is a great game. Period. Despite the fact that there were those who are engaged in the gnashing of teeth and high lamentations, Valve produced an excellent game that maintains the feel of the original while adding on technology and game modes which make L4D2 easily worth the money that people have paid for it. And we know this because they continue to do so.

If the guys at TWI decided that they wanted to produce Killing Floor 2 and release it in 3 months, essentially based on the same technology, giving us another 6 core maps and perhaps another 8 guns on top of the ones that we already have, maybe even another class or two -- essentially equivalent to most of the other sequels that have been released this year, and deliberately made parallel to the Left4Dead2 release content -- there would be absolutely no grounds for complaint or discontent. That would be a fine release. I would certainly be willing to pay as much as I paid for the original game for this theoretical Killing Floor 2. And you should, too.

I work very hard at remembering that the people that produce the things that I like only get paid when they give me things that I like. The more things they produce, the more things that they produce that I'm likely to like. I do not act resentfully when they say "Mr. Williams, we would like to offer you the opportunity to enjoy more of our product in exchange for some of your money." That's what I want. I want more of the things that they make, because they make things that I like. They want more money, so they can pay their bills, feed their children, and keep their snakes in mice. Only when that happens does everybody win. And by when, I mean get what they want.

I find threads like this one particularly, egregiously, stupid. All it really says to both the producers of the games that you supposedly like and to the rest of the community is that you're a cheap bastard, and you can't be bothered to support the community or the producers of the things that you supposedly like, you can be trusted to pay them for their work should they make more of it; you expect small things for free, constantly. You manage to, in effect, make yourself the last people that TWI should ever listen to when deciding about new product release.

I want TWI to make more things that I like. I would love TWI to me Killing Floor 2, because I have faith and trust that they would do a fine job and provide me more of the things I enjoy about Killing Floor 1. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't you?

I understand your point. I just don't think that KF should do something just because L4D did it. Just cuz they did it doesn't make it okay. Making another game that is essentially the first just with updates and charging another 50 bucks for it is just wrong. Yes it is a great game, but sequels are supposed to be just that, sequels. not updates, sequels.

UT 2k4 was vastly different then UT 99, UT 3 was vastly different then UT 2k4. That is what a sequel is. Adding new content does not alone make a sequel. There is nothing in L4D2 that they couldn't of added to L4D1.

So if KF2 is made I want it to be vastly different yet have the same core gameplay.

 

[nath2009uk]

UT2k3 / ut2k4 are vastly different from ut99 due to Completely new graphics, weapons, maps, players / bots, vehicles.

Isn't that what l4d2 is compared to l4d?

 

[SquidLord]

I understand your point. I just don't think that KF should do something just because L4D did it. Just cuz they did it doesn't make it okay. Making another game that is essentially the first just with updates and charging another 50 bucks for it is just wrong. Yes it is a great game, but sequels are supposed to be just that, sequels. not updates, sequels.

UT 2k4 was vastly different then UT 99, UT 3 was vastly different then UT 2k4. That is what a sequel is. Adding new content does not alone make a sequel. There is nothing in L4D2 that they couldn't of added to L4D1.

So if KF2 is made I want it to be vastly different yet have the same core gameplay.

No, TWI should do something because it makes millions of dollars. It has nothing to do with what Valve did with Left4Dead, it has to do with what brings TWI as a company money. The only way that a company makes money is by releasing product. Period. If TWI is not releasing content/product, they are not making money. Given the choice, I would much rather have product from TWI than I would not have product from TWI, and TWI not providing me more product.

The company will always make more money from releasing a new product with content that is extension of currently existing content than they will from not releasing new content for pay.

You, yourself, say "Making another game that is essentially the first just with updates and charging another $50 for it is just wrong." Not 7 sentences later you say, "So if KF2 was made I want it to be vastly different yet have the same core gameplay." Taken together with, "Adding new content does not alone make a sequel," I can only come to one inescapable conclusion.

You are an incredible idiot.

I don't mean that as a personal attack, I mean it as a straightforward analysis of what you actually said that you want. In summary, you said, "I want something just like I have only completely different, but not like Left4Dead2 was different; L4D2 only had an upgraded engine, new graphics, more weapons, and more maps." You do recognize how screamingly insane that is, right?

By your measure, games should never have a sequel -- any game close enough in concept to the original would, by your measure, be insufficiently different to be bothered making -- and any supplemental content, i.e. anything and everything, should be free.

There is no way that you can actually believe this and still think that there should be companies that will provide you games to play in the first place. So, either: (a) you don't actually believe this and you're lying, or (b) you actually do believe the mass of contradictions and insipidity that you're spouting. Neither of these two positions are particularly flattering for you.

I'm only putting this out there because, despite the smallness of the Killing Floor community which actually reads the forums (and we all know that the number of players that read online forums is miniscule compared to the total number of players that exist in the game environment), I see this argument come up in multiple communities all the time. It doesn't get any better from repetition. It's dumb. The more frequently and more consistently we can dispel this kind of ridiculous stupidity, the sooner we can actually discuss something that is meaningful and intelligible.

(TL;DR version: Who would you listen to if you ran a company, the guy that says, "I want you to give me stuff for free, and if you offer me more stuff sooner I won't pay for it," or the guy that says, "I can't wait to give you more money for stuff that I like"? It's a no-brainer. Don't be the first guy.)

 

[omarfw]

UT2k3 / ut2k4 are vastly different from ut99 due to Completely new graphics, weapons, maps, players / bots, vehicles.

Isn't that what l4d2 is compared to l4d?

The graphics in L4D2 are exactly the same as the ones in L4D1.

(TL;DR version: Who would you listen to if you ran a company, the guy that says, "I want you to give me stuff for free, and if you offer me more stuff sooner I won't pay for it," or the guy that says, "I can't wait to give you more money for stuff that I like"? It's a no-brainer. Don't be the first guy.)

To avoid this turning into yet another "everything in L4D1 could have been added to L4D2" post, I'll just say this.

UT 2k4 looked and sounded nothing like UT 99. But it still FELT like an Unreal Tournament game. Do you understand what I mean by that?

If KF2 were to be made, it would at the very LEAST have to be made on a newer engine.

If KF2 were made on the UE2.5 again just with better/more polished core gameplay, more weapons, more maps, more everything, that would be stupid because they could easily just add all that to the original KF.

Obviously you wouldn't be able to add the upgrades and features from halo 3 to halo 1 or 2. The games are too different to do that. The games themselves are very different but it's still halo. This wasn't the case for L4D2 and I don't want KF to follow suit.

Like I said before, just because valve did it doesn't mean it's okay. And this is one thing that I would not be okay with even if it made my favorite developer tons of money.

 

[Benjamin]

I don't know what some people here are smoking, but L4D2 is advanced from its predecessor quite a lot. Maps have significantly better design, the new enemies and rebalancing of existing enemies has changed the game a lot, and the addition of a melee system also enhances the gameplay. It may not seem like a lot to people that like to just see loads of new content with absolutely no changes to gameplay, but to us real gamers there is a big difference.

If TWI could make a sequel with the kind of progression in gameplay that L4D2 has over L4D, I'd buy it for sure.

Also, don't go kidding yourself thinking that game devs are working for any other end result other than to make money. Different companies go about this different ways.

 

[Herborist]

Wasn't the point of putting video ads into the game to make money so that they can keep working on KF?

 

[Ralfst3r]

KF2 on UE3, hell yea. Also, weapon customisation would be pretty sweet.

 

[Oldih]

No, TWI should do something because it makes millions of dollars. It has nothing to do with what Valve did with Left4Dead, it has to do with what brings TWI as a company money. The only way that a company makes money is by releasing product. Period.

What's the diffrence between Valve and TWI other than the obvious "they make their own titles" ? Amount of resources avaible at hand. Yes, it's entirely logical that only way to make money is to sell something or make something that sells, and that you must gain some sort of profit in the first place. But how much money and other resources TWI has compared to some other developers? Indie-developers are already in poor position compared to any major company.

Activision, Valve, EA etc could make several games that sells poorly and they still would probably gain some sort of profit, or lose only 'marginally' money from their total 'capacity'. If TWI were to release few poor products, it would simply go down as a developer. You want to make efficient use with your limited resources rather than throw them out from the window while smoking crack.

 

[VladimirVanVodka]

KF2, if it actually is ever made, would at the minimum be announced in about 2 years.......see TW makes games that people can play for years before they are so tired of it that they need a sequel. Some other companies seem to still have trouble figuring out that concept.

i only buy games that are being updated with more content for free. (i'm cheap that way)
i saw that kf had alot of potential and i bought it, and I'm pleased to say that they are still working on it.

 

[Gunthak]

Bioshock is also running on a modified Unreal Engine 2.5.

C'mon guys. BioShock is Unreal Engine 3, period. Wasn't this common knowledge to every gamer on the planet in... mid-2007? Bits and pieces of 2.5 from Irrational's SWAT 4 and Tribes: Vengeance mods, but vastly UE 3.0 in the end.
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/case-studies.php?ref=bioshock
The only 'next-gen' (360/PS3) game that used a pretty generic UE 2.5 was Ubisoft's Splinter Cell: DA, way back in 2006.

And:

UE 1.0 had nothing to do with UE 2.0 and 2.5

Epic megagames made UE 1.0 and atari made UE 2.0 and 2.5

and yes 2.5 is just an updated version of 2.0. hence the ".5". If it was a whole new engine it would be called UE 3.0. sorta like how they made an entirely new engine for unreal and called it UE 3.0

Just... seriously, what? Epic made UE 1.0 and Atari made UE 2.0 and 2.5?
What the hell? Haha, wow. Good job confusing the architects and IP owners of a technology (Epic Games: Unreal Engine 1~3) with the previous publisher of a few Unreal games (Atari: Unreal Tournament 2003-2004).
Hot damn, there's an incredible amount of misinformation here.

As for the people pipe-dreaming that Tripwire will wait another two years to announce KF 2: no way. It's Unreal Engine 3. UE 3 is peaking right now, just as UE 2.5 was peaking back when TWI scored the license via the competition win with Red Orchestra. Killing Floor has already been out for 8 months. In today's development climate (and with TWI's increased studio resources), KF will be due for an UE3-based sequel in Fall 2010. The team is now eminently familiar with UE3, after close to 2 years pounding away on HoS, and UE3 opens the door to easy 360/PS3 versions during the twilight of this console generation--which Tripwire would be wise to exploit in a sequel.

 

[Herborist]

The only way that a company makes money is by releasing product. Period. If TWI is not releasing content/product, they are not making money.

I'm pretty sure they're making money from selling ads within their games - surely you've seen the commercial for District 9 on Blu-Ray by now? Not to mention the two skin packs they released for $2 each.