• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Killing Floor 2 Summer Opt-In Beta 1 (PC Build 1114) Is Now Available!

@MBOmnis :What's the issue about giving an LMG to the SWAT? It has never been said that the Commando was the "LMG class". In fact, considering the quick rate-of-fire and extra large mags of the SWAT... It feels like a better fit for him than the ol'commando. Do remember than a LMG is usually meant to be a supportive weapon IRL. And considering the SWAT's tankiness too, it DEFINITELY fits.
It triples down on things that the SWAT is already too good at: defense, mag size and rate of fire. It's going to be the meta weapon for it.

In my opinion it'd make more sense to keep it for the Commando (or even give it to the Support - it is a "support"-style weapon after all and the "Support" perk is supposed to be the one to use "support" weapons, rather than SWAT) to give them a bit more survivability (at the cost of some offensive effectiveness), rather than give it to a perk that is already very good at surviving and won't perform any less with it, damage-wise.
Unfortunately, the Support is already getting a new free weapon so it wouldn't make sense to give them another one in the same update.

My questioning a LMG being given to the SWAT is the same questioning you made to Humam2104 about them giving an AR/Shotgun hybrid to the SWAT. It doesn't fit the perk, simple as that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: vegaboy3
Upvote 0
There's going to be a flood of messages similar to the above from berserker mains (i.e. people who play this game with primarily only 1 perk and don't care about the game balance if it doesn't affect their play style directly).

I hope that TWI is prepared for this and already conditioned to ignore these complaints. These complaints are natural to any nerf event as people, especially those who play 1 perk primarily, are naturally inclined to be satisfied with the superiority that comes from playing an OP perk and, in general, they don't care about the overall game balance.

I would like to again commend TWI for doing the right thing here and ask to ignore the zerk main complaints. These people don't speak from the standpoint of game balance most of the time, they speak from the position of the threat to lose their superiority a significant part of which comes from the zerk perk being overpowered from the survivability standpoint, as compared to other perks.

Moreover, such players oftentimes know how OP these perks are, just won't admit this in their feedback. To reinforce what I've just said, here's a screenshot of an in-game chat showing a very typical scenario in which the players are of skill that by itself isn't enough to play on the difficulty they chose to play so they compensate it by playing OP perks.

 
Upvote 0
HRG Blast Brawlers
Decently punchy (no pun intended), and pretty good statswise. but I'm surprised that they are hitscan. Was totally expecting something more visibly projectile-based. The animation for attacking is nice and expected, but why didn't you use the awesome looking blood-cleanse animation for its reload?! The current animation for reloading almost looks like you're just attacking again. Hitscan + Unclear reload animation = Slightly disappointed.

HRG Bastion
Stats-wise, sure, it's decent.
But visually, oh dear, where to start. Back when I suggested this weapon, where it had a shorter barrel, pistolmunitions and a boxmagazine (rather than rifle rounds and the box+belt), those changes weren't just "because it'd look cool". It was to make it fit the SWAT visually better, and to justify a quicker reload, and to justify giving it SMG damagetype, and to justify a quicker reload. But sadly, all that was totally ignored.
Furthermore, that energyshield is incredibly tiny, and why is it so square? I was expecting something far bigger and rounder!

Oh well, at least it's a decent gun performance-wise.

Berserker
Overall, I feel the nerfs kinda missed the mark a bit. Some minor survivability nerfs were in order, but not this much. If anything else, the tankiness should've shifted over more to blocking, but mostly parrying - it's the passive tankiness the perk had which can feel a little bit too "noobfriendly".

However, I feel the huge movespeed from Skirmisher is what makes the Berserker a "nooby soloist", while the tankiness is more what makes the perk useful for the team. The Berserker is now also more or less about as tanky as the Survivalist, which sounds like something is a bit off imo.

Also, I'm really surprised that the Parry-skill (can you just rename it to something else already btw? Like "Retaliation"? So it's less confusable with the actual mechanic of parrying?) was reduced in its timer so much, it feels aweful to use now (especially when it's often mainly used for the offensive boost, which makes it a really odd skill in the first place, imo). At least make it give some of its time back when you kill during the buff.

Also, Berserker still has unnecessarily huge melee damage bonuses: Compared to base melee weapons, a Smash-Berserker deals 3,075x more damage per hit on headshots - if you account attackspeed as well, you deal 3,69x the DPS of a base melee weapon. How is that EVER gonna let melee weapons work crossperk-wise? Melee weapons need to have most of their power baked into the very weapons instead, and Massacre+Smash changed up so they don't pidgeonhole us to use solely Light or Heavy attacks respectively (make them about headshot+stumble versus attackspeed instead, so it's about playstyle, rather than about what button to use).

TL;DR:
  • Slightly bring back a bit of the Berserker's tankiness, mostly baked into the parrying system (maybe some passive bonus?)
  • Lower the Berserker's movement speed on Skirmisher.
  • Bring back a better timer on Parry, and make kills during its timer give it back some of its duration.
  • Move over a lot of the melee power into the weapons themselves, rather than giving it so much from the skills, so melee crossperking can actually become a genuine thing.
Medic
Nerfing the armor was definitely right. Medic was too tanky, considering its role. I also think that the Resilience talent should be removed. In fact, i'd make the first tier be a "magsize vs reload" kind of talent tier, and bake a weaker version of Symbiotic Healing into its passives instead - to promote that you heal teammates as a first priority.

Demolitionist
I dunno if buffing Extra Rounds did anything all that useful (not to mention, its flat bnous still exacerbates what weapons it was already useful for). I feel the Demolitionist needs a more interesting skilltree (same goes for Sharpshooter), so not every tier is basicly just a choice of: "Damage, or Utility?". Damage almost always wins, so there's not really a lot of choice here for the higher difficulties of play.

Support
*sigh*
This is not what was needed for High Capacity Magazines. Look at this very simple description:

HCM = Benefits certain support weapons with 50% magsize bonus. Some are ineligible, due to the weapon's construction.
Tactical Reload = Benefits ALL support weapons with ~50% faster reloadspeed.

See the issue? HCM doesn't benefit all weapons - but that can be fixed: All weapons that can't get a magsize boost from HCM would simply get the reload speed bonus instead. This make the two choices on this tier fully fair.

And that kind of change needs to be done for ALL perks with similar mag-vs-reload choices


More thorough details on my opinions and suggestions here:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
It triples down on things that the SWAT is already too good at: defense, mag size and rate of fire. It's going to be the meta weapon for it.

In my opinion it'd make more sense to keep it for the Commando (or even give it to the Support - it is a "support"-style weapon after all and the "Support" perk is supposed to be the one to use "support" weapons, rather than SWAT) to give them a bit more survivability (at the cost of some offensive effectiveness), rather than give it to a perk that is already very good at surviving and won't perform any less with it, damage-wise.
Unfortunately, the Support is already getting a new free weapon so it wouldn't make sense to give them another one in the same update.

My questioning a LMG being given to the SWAT is the same questioning you made to Humam2104 about them giving an AR/Shotgun hybrid to the SWAT. It doesn't fit the perk, simple as that.
The HRG Bastion is the only alternative to the Riot shield which is paid, not to mention the HRG Bastion performs better while being put at 2000 which seems fair for what it does, I'd also like to remind you that HRG weaponry isn't meant to fit the perk hence Support shooting pellets out of Static Striker fists.
SWAT is one of the less tanky perks that loses his survivability almost instantly once the Kevlar comes off, giving him an option that lets him actively negate incoming damage is not only good gameplay-wise but also boosts his overall functionality around his teammates since he can just eat a Fleshpound hit with the shield enabled while preserving his Kevlar.
I am also against giving Commando even more weapons, there is something like too much and Commando has already passed it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aze
Upvote 0
I make a picture about the Resistance on every perks and the berserker before and after beta, i take the crawler because his damage don't increase when you play alone or with player, and also no need to show you the Skill "Resistance" because he got 25% with the nerf and 35% without the nerf , both are on the picture ).
No Parry Bonus : the player don't use parry to get his 25% bonus ( with nerf ) and 40% bonus ( without nerf )
Killing Floor 2 Damage take.png
about the picture the true number about the berserker is 55/68 for nerf and 60/78 damage ( because i play Skirmisher and got 1/2 health regen when i the crawler hit me )
Now keep in mind this Berserker with melee weapon deal with 4crawler 1bloat 1siren 3 gorefiend and a husk ( i speak for a team work berserker so he gonna stay and fight zed to keep them away from his team, not the berserker who gonna run for 1hour ) not even a Field Medic can keep him alive if the Berserker stay front of zed, the heal is not enought fast so the new berserker should play with long range weapon or he die like every other perks once in melee, if the nerf stay people can say goodbye to melee berserker in hell on earth.
I show you this because he got a big nerf on his main job : keep zeds aways from his team... if the shrapshooter got a nerf where his damage get reduce, then the shrap will be useless and i will be here to say the same thing for him. Also if you think Berserker is the best perks then you've never meet a good firebug, he eat every little zed and can have 1000kill at 6 player in 10wave with all team alive, add a good shrapshooter with him and you never gonna see a zed of the game so if they both play as team, the other 4 player don't have to play.

Everyone think Berserker and Medic is overpowered perks but no it just the easyest perks of the game because you don't need any skill to hit a body or heal a guy front of you.
 
Upvote 0
Every Berserker who dares to solo in Hoe and kill nearly 50% of Zeds and 40 or more Large Zeds alone must have at least 1000 hours of Berserker play time. I've only seen two guys in my over 2000 hours' gameplay who have done this. Don't you see a million Berserkers solo in Hoe and keep dying, and then exits the game? It's too difficult for zerker's solo outside with too many powerful zeds, such as husks, edars and fleshpounds.
Those so-called Solo Berserkers can not called Solo at all.How can those guys without abilities to handle all the zeds outside at all, or accumulating a bunch of SC and FP in the face of teammates, be called as Solo Berserkers? They just survive outside with their powerful, stupid weapons such as Hemoclobber and Lightsaber. It is these weapons that should be nerved.
With the Berserker Eviscerator nerved in 2018, it's almost impossible to be a normal solo player in regular defense with other players together. Both the efficiency on killing little zeds and dealing with large zeds are now at the bottom of the game for this perk. If you force a Berserker stay in the team will only Interfere other people, or cause the defense to collapse, unless your teammate is a demo. Berserkers are forced to go solo.
 
Upvote 0
As a KF2 player with 2200 hours, my berserker play time is not very long and is not as good as the powerful bullet classes like gunners, sharpshooters, support, etc.But my friends and I have never felt that the Berserker was too powerful. I'll explain it below.
First of all, Berserker is the only Perk in the game who has to deal close combat with his enemies almost the entire time, which makes him have to take more damage than any other Perk.Berserkers are also the only Perk to fight Zed on their own without losing health, which requires the perk to be able to regenerate itself continuously.
Now, with Firebug, SWAT, Survivalist and other Perk enhancements, all classes except Berserkers have the ability to defend an area on their own. Berserkers, due to their low DPS, are prone to being breached by monsters when defending areas independently. The Berserker's ability to cover an area is probably the last in the entire game, whether it's the ability to quickly kill groups of Little Zeds , or the ability to quickly kill large Zeds.
To compensate for the lack of output, Berserkers have unique survivability.This is where he draws players to play. While some players are poor and solo ruining the experience of other players, this is not because of berserkers' skills, but because of powerful weapons, such as Hemoclobber and ion-thruster. These weapons allow an unskilled Berserker to run around the map and stay alive, but they don't help them kill Large Zeds, which in turn causes those dangerous zeds to become enraged and kill their teammates, destroying their experience in the game.
Berserker skills have not been changed in 4 years, I don't think it is wise to nerf a class at this time.How about adding new enemies to the game to curb Berserker strengths and make the game more challenging and fun?
 
Upvote 0
1. When does beta 2 open?
2.Is the animation of FAMAS Masterkey not completely finished?
3.Will FAMAS masterkey have new sound effects?
4.Are weapons animators / designers different from those before last spring?
5.Will you continue to work with Saber in 2022?
6.How do you think the details and animation of the new weapon compare with those of the past?(2015-2019)
7.Berserker's weakness is too severe. Will Beta2 consider strengthening it?

I'm sorry to disturb you again, but I'm looking forward to these replies. Thank you.
@Yoshiro
 
Upvote 0
I haven't tried the changes yet but on paper:
  • Zerk nerfs are excellent.
  • Medic nerf is marginal, but good.
I'm a zerk player, probably with 2x more hours than most people complaining here, and I think zerk will still be one of the best perks in the game after the nerf (1st: medic - 2nd: GS - 3rd: zerk) .

Mixed first impression on Symbiotic change, it might end up being a buff, since it allows you to stack more bonuses. But I'm happy to see changes to medic.
Resilience should also be nerfed, probably back to 50%. It is an absurd perk, only helping bad medics solo the wave after they let their team die.


Additional suggestions:
  • Hemoclobber also needs a nerf. But I don't think the self-heal should be nerfed, because it is the only way for certain classes to survive without medic. I'd suggest to reduce the magazine capacity from 3 to 2, reduce total ammo from 15 to 6, and remove the flinching effect on scrakes/fleshpounds, That way it mostly affects zerk using it as a solo weapon. Survivalist might unfortunately be affected by this nerf but a change to hemo is needed.
  • Add some survivability bonuses to other classes. For example, knife of every class should have a parry bonus of +50%. Syringe should heal +40hp when you're the last alive.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
1. When does beta 2 open?
2.Is the animation of FAMAS Masterkey not completely finished?
3.Will FAMAS masterkey have new sound effects?
4.Are weapons animators / designers different from those before last spring?
5.Will you continue to work with Saber in 2022?
6.How do you think the details and animation of the new weapon compare with those of the past?(2015-2019)
7.Berserker's weakness is too severe. Will Beta2 consider strengthening it?

I'm sorry to disturb you again, but I'm looking forward to these replies. Thank you.
@Yoshiro
1) We don't have a date to share on that yet
2) They are considered finished and final outside of any tuning or bugs fixes that may need to be done to them. I am not currently aware of any work planned for them
3) Not to my knowledge, the audio is considered final
4) As I do not recall exactly when our partners at Saber took the lead on content development for KF 2 (and it isn't a firm exact date, it was a gradual shift away from the internal Tripwire team to Saber)
5) I can't speak to the future like that but they have been our partners on KF 2 and other projects and we may work with them again
6) Our friends at Saber have had different experiences in game development which have led to different strengths and weaknesses from our own teams. We provide them with feedback and also pass along player feedback so they can learn and improve just as we would do with a fully internal project.
7) We are looking at stats and player feedback on this, but so far I feel that the changes have landed well within the target zone and may only need some small tweaks from here.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hec0v0ules
Upvote 0
I actually wonder if the Survivalist would use the HRG SWAT weapons more effectively tbh. Granted, RPG/Buckshots/Hemoclobber/HM101 is the best way to play that perk, though I think the HRG Nailgun pairs better with the Centerfire with any of the SWAT perk weapons due to the Piercing melee damage type being good against trash zeds, EDARs, scrakes and fleshpounds while Gunslinger Weapons could fulfill the of being a dedicated medium zed killer
RPG and buckshots are pretty bad on survivalist, i have no idea why you picked these guns in particular. HRG Bastion will be a pretty good pick though, thanks to assault rifle damage type it hits the 50 damage breakpoint (which when it comes to rapid fire guns was limited to commando rifles which have to be on single fire to be manageable and swats UMP which has terrible ammo pool) to decap gorefast and the shield is a nice utility.
 
Upvote 0
So after actually finding a server with people on it, I can safely say that Survivalist is currently a better Berserker than Berserker.

Even if you ignore that the time it takes for a Zerker to get into his most optimal range can also be the time spent for every other perk to shoot a zed group dead, the nerfs to Vampire and Parry are severe enough where even if you time your parries correctly, you'll still get chewed up by mobs like you're made of paper. Meanwhile, Survivalist has SWAT's Heavy Armor Training as a passive, Medic Grenades for ≤15 block loadouts, 15% extra damage for ranged weapons and faster reload speeds based on his Level 5 skill choice, 90% extra damage for melee weapons via Melee Expert and the same level of damage resistance that a Zerk with the Resistance skill would have... as a passive. Yes, i know that a Berserker with Parry active has a higher damage resistance than the Survivalist, though the Survivalist more than makes up for it by having a gun to soften his targets before engaging in melee

Also, I don't think crawlers should spawn at all during Arachnophobia due to their massively increased health pools. Sure, you can get away with stomping them during the regular waves though when you're trying to dodge the Patriarch's miniguns and rockets, you probably don't want to be distracted by nigh-invulnerable bugs.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
A minor suggestion for the FAMAS to improve its usability on Support (like, so minor it doesn't need its own thread)

How about giving the assault rifle component a penetration stat of 1? Doing this would mean that it would have no penetration as an off-perk weapon but on Supports that are Level 5 and above, the rifle component would actually be able to shoot through zeds. I think something similar can also be applied on the Blast Brawlers.

Iunno but I've always felt as if perk weapon penetration is the support's main utility for trash clearing
 
Upvote 0
So after actually finding a server with people on it, I can safely say that Survivalist is currently a better Berserker than Berserker.
No need to keep talking about that berserker nerf:

There are 10 perks, so we can say that all players are divided into 10%. (10% master berserker player, 10% master medic player, 10% master firebug, all perks have 10% up to a total of 100%)

And all this 90% other main perks gonna say: "this nerf is worth it" or "please nerf him more" because they never play berserker or they don't try the nerf.

Those 90% player no berserker player don't want to see any berserker on the game, there is even server who kick out berserker / medic / survivalist / firebug if the player don't take another perks.

Even if all Berserker main come and say the nerf is a bit too much *, there is still 90% player who gonna keep saying the nerf worth it because they don't want to see berserker in the game anymore, it's a lost battle for Berserker . (funny because this is the only fight they can't win xD)

I know what i say, i was in a french team on discord 3 / 2years ago, almost 400 player in a week and on this 400 player only me and 2 other guy was mastery all perks but we mostly play berserker ( because is fun to take off head with our favorite melee weapon ), all that player we got in our team say to us "the berserker is too strong it should be nerf" until they see us play swat / firebug or every perks we play and next say the same thing for the perks we have, most of them wasn't able to stay alive alone or even in teamwork when we defend them.

As you say "you'll still get chewed up by mobs like you're made of paper" and that gonna push berserker main to play only VLAD-1000 / Hemoclobber / HRG Teslauncher / Evicerator, Frost Fang if the player buy it. All 10 melee weapon will never used in sucidal and hell on earth, that making the berserker like every other perks: without a good team dps he gonna need to run like a headless chiken with his team, if player complain about the berserker run 3/4 of the game when he was last one alone, they gonna see a berserker gonna run every time looking for ammo / health (and 1health by 1, the game won't end until 1hour + if the berserker is not kick).

And if you don't belive that, look up at the picture i made a post above, when a berserker let 1 crawler hit him (it happen a lot when you play a 6player game even when the berserker paly with team), if he got parry resistance the crawler deal 32 damage, but the melee Berserker never deal with only 1crawler he don't parry, he deal with 2bloat 5gorefiend 1sirens 6clot 4crawler and all this zeds don't hit at the same time or can be parry, the berserker will take damage even with parry, if a good player are able to kill this 18 zeds with dodge / parry and cancel hit, he end this fight with 30 / 40health when he play with 6player (i've try it so a new berserker in hell on earth will die at every wave) but Zeds come everytime so once he kill those zed, other wave come on him right after, if there is a big zeds the berserker gonna need run, so he won't be able to defend his team or he'll die beacause the berserker is not longer able to handle any zeds composition.

* Bit to much: Vampire / Skirmisher are good nerf, Dreadnaught should be reduce too if they give him back his 55% resistance with parry, but reduce his resistance make him useless on melee so all his main weapon are gone.

That over, no need to talk about that nerf again, It's a lost battle, we can all say goodbye at melee Berserker.
 
Upvote 0
There are 10 perks, so we can say that all players are divided into 10%

No, most people don't play just 1 perk only. I play 4-5 regularly, and that's how I can tell zerk is busted. If your argument was true we would see nerf complaints to every class all the time so why are we seeing it mostly for zerk and medic?

And all this 90% other main perks gonna say: "this nerf is worth it" or "please nerf him more" because they never play berserker or they don't try the nerf.
No I too would be pissed if they overnerfed zerk but that's far from being the case. I would maybe make an argument that parry duration has been nerfed too much but I still prefer the new zerk by far. At least now people have to actually know what they're doing and not be carried by the resistance bonus.
 
Upvote 0
I don't normally post things here, mostly because I have no desire to get wrapped up in an argument with people. But in the spirit of providing feedback--WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF THESE EVENT PREVIEWS--I think it is important in this case. This is my opinion, which is no less valid than anyone else's. I am not posting this to incur anyone's ire, but to give additional feedback to Tripwire during this preview. I have over 4k hours in KF2, and have been playing since the initial preview release. I play all the perks, but probably Survivalist and Demolitionist the least.

There is one argument against the current Berserker nerf that is very persuasive for me: The Survivalist is now a better Berserker than the Berserker is. The Survivalist? Seriously? With that being the case, there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG here. The Berserker's primary role has always been to go toe-to-toe with the zeds using melee weapons. That is now not viable on HoE. Were they OP before? Perhaps, but this nerf goes too far. Forcing the Berserkers to play using ranged weapons almost exclusively to stay out of harm's way does not fit the role they are supposed to fill. There has to be a better way to do this.

The Medic. The armor nerf is appropriate. I've never really understood why it was set so high in the first place. Nerfing the Symbiotic Health skill? It is a noticeable decrease, but also still within reason.

Extra ammo/magazine capacity for Demolitionists and Supports? I do not feel that this was needed.

I have seen pleas by others here for Tripwire to ignore people providing negative feedback on the recent changes. This is absurd. Tripwire has always presented itself as being heavily reliant on feedback from the players. That means ALL the players, even the ones who disagree with you. Everyone has an opinion, based on how they approach the game, what perks fit their play styles, etc. Suppressing them is not going to provide Tripwire with an accurate sense of how the changes are being received by the larger player base. Please, let's hear what everyone has to say.

So, that's my peace. I hope that Tripwire monitors these forums, as well as others, and gives fair hearing to opinions across the entire player base--mine and yours.

Thank you.
 
Upvote 0