Killing Floor 2 - Potential Weapons For The Future (Your Input Requested)!

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What are your top 3 choices for new KF 2 weapons in the future

  • Scopped bolt action rifle (k98?) - Sharpshooter Lower in tier to give that option earlier on in game

    Votes: 70 25.2%
  • Incendiary Launcher (M202 Flash?) - Firebug/Demo - Bringing new gameplay oporunities to the firebug

    Votes: 93 33.5%
  • HRG HM Tech SMG (Vector) - Medic - Alternative medic SMG with different fire rate/pattern

    Votes: 63 22.7%
  • Slow Firing LMG (BREN) - Commando - Providing a more heavy hitter/stagger LMG

    Votes: 109 39.2%
  • Pistol (MK 23) - Sharp - Sharp backup sidearm for railgun loadout with a lower weight

    Votes: 117 42.1%
  • AP SMG (SR3-MP) - Swat - Giving SWAT something with AP rounds to help shred armor

    Votes: 126 45.3%
  • Mine/Deployable - Demo - Giving players a way to directly or indirectly control a choke beyond C4

    Votes: 30 10.8%
  • throwable for FB (WP Grenade) - Firebug - Giving Firebug a dedicated choke point weapon

    Votes: 16 5.8%
  • HRG Sonic Discombobulator - Disables Zed Specials/projectile and slows with small to moderate damage

    Votes: 9 3.2%
  • HRG Rioter Tool - Medic - A tool to buff singular or multiple teammates in an area

    Votes: 20 7.2%

  • Total voters
    278

Yoshiro

Senior Community Manager
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
13,329
4,054
113
@Man Bites Dog While your enthusiasm for suggestions is good, try adding why each weapon would be a good for each perk and what role it will fill beyond "because it is cool".
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,853
304
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SR3-MP: I both love how the gun looks (looks very much like the AS VAL) and SWAT is in DESPERATE need for some new toys (SWAT only has 9 guns, the lowest of all classes, followed by Firebug at 10). Sure, it's probably not gonna be all too unique, but SWAT is toy-starved, so I'm happy with anything really.

MK23: I love this pistol! And having some cheaper, lighter, mag-based self-defence on Sharpshooter is sorely needed, imo. I know it has some anti-teamwork potential, but the game is WAY past having that KF1-design these days.

Also, I feel mad at myself for not checking these forums earlier, as I am about to post a BIG HRG-suggestion thread on reddit, which would (I guess?) fit in here perfectly. I will link to that one over here as well, once I'm done :)
What about the gunslinger? He only got 8... Unless you count the crossperked guns as well? Actually, if we count unique guns, the Commando only has 7 !

But I guess the Firebug is quite limited because obviously his weapons all needs to inflict fire damage, so they're almost all tied to the perk alone. Anyway. I believe both the SWAT and GS should get something new that really spices up their game. Although I doubt the SR3-MP would be the one...

That's actually a good point about the sharp regarding the MK23. I only focused on the GS where I thought that indeed, it would act pretty much as a better 1911 (even if it just has more ammo per mags). But it could be greatly helpful to the SS (although I already keep a handy .500 at all times, making the needs for a pistol fairly moot)

Always dug your takes on balancing, additions and new ideas for the game though. So eager to see your suggestions relating to the HRG formula !
 

Blanc_NextWhite

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 30, 2020
2
0
1
Weapon: Gears of War Lancer
Perk: Commando
Function: Use of a combined melee and rifle can allow dynamic handling of a situation from close-fire support to meleeing fleshpounds
Reasoning: It should keep every horde at least "nice and soft" for easy frags and even if you're getting swarmed, it gives a chance for an opening.
 

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,424
523
113


As I promised, my big list of HRG suggestions:


Some notes on the suggestions:

1) I "only" added enough HRG weapons so that there is a total of 5 for each perk, if counting the ones that already exist in the game. This means 2 HRG weapons for Medic, 3 for Firebug, 5 for Commando, and 4 for the rest.

2) I tried really hard to come up with unique effects, playstyles and/or damagetypes for every class. Some might even feel a tiny tad role-breaking, but I hope not too much. I have some "Roles"-explanation beneath their descriptions too, which might help explain their purpose a bit further.

3) While I tried to put as much balancing into them, the numbers are more concepts than "set in stone". The fire rates is something I put quite some effort into to get the "right feel" though (by listening to metronome/BPM videos on Youtube for reference, hehe).

4) If you wonder why I suggested this on a google doc, it's because I'd like to be able to change the ideas in values and effects later on. Sidenote to that: Massive respect to those who post these kind of suggestions in pure image-form - I tried that at first, but MAN does it take effort (Especially with MS Paint, I have NO idea ho to use Photoshop! xD)

EDIT: I also posted this on Reddit, if you prefer to discuss these ideas over there.
 
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Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,424
523
113
What about the gunslinger? He only got 8... Unless you count the crossperked guns as well? Actually, if we count unique guns, the Commando only has 7 !

But I guess the Firebug is quite limited because obviously his weapons all needs to inflict fire damage, so they're almost all tied to the perk alone. Anyway. I believe both the SWAT and GS should get something new that really spices up their game. Although I doubt the SR3-MP would be the one...

That's actually a good point about the sharp regarding the MK23. I only focused on the GS where I thought that indeed, it would act pretty much as a better 1911 (even if it just has more ammo per mags). But it could be greatly helpful to the SS (although I already keep a handy .500 at all times, making the needs for a pistol fairly moot)

Always dug your takes on balancing, additions and new ideas for the game though. So eager to see your suggestions relating to the HRG formula !
Yes I did count all Crossperk weapons. Sure, some basicly don't count (like Spitfire on Gunslinger/Sharpshooter), but it still stands: All weapons considered, the SWAT has the least of them all, in total. Sure, as you say, the SR3-MP probably won't feel all too unique, but it's still SOMETHING :p

Well, Yoshiro's voting-list said the MK23 was for the Sharpie, so... And I don't mind it being for GS as well, as a "better 1911", tbh. I just like that pistol a lot :D

I also quoted you in my previous post btw, so you can see my HRG suggestions which I just put up :)
 
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QuothTheSeagull

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 13, 2016
5
1
3
Liking the SR3 idea. Could even be cross-perk with Commando, like the Thompson.

Lukewarm on the Mk.23; the real deal was well known for being quite overweight for what it needed to be, so having it as a "lighter" alternative back-up weapon isn't making sense to me right now. Though the general idea of having a higher-capacity backup as an alternative to the big revolvers is sound.

I did have an idea recently, though I'm not sure how it'd balance. The gist of it is to give the gunslinger a bit of higher-tier explosive weaponry.

Weapon: HRG Screaming Eagle (Deagle reskin)
Perk: Gunslinger, Demolitionist
Function: Shoots individual explosive pellets that detonate on contact
Reasoning: Give gunslinger more viability against FPs on their own
 

Chains

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 24, 2021
7
1
3
Weapon: m1887 Sawed off Lever action Shotgun (Maybe with a duckbill that changes the spread to an oval)
Perk: Gunslinger, Support
Function: Low Tier Repeating shotgun with higher damage and spread then the HZ12 Multi Action and a higher rate of fire then the SG 500 but lower magazine size of 5 but also low weight of 4
Reasoning: This gun could be a low weight backup to kill tougher trash mobs like gorefiends and bloats but also clots and rioters with its high spread it would allow to kill multiple clots in one shot

m1887.jpg + duckbill.jpg


Weapon: China Lake Pump Action Grenade Launcher
Perk: Support, Demolitionist
Function: A magazine fed Grenade launcher with a lower rate of fire then the M32 but higher then the m79
Reasoning: The m32 is with its long reload time very tedious to use and i often only shoot one magazine of 6 shots with it and after that use another weapon for the wave to avoid the reload. the china lake would be a little less powerfull in terms of dps but would give you more sustainable fire over a longer time because of its fast shotgun like reload.
China Lake.png


Weapon: Chainsaw
Perk: Berserker
Function: its a freakin chainsaw common
Reasoning: A weapon for unreasonable people like me
 

Chains

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 24, 2021
7
1
3
Weapon: H&K CAW (Would need to be renamed because of Brand name)
Perk: Sharpshooter, Support
Function: a scoped semi automatic rifle that shoots 3 flechetes in one bullet with a relatively low spread
Reasoning: It would be a crossperk weapon between support and sharpshooter wich most people would think is impossible and it gives the support a weapon for long range engagements while giving the sharpshooter a weapon that could kill multiple clots in one shot at long range.
CAW.jpg


Weapon: H&K G11 (again copyrighted brand name)
Perk: Commando, Sharpshooter
Function: A scoped bullpup assault rifle with a 50 round magazine and relatively low damage because of its small caliber. it would have a 3 round burst mode at a rate of fire of 2100 rounds per minute wich would have no recoil at all before all 3 shots are fired making them 100% acurate and it would have a full auto mode at a rate of fire of about 500 rounds per minute
Reasoning: unlike the L1A1 wich is allready a crossperk weapon between sharpshooter and commando this gun features a high magazine capacity low damage and low recoil it would also be slightly lighter then the L1A1 basicly making it the complete opposite of that weapon for players with a different playstyle. the low damage can be offset by the headshot damage multiplier of the sharpshooter usually with weapons like the L1A1 you dont need to make headshots but with a weapon like this you better should if you dont want to run out of ammo.

G11.png
 
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LazyholloW

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 15, 2021
4
6
3
And one wore thing. New paid weapons are "awesome" and all, but what about zed spawn system? It's kinda garbage. And please for the love of God don't tell me that zed spawn system "works as intended"
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,853
304
83
Belgium
As I promised, my big list of HRG suggestions:


Some notes on the suggestions:

1) I "only" added enough HRG weapons so that there is a total of 5 for each perk, if counting the ones that already exist in the game. This means 2 HRG weapons for Medic, 3 for Firebug, 5 for Commando, and 4 for the rest.

2) I tried really hard to come up with unique effects, playstyles and/or damagetypes for every class. Some might even feel a tiny tad role-breaking, but I hope not too much. I have some "Roles"-explanation beneath their descriptions too, which might help explain their purpose a bit further.

3) While I tried to put as much balancing into them, the numbers are more concepts than "set in stone". The fire rates is something I put quite some effort into to get the "right feel" though (by listening to metronome/BPM videos on Youtube for reference, hehe).

4) If you wonder why I suggested this on a google doc, it's because I'd like to be able to change the ideas in values and effects later on. Sidenote to that: Massive respect to those who post these kind of suggestions in pure image-form - I tried that at first, but MAN does it take effort (Especially with MS Paint, I have NO idea ho to use Photoshop! xD)

EDIT: I also posted this on Reddit, if you prefer to discuss these ideas over there.

Holy **** ! I didn't expect to see THAT MANY of them ! Even having 5 of them is already quite impressive... I wouldn't have been able to even think of so many, let alone consider them for inclusion. You definitely took time and effort to make it worthwhile.

However, as to avoid polluting that topic with what I assume would be lengthy discussions... Would you mind either taking it to the PMs or simply creating a new topic for them? I won't feel like commenting on EVERYTHING right now.

I can already tell you I like the Breaching Talon, Windcatcher, Severance Rifle, Oculus, Accelerator, Lionheart, Thunderbird, Demogoblin, Crosscut, Leech Blades, Polaris, Riot Shocker, Phalanx, Dawnbreaker and Rafficas !

(as well as some other weapons that I would love to see just for the sake of it... and having a good laugh. Like the Ballista !)

@Chains I mean... Most weapons in KF2 have their real names, so I don't get why they would have to rename your ideas? I dig them though, but mostly for their designs more than what they would bring to the game...

Also @Blanc_NextWhite , I believe adding trademarked weapons could prove to be a problem. I'm not familiar with how copyrights work, but I would assume that something as iconic as the Lancer could be problematic, isn't it? Unless Tripwire somehow gets a collab with The Coalition... and so late into the game's lifecycle, that might prove to be quite unprobable. Even a "lancer-inspired" rifle would probably fool no one.

And @LazyholloW ... You do realize it's totally not the right topic to talk about that, right?
 
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Yoshiro

Senior Community Manager
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
13,329
4,054
113
Once agian, thank you all for these suggestions and great conversation about key points about how these weapons could fill out a perk and add new gameplay possibilities. I'll be working on making sure the design team has all this information at their fingertips as they move ahead.
 

GhostoBoi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 19, 2020
4
0
1
Weapon: Bio-pressor [A FN 5.7 with a Police Baton]
Perk: Gunslinger --- Berserker
Function: A gun with High penetration and Medium bullet capacity great for dealing with Zed Trash, if they ever get close make them learn some with a good hit of your Baton which can stun enemies with enough hits
Reasoning: I think it would be really fun shooting some trash zeds with a 5.7 and then hitting them really HARD with a Baton. Thats it, just pure fun
[Shooting and aiming will still be like playing with a pistol, but shoving with it will make you hit with the baton, you can still parry as all the other melee berserker weapons]
 

Qon

Member
Jan 14, 2012
194
15
18
Weapon: Combat Slug Rifle (Combat shotgun with slug rounds) Tier 3 (maybe 4, but then don't implement the suggested nerfs)
Perk: Sharpshooter
Function: Like Combat shotgun (great and fun gun to use) but with a single accurate pellet that does similar damage. Significantly more damage and fire rate than Winchester and SPX. Maybe very slightly reduced damage compared to Supports combat shotgun and some increased ammo price and slightly lower total ammo to make it just as rewarding to shoot but not just a straight up better gun with the improved rifle pinpoint accuracy.
Reasoning: I love the combat shotgun and the sharpshooter perk. The single load rifles (Winchester + SPX) are good but this would work more like a dedicated big game killer in that style of gun. Mosin Nagant doesn't have the firerate and M14 doesn't have the firepower to be used where Railgun or M99 is used.

I'm all for converting all the other shotguns as well into HRG Slug rifles for sharp. But this is the one I want the most.
SG500: Would be cool to have another T1 gun similar to Winchester with massive damage but slower speed.
Doom: Like a railgun you can partially fire.
Boom: Similar to Doom. Why not both?
AA12: Why not? It would be ridiculous and crazy strong. Some might say that's a good thing. It would be a bit unusual weapon for sharp, but on the other hand it would let sharp be more flexible.
 

OnionBubs

Active member
Apr 27, 2021
112
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28
Looking at everything in the poll, the only ones that stand out to me as being maybe worthwhile are the scoped rifle for Sharpshooter and the Vector for Medic. (Though I wou

I did have an idea recently, though I'm not sure how it'd balance. The gist of it is to give the gunslinger a bit of higher-tier explosive weaponry.

Weapon: HRG Screaming Eagle (Deagle reskin)
Perk: Gunslinger, Demolitionist
Function: Shoots individual explosive pellets that detonate on contact
Reasoning: Give gunslinger more viability against FPs on their own
But...Gunslinger's already one of the best classes to deal with Fleshpounds on their own. Like, that's their main thing--magdumping with the Deags/500s/2011s and killing them through sheer headshot burst damage.

Why would a class reliant on headshots want a weapon that can't get them? The HX25 crossperk is already really terrible on Gunslinger.

Weapon: Combat Slug Rifle (Combat shotgun with slug rounds) Tier 3 (maybe 4, but then don't implement the suggested nerfs)
Perk: Sharpshooter
Function: Like Combat shotgun (great and fun gun to use) but with a single accurate pellet that does similar damage. Significantly more damage and fire rate than Winchester and SPX. Maybe very slightly reduced damage compared to Supports combat shotgun and some increased ammo price and slightly lower total ammo to make it just as rewarding to shoot but not just a straight up better gun with the improved rifle pinpoint accuracy.
Reasoning: I love the combat shotgun and the sharpshooter perk. The single load rifles (Winchester + SPX) are good but this would work more like a dedicated big game killer in that style of gun. Mosin Nagant doesn't have the firerate and M14 doesn't have the firepower to be used where Railgun or M99 is used.
OK, but here's a serious question: Leaving aside that Sharpshooter doesn't really need shotguns(?), Does Sharpshooter really need another single-shot, high-damage projectile weapon? I'm honestly trying to figure out where this comes into play.

The Winchester is fine for what it is--a starter marksman's weapon reliant on headshots. The SPX is "the Winchester, but hits harder." Good on its own, can be upgraded to do stupid damage. The M14 is already an insanely good weapon if you can aim, giving you a Swiss Army gun for both large Zeds and trash (same for the FN-FAL). The Mosin is...a meme weapon. The Railgun and M99 are for when you don't want to deal with actually trying against large Zeds.

So having said all that, this thing is...basically the Crossbow, but just better? Does it have spread? Is it worth taking over the already very good options that Sharp gets? Is Sharpshooter supposed to have shotguns?
 

OnionBubs

Active member
Apr 27, 2021
112
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28
I accidentally hit post early on the first one and bumped up against the time limit. My bad about double-posting, then, but I wanted to make my thoughts heard on the poll weapons as well.

Looking at everything in the poll, the only ones that stand out to me as being maybe worthwhile are the scoped rifle for Sharpshooter and the Vector for Medic. (Though I would personally prefer the M7A3 for the Medic, unique as it was, over the Schneidzekk.)

But all of them give me pause for thought, because a lot of these ideas sound like "ideas for *variety's sake*." Which I could care less about; what I want to know is if they're actually useful. Or if they'd wind up unbalanced, or as crutch weapons:
  • Scoped bolt-action rifle -- This confuses me a bit. Is this implying a bolt action alternative to the same tier as the SPX? That was basically supposed to be the Nagant, yes? What would this offer that the SPX and Nagant don't already handle? You can only go so far with "slow fire rate, high damage;" after a point, you're just filling out a list of "this would be cool." My main concern is that it would offer too much power early on. Remember that the SPX has already been through, what, two nerfs already? Couldn't you just re-buff that?
  • Incendiary Launcher -- OK, so a four-shot rocket launcher that sets things on fire. I have a hard time believing it would be balanced in the slightest. Does it have an arming distance? Can you use dud rockets at point blank to remove Scrakes just like the Demo can, thereby removing another weakness from Firebug? Does it delete Fleshpounds with explosive damage? Remember how absurd the Husk Cannon was on release, when you could fire uncharged shots and delete everything for free...
  • Vector -- It's fine, I guess. An uncontrollable fire rate might be problematic if it's too fast to tap-fire on full-auto, but there's worse ideas. I'd still prefer the M7A3...
  • Slow Firing LMG -- LMGs and such are already a balancing problem in this game because they don't really fit the Commando's marksmanship role, but that aside, we already have slow-firing LMGs from a game mechanics standpoint; they're called assault rifles and Commando already has enough to line the walls on Biotics Lab. Don't see what another one would bring to the table other than "because variety."
  • Mk 23 -- Eh. Personally, I get by with the .500 when running M99 because it already kills so many things with one bodyshot alone (and kills Rioters with one headshot anyway). A spammier-but-weaker gun isn't going to help me any on that front.
  • SR3-MP -- Unless the Zed armor system is reworked in its entirety, this is a bad idea. Currently, the only time a gun "penetrates armor" is if it just flat out does so much damage in one shot that it outright kills the Zed. Which means the SWAT would be getting a gun that hits basically as hard as a Sharpshooter or Gunslinger...which goes entirely against the idea of SWAT's "low damage, high RoF" design. Giving it something that hits that hard with a SMG firing rate = bye-bye everything, especially with Rapid Assault. Yes, SWAT has a bad time with armored enemies, but that's because armored enemies were a terrible idea to begin with.
  • Demo mine -- What would this offer that C4 doesn't already do? C4 is already one of Demo's most useful tools; so good that it's banned on CD servers.
  • WP Grenade -- What would this offer that the Molotov doesn't already do? The Molotov does a great job at handling chokes full of trash Zeds without sticking around too long, and accurate throwers can land directs to kite fields in a pinch.
  • Sonic whatsit -- Bleh. If it's anything like the Vampire, it's probably worth booting anyone who uses it in HoE. Mostly creates noise for the gore engine, but it's not like we don't have tons of weapons that already blow things up.
  • Rioter buffer -- We already have multiple on-demand Medic buffers: Healthrower, 501 grenades, throwing grenades, and I guess technically the Airborne Agent gas. Does this thing even heal? If not, it's pointless.
 
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dazzle01

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 28, 2021
1
0
1
Weapon: QBZ-95
Perk: Commando
Function: Fully-automatic assault rifle
Reasoning:
95 automatic rifles,is developed by China North Industries Group Corporation of assault rifles,gun belonging to 95 families as part of the current People's Liberation Army,one of the standard automatic rifle,which is developed by China's second small-caliber rifle,but also People's Liberation Army troops mounted the first large-scale out a small caliber automatic rifles.
 

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Agent Pickles

Member
Apr 15, 2021
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  • Sonic whatsit -- Bleh. If it's anything like the Vampire, it's probably worth booting anyone who uses it in HoE. Mostly creates noise for the gore engine, but it's not like we don't have tons of weapons that already blow things up.
  • Rioter buffer -- We already have multiple on-demand Medic buffers: Healthrower, 501 grenades, throwing grenades, and I guess technically the Airborne Agent gas. Does this thing even heal? If not, it's pointless.
I love what you said about the other weapons and agree with the vast majority of it. However, you didn't comment on what makes these two weapons unique.

While the Sonic Discombobulator's sonic blast that was described by the original authors suggested a gib machine, the devs note a "small to moderate damage," so it seems unlikely that it'll manifest as noise for the gore engine. More importantly, what makes it special isn't its ability to create damage, but to prevent damage with the sonic shield effect. What are your thoughts on a sonic shield?

I'm not sure I follow the logic with, "the medic already has numerous ways to heal," followed by, "well if it can't heal then screw it." I don't mean to put words into your mouth. That's just how I interpret your quote.

While I'll agree that having a medic that isn't a dedicated healer might not be useful for well-oiled teams full of minmaxed teammates who all think and play with the same expectations in order to survive the currently-specced HoE gameplay, players unfamiliar with the medic or prestige players that are starting over may appreciate having access to non-healing buffs at low levels. High-level players might enjoy having a more well-rounded medic (or at least something different from grinding out their usual specs), especially in solo play or on small teams where a medic might be called upon to do more damage. And let's not forget that a good defense is a good offense. A medic stacked in offensive buffs will reduce the need for healing.

(...and imagine if teammates get glowing eyes like the Rioter effect! Important? No. But a fun touch, especially for DAR, DJ Scully, the Fosters, and Rev. Alberts. Glowing eyes during an emote party at the end? You know that'll wind up on YouTube...)

This provides players and teams with more gameplay options. If the overcharged area effect is an aura centered on the healer, teams may have to focus on sticking together rather than creating a protective distance. Healz-boosting minmaxers might not care, but if balanced with proper range, duration of effect, cost, amount and cost of ammo (if any), and potency of effect, it could be a 1 lb option for any perk to round out their arsenal (it doesn't have to be a medic tool, but might still benefit from the Medic's Syringe Potency skill bonus). Heck, it could be a re-skinned welder for all I care. Last man standing? Zap yourself for a temporary speed boost so that you can be chased long enough to heal... or run more quickly into that raging Fleshpound that was just around the corner.

The HRG options might best be evaluated in concept rather than specific executions.

We don't know exactly how the devs will manifest the ideas, if they choose them. They could apply all three proposed HRG concepts into one weapon. A battery-powered Vector that has two overcharge options can create either a temporary sonic shield or an aura of Rioter effect for nearby teammates (activated via iron sights button and switchable via alt-fire). Due to the lack of looking down the sights, regular fire would have lousy range and accuracy, but since the gun is powered by batteries, maybe it shoots beams of EMP energy, with increased stun, snare, or knockdown potential toward EMP-vulnerable zeds. Why give SWAT an armor-shredding SMG when we could equip players with an SMG that uses a zed's armor against it? This kills a lot of birds with one gun.

Or pack that into an HRG Mk23 pistol and you've scratched that itch for Sharps, Slingers, and Medics (in my mind, the medic could use a better pistol more than a better SMG).

I don't think the berserker needs another weapon, but front-line shielding works well for the EMP-familiar 'serker, so give the sonic shield to them in the form of an energized chain/whip. Light attacks do slashes, with the last slash in the combo wrapping around a single zed and having a snare effect similar to the EDAR Trapper effect. An EMP-powered heavy attack does a quick 360 swing, followed by slam attack that stumbles, stuns, knocks down, or panics nearby zeds. "Parrying" creates energy-infused spinning that function as the sonic shield concept. It won't interrupt a melee attack but it neutralizes projectiles. Make the 'serk consume and change batteries to retain balance. Run out of batteries? Well you can still smack things with it, but your EMP discharges and shields are gone (maybe, without battery power, the alt-fire button will once again parry).

In my experience, berserkers are often lone wolf type players who Leroy Jenkins themselves around corners, down corridors, and toward some glory- (and dosh-) grabbing... followed by them complaining whenever the medic didn't also separate from the team in order to keep the Leroy alive. With slower swings, damage on par with the katana, and less melee defense, this chain weapon is more of a crowd-control, rather than crowd-killing, option. The berserker stuns them up and teammates shoot them down, especially with EMP-vulnerable zeds, and everybody gets dosh. A 7 lb weight and no parry will limit a typical loadout and perk skill tree, further refreshing the tactics towards team-friendly play.

It's not entirely unlike the EMP-'nade + Pulverizer, but further cements their EMP specialization, especially when combined with the Teslauncher.

Lots of options, so I'll ask again: what are your thoughts on a discombobulator shield and Rioter buffs? Might they have a place in the game?

And as a side question: how would you like to see the HRG Vampire changed in order to better fit into HoE teamplay? What if being covered in the blood of your enemies doesn't just heal, but provides the Rioter effect (bear in mind that the Rioter effect doesn't replace the similar Medic perk skills, but stacks with them)?
 

OnionBubs

Active member
Apr 27, 2021
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While the Sonic Discombobulator's sonic blast that was described by the original authors suggested a gib machine, the devs note a "small to moderate damage," so it seems unlikely that it'll manifest as noise for the gore engine. More importantly, what makes it special isn't its ability to create damage, but to prevent damage with the sonic shield effect. What are your thoughts on a sonic shield?
It's cool, I guess? I've always been a fan of just shooting the things stuff before the shield is needed, but that's me.

I'm not sure I follow the logic with, "the medic already has numerous ways to heal," followed by, "well if it can't heal then screw it." I don't mean to put words into your mouth. That's just how I interpret your quote.
That's fair; I could've phrased that better than my stream-of-consciousness thoughts.

What I meant is that--at least coming from the standpoint of how I understand Rioters work--this weapon seems like it would be just a way to buff players, but faster. I mean, Rioters don't heal, they just give one instant buff and that's it.

So my line of thinking is that this weapon would basically take away a healing option in favor of giving a weapon that can...buff players? Which we wouldn't really need with 3 weapons that can already buff AND heal groups at the same time.

Unless maybe the plan is that there's new kinds of buffs specifically with this Rioter thing, but that's not been mentioned elsewhere.

While I'll agree that having a medic that isn't a dedicated healer might not be useful for well-oiled teams full of minmaxed teammates who all think and play with the same expectations in order to survive the currently-specced HoE gameplay, players unfamiliar with the medic or prestige players that are starting over may appreciate having access to non-healing buffs at low levels. High-level players might enjoy having a more well-rounded medic (or at least something different from grinding out their usual specs), especially in solo play or on small teams where a medic might be called upon to do more damage. And let's not forget that a good defense is a good offense. A medic stacked in offensive buffs will reduce the need for healing.
I guess. My main complaint is that there's already a lot of lackluster Medic weapons and I don't really see the point in adding more unless they just blow the competition away, like the Incision (although I don't blame TWI for wanting to add something that powerful again).

I get it, the class is popular and it gets a lot of fun toys to incentivize people to play it, but that has the knock-on effect of encouraging a lot of mediocre loadouts. Whereas these days I'm just looking for a Medic willing to throw darts at me and not mainline the Hemoclobber+Hemogoblin loadouts.
 

Agent Pickles

Member
Apr 15, 2021
98
35
18
It's cool, I guess? I've always been a fan of just shooting the things stuff before the shield is needed, but that's me.
Haha! Sounds like a damn good strategy to me!

What I meant is that--at least coming from the standpoint of how I understand Rioters work--this weapon seems like it would be just a way to buff players, but faster. I mean, Rioters don't heal, they just give one instant buff and that's it.

So my line of thinking is that this weapon would basically take away a healing option in favor of giving a weapon that can...buff players? Which we wouldn't really need with 3 weapons that can already buff AND heal groups at the same time.

Unless maybe the plan is that there's new kinds of buffs specifically with this Rioter thing, but that's not been mentioned elsewhere.

I think you're understanding the tool as intended. I imagined...
  • about +10-15% boost (something like half of what a fully-stacked perk buff offers, but the tool would not stack with itself) to...
  • faster speeds (movement, reload, and melee attack speed), and
  • increased strength (more melee damage, including weapon bash, and lower recoil for those with guns), but
  • no damage boost to guns, because pulling the trigger with more strength doesn't give the projectile more energy (although it could be argued that it should improve gun damage since the Rioter has the same effect on ranged zed attacks—I just can't rationalize the lack of logic, personally), and
  • a longer duration than what the perks offer (the Rioter rally lasts 15 seconds), but maybe instead of stacking effects, it could stack duration (5, 10, and up to 15 seconds) or the effects diminish as the timer ticks down...
but I'm not a dev so who knows. But my imagination provides some overlap and some uniqueness when compared to the current Medic buff abilities, and remains consistent with what the Rioter effect has on zeds.

So... no healing or damage but that is intentional to keep it balanced, lightweight, and accessible. Really, there's no reason why the tool can't be an upgraded syringe, except that an upgraded syringe then takes advantage of the Medic's passive perk syringe bonuses, which might create a balance concern. Alt-fire would switch between healing and buffing. But that comes at the expensive of the aura and might make it inaccessible for cross perks. Worth a beta, perhaps.

Not exactly revolutionary (it doesn't raise the dead) and far from dominating, but...
  • currently, a single or solo medic can't effectively be buffed. Medics don't get any offensive buffs through darts or symbiosis, so 3/5 of their team-based perks are mostly lost on them, or...
  • they're stuck with spamming themselves with their syringe for buffs, which is too impractical unless they need the heals anyway,
  • it would be nice to take advantage of the "selfish" offensive perk skill options in a team environment from time to time, even if the medic loses some team-buffing efficiency (it sucks when a game becomes a chore for grinding for other peoples' expectations/satisfaction. If I'm doing that, I should get paid), or
  • keep their team-friendly perk skills and enhance them with this tool,
  • hopefully it will be lightweight and potent enough to be attractive as an off-perk option. Finally boost the effectiveness of your favorite Tier 5 weapons, even without a Medic,
  • and let's not forget the aura effect, which the offensive perk skills don't provide, even if it consumes more ammo...
...all at the cost of switching weapons, some dosh, a little skill, some ammo, and a little weight? If it weighs only one pound, a player can still roll with a Clobber, Goblin, 201, and this new tool. Or drop the 201 for a 101 and add a couple of upgrades. That's not bad!

I get it, the class is popular and it gets a lot of fun toys to incentivize people to play it, but that has the knock-on effect of encouraging a lot of mediocre loadouts. Whereas these days I'm just looking for a Medic willing to throw darts at me and not mainline the Hemoclobber+Hemogoblin loadouts.

While the idea of a medic is popular, in my experience the medic isn't popular. Most randoms that join my friends are Sharps, Demos, Firebugs, Commandos, or Berserkers. I've only seen one other Medic join my friends, but since one of my friends plays the medic almost exclusively, maybe some randoms switched to avoid having two medics. But she's not always available to play, so that can't be the only reason.

I'm not a minmaxer so I don't pay close attention to loadouts. In an ideal world I would always play the perfect system perfectly, but barring that possibility, I'd rather play an imperfect loadout well than suck at a loadout which the stats say is better when played perfectly. If my ideal loadout happens to minmax the perk, great. But if it doesn't, oh well.

That expectation of a perfect game, which some teammates carry with them, is especially difficult for the medic, which most teammates lean too heavily upon. It is especially unfortunate that so many co-op games carry this myth of, "not only is the Medic vital to the team, but the Medic is a survivor OR it is a team player. It can't be both." Really, though, the medic isn't vital. There are plenty of co-op games that don't have them. Hopefully KF3 will have healing without the medic perk.

And hopefully players aren't getting too upset over loadouts, because then maybe those players need to become the medic and/or play at a level where they don't get hit so much. I've run into that with other games and it makes me want to troll teams by minmaxing the medic and then only heal myself until I get voted out. Just because I'm a medic doesn't mean I owe other players anything.

Ideally, the inclusion or absence of a medic shouldn't make or break a team any more than any other perk. Perhaps a Rioter tool will help create that cross-perk balance.

Regardless, I'm happy to hear that the perk is more popular than I thought, even if it still is a struggle to get enough darts. There is no such thing as too many darts! :LOL:
 

Zerachiel333

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 29, 2021
3
0
1
Weapon: Chain whip

Perk: Berserker

Function: Would be very practical to reach any zeds at a distance, could hold alt fire to increase swing damage as heavies, sweeping light attacks and a riposte weapon when parrying.

Reasoning: I'd see this being the only parrying weapon that returns an attack from a zed strike, as the chain could grapple around and deflect. Throughout many weapon choices, this would definitely be in the unique category. Flexible, versatile and the distinctive sound of the chain rattling would make it blend well with zed carnage.