Killing Floor 2 Halloween 2021 Beta 2

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
To opt into this beta on Steam, join the "preview" branch available in the Beta drop-down list. Admins will need to use the following SteamCMD flag:
  • app_update 232130 -beta preview

To opt into this beta on EGS, the Beta will be accessible within KF2 owners’ game libraries as a separate install called “Killing Floor 2 Beta”. Users may need to restart their EGS launcher for the Beta to populate and be accessible to install. Progress for stats and inventory is shared between both versions on EGS so for users switching between Beta and Live be sure to sync your game data to use the latest timestamp to prevent any lost progress from participating in the Beta. The Beta on EGS also includes its own dedicated server within the install for your own personal hosting needs for this version.

Event
Day of the Zed
  • Welcome boys and girls to the Day of the Zed! Are you prepared to visit Netherhold and unveil all the secrets of this bastion of torture? Discover the hidden passages and maybe you will be able to survive. Speaking of surviving... two new weekly modes that will test the skills of the most veteran mercs, especially Abandon All Hope, our ultimate challenge for those who see Hell on Earth as child’s play. For those who can't handle the heat of AOH, perhaps journeying to the Wild West London will sate your inner Cowboy spirit. Only Gunslingers and Sharpshooters may apply. Finally, the Horzine devs have some offerings that may help you with these challenges, two new HRG weapons ready and loaded, the electrifying HRG Disruptor and the explosive HRG Tommy Boom.
  • Beta 2 Start 9/21/2021, Beta 2 End on the final release.


Addressed Community Feedback
As mentioned in the 2020 Killing Floor 2 ‘State of the Game’ our goal is to bring to the community a continued stream of QOL changes for each update throughout the year. Please continue to report any QOL changes you believe should be added to the game by submitting your feedback in the ‘general’ section on our official forums at: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/forum/killing-floor-2

Balance
  • Weapons
    • Piranha Pistol (single)
      • Ammo pool reduced from 72 to 66
      • Block damage mitigation reduced from 40% to 30%
      • Parry damage mitigation reduced from 50% to 40%
      • Ammo price per mag increased from 32 to 38
      • Iron sights offset slightly adjusted to the center of the screen
    • Piranha Pistols (dual)
      • Ammo pool reduced from 72 to 66
      • Ammo price per mag increased from 64 to 76
    • Corrupter Carbine
      • Seed explosion damage reduced from 400 to 300
      • Seed gas duration when activating the seed reduced from 5.5 to 5 seconds
      • Seed Healing when impacting on players reduced from 30 to 25
    • HRG Disrupter
      • Hit damage of primary fire mode reduced from 90 to 80
      • Hit damage of alt fire mode reduced from 300 to 120
      • Ammo pool reduced from 135 to 120
      • Ammo price per mag increased from 65 to 70
    • HRG Tommy Boom
      • Hit damage increase from 25 to 30
      • DamageRadius increase from 150 to 200
      • Upgrades damage boost increased from 15% to 20% for each tier
      • Initial SpareMags increased from 1 to 2
    • Mine Reconstructor
      • Healing of mine explosions increased from 4/40 to 5/50
    • Hemoclobber
      • Heavy attack gas explosion healing decreased from 20 to 15
  • Weekly Modes
    • Abandon All Hope
      • Health boost of bosses reduced from 100% to 75%
      • Movement speed boost of bosses increased from 20% to 25%
      • Spawn enraged mechanic removed from all zeds except Quarter Pounds
      • Increased the rate of Quarter Pounds to spawn as Fleshpounds.


Designer Notes :

The Piranha Pistols seems to be in a very good position, both for berserkers and for gunslingers. Even so, it was overperforming on the hands of experienced players. We want to reinforce the retrievable ammo mechanic so we reduced the ammo pool and increased the ammo price for each mag, in order to give more importance to each round. Also, we reduced the damage mitigation of block and parry of the single version, as we understand that makes more sense regarding the weight and cost of that variant.

We are also happy with the current performance of the Corrupter Carbine. Only the seed mechanic seems to shine too much. So we slightly reduce its damage and healing capacity.

The HRG Disrupter in gunslinger hands was overperforming a lot. We implemented a drastic damage reduction to the alt-fire. Even so, the EMP potential remains intact as we think that it's what makes this weapon unique. We also made small adjustments on the primary fire damage, ammo pool and ammo cost.

On the other hand, the HRG Tommy Boom was not performing as well as intended, especially in the latest waves and against big Zeds. We boost the hit damage and explosion radius. The damage bonus of the weapon upgrades was also improved. Finally, the weapon will count with one additional ammo mag as spare ammo when purchasing it.

The Mine Reconstructor performance has substantially improved. Still, we got several requests by Field Medics for boosting its healing capability, so we slightly increased it.

Finally, the Hemoclobber heavy attack healing was tuned down a bit more, as this weapon is still outshining other options, especially in the Berserker perk.



Bug Fixes
Also mentioned in the 2020 Killing Floor 2 ‘State of the Game’ our goal is to bring to the community a continued stream of community-reported bug fixes for each update throughout the year. Please continue to report any bugs you discover by visiting our official forums at: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/forum/killing-floor-2 and posting in the ‘PC’ or ‘Console’ sections.

Top Community Issues:
  • “Phantom Players” fix on servers that left players left on servers improperly.

Maps:
  • Netherhold
    • Fixes to areas where Zeds would not target players.
    • Fixes to collision in multiple locations.
    • Fixes to texturing and z-fighting in multiple locations.
    • Fixes to LODs in various locations.
  • Moonbase:
    • Replaced cast iron sewer covers throughout the map.
    • Addressed ventilation spawn that was missing an opening
Weeklies:
  • Wild West London Weekly
    • Fixed issue in which environment music would play over top the Wild West music after player death.
    • Removed non-interactive weapon pickups from Netherhold during this weekly

Weapons:
  • Piranha Pistols
    • Fix to apply correct shared content string.
    • Update to Copper Skin textures.
    • Fixed issue in which weapon wouldn’t fire with alt dual pistol option enabled in gameplay settings.
  • Corrupter Carbine
    • Fix to apply correct shared content string.
    • Weapon no longer has additional spin when dropped.
    • Animation sway added while using iron sights.
  • HRG Disruptor
    • Fix to animation of reload in 3rd person camera causing model stretching.

UI
  • VS
    • Fixed issue in which lingering match length UI settings from Survival would affect VS server matchmaking.
  • Trader Pod
    • Fixed Auto Fill Armor pricing display being inaccurate to true dosh cost.
  • Localization
    • Fixed German localization appearing in Seasonal Objectives text for Chinese Simplified language setting

As always, thank you for your continued support!
 
Weekly Modes
  • Abandon All Hope
    • Health boost of bosses reduced from 100% to 75%
    • Movement speed boost of bosses increased from 20% to 25%
    • Spawn enraged mechanic removed from all zeds except Quarter Pounds
    • Increased the rate of Quarter Pounds to spawn as Fleshpounds.
I'm not gonna lie this is a change I really really don't like. I don't mind more Fleshpounds than Quarters, but removing the spawn enraged mechanic from Abandon All Hope makes utterly no sense. The entire point of this mode is it's stupidly hectic there's constantly things in your face and zeds which were otherwise push-overs to experienced players like Scrakes are suddenly not willing to wait around while you deliver an M99 round to their brain is what made this mode my and several of my friends my favourite weekly and something we hoped might become an official difficulty.
I really hope you'll consider reverting that change as nerfing the mode intended to be ridiculously difficult is pretty counter intuitive and honestly AAH in it's previous state was one of the few things that got me interested in this game again.
 
I don't mind more Fleshpounds than Quarters, but removing the spawn enraged mechanic from Abandon All Hope makes utterly no sense.
I can understand not having enraged FPs since having them automatically enraged means that perks which DID have 0-100 options (RPG knockdowns) suddenly don't have that option due to RNG deciding thus, meaning your options to do no-hits are now limited to Railgun/M99.

That said, I don't know why Scrake rage got removed. Scrakes are squishier than FPs and don't have incap immunity when raged, allowing players to still take advantage of varying takedown options, so I don't understand that design decision.
 
Could use some clarification on this patch note
Trader Pod
  • Fixed Auto Fill Armor pricing display being inaccurate to true dosh cost.
Does this mean that armor costs $3 per one point of armor or $3 per one percentage of your maximum armor? This is an important differentiation because during the course of Beta 1, a full suit of armor costs $375 for Commandos and Survivalists while the Field Medic would have to shell out $450
 
Parry strength of single Piranha also reduced from 4 to 3.

120 on disrupter alt-fire is a bit too low imo, i think amount of emp power should've beed altered instead. And raged ZEDs looked like a selling point of Abandon All Hope to me, shame its gone.

Parry window of dual Piranha is only 0.289s which is quite short, i think rate scale of animation should be toned down.

Also in Wild West London the cowboy hat on stalker's head doesn't sit properly. Instead it is rotated 90 deg as if they wearing it on their left ear.
 
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I'm not gonna lie this is a change I really really don't like. I don't mind more Fleshpounds than Quarters, but removing the spawn enraged mechanic from Abandon All Hope makes utterly no sense. The entire point of this mode is it's stupidly hectic there's constantly things in your face and zeds which were otherwise push-overs to experienced players like Scrakes are suddenly not willing to wait around while you deliver an M99 round to their brain is what made this mode my and several of my friends my favourite weekly and something we hoped might become an official difficulty.
I really hope you'll consider reverting that change as nerfing the mode intended to be ridiculously difficult is pretty counter intuitive and honestly AAH in it's previous state was one of the few things that got me interested in this game again.
Hi,

I agree on this. Abandon all hope was made easier?
I have manged to finish this weekly both alone and with team. And its not that hard. We just killed Matriarch today as PUB team on Nuked. Just made sure everybody knows they need to move all time as team... and it really pushes everybody to move together as team. It was not that hard. And now its made easier? I think this was a bad decision. The spawn enraged was awesome. Keeps you on the toes all time.

A team with 3 commandos will probably die... But if you got guys that can move fast, and maybe 2 slow runners that can do alot of DPS and try stay follow the guys clearing ahead etc and not stopping then it was very fun.

All about communication. :)
 
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Spawn enraged mechanic removed from all zeds except Quarter Pounds
Thank you for this, that's a step in the right direction. This is good, because it follows the core game principle which postulates that for a player of a game there should exist a narrow path to victory, either through a flawless performance or through mitigation of the incoming damage and all it takes to get there is the player's skill.

The spawnraged fleshpounds don't provide an opportunity for a player to react to them in any meaningful way that would align with the aforementioned principle.

Fleshpounds are specifically designed in such a way that, if enraged, they move much faster than any player so nobody can outrun them and they cover, at least partially, their vulnerable spots, which makes taking them down while enraged a huge problem. Oftentimes this leaves no other choice but to take a hit, but almost all perks aren't suitable for this, except the zerk. Oftentimes this straight up leads to death with no meaningful counterplay possible. That's why spawnrage is a bad design.

It only makes sense that they spawn calm, as whoever designed them knew perfectly well that core game principle, otherwise they wouldn't design the fleshpounds the way they did.

For example, why do fleshpounds have a time rage mechanic? Because this allows the team an opportunity to take them down when they are calm, but if the team didn't manage to do that -- it's on them to get hit, it just means they can't keep up with the spawn.

Why do fleshpounds have a rage animation? Because they expose their heads during it, allowing the team to take them down before they cover their heads when enraged. If the team didn't manage -- it's on them to get hit.

Why do fleshpounds have a damage threshold upon reaching which they rage? To allow the team to perform the takedown in a controlled fashion with concentrated fire and punish the team that shoots the fleshpounds recklessly.

This is some game design finesse that I personally and I know for a fact that many other vets also do appreciate a lot. KF2 is a type of game that has a lot of replayability value and it's often the case that people spend a lot of time in it and this fine fleshpound calm/raged transition mechanic is one of the things that keeps the players in this game -- don't ruin it.

And of course, all these fine details go out the window if the fleshpound is spawned enraged as the only counterplay left here is to get hit, which is deadly for any perk but a zerk.

I also would like to expand against people above who surprisingly don't get anything of what I just described. To put it bluntly these are most likely zerk mains who don't care about the game balance. Please take their opinions with a significant grain of salt.

PS. It would be best if you also eliminated the spawnrage mechanic for both Suicidal (25% chance) and HoE (33% chance) for fleshpounds as well. As well as QuarterPounds as well, to be honest, the only thing that makes QP spawnrage sort of okay is that they 1) have a calm speed way too fast so it doesn't make much difference between raged and calm 2) they don't cover their weak spots 3) they have a low HP.

PPS To address the difficulty concern just increase the MaxMonsters or just be content with the increased number of FPs as you say you convert now some QPs to FPs with higher rate.
 
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Thank you for this, that's a step in the right direction. This is good, because it follows the core game principle which postulates that for a player of a game there should exist a narrow path to victory, either through a flawless performance or through mitigation of the incoming damage and all it takes to get there is the player's skill.

The spawnraged fleshpounds don't provide an opportunity for a player to react to them in any meaningful way that would align with the aforementioned principle.

Fleshpounds are specifically designed in such a way that, if enraged, they move much faster than any player so nobody can outrun them and they cover, at least partially, their vulnerable spots, which makes taking them down while enraged a huge problem. Oftentimes this leaves no other choice but to take a hit, but almost all perks aren't suitable for this, except the zerk. Oftentimes this straight up leads to death with no meaningful counterplay possible. That's why spawnrage is a bad design.

It only makes sense that they spawn calm, as whoever designed them knew perfectly well that core game principle, otherwise they wouldn't design the fleshpounds the way they did.

For example, why do fleshpounds have a time rage mechanic? Because this allows the team an opportunity to take them down when they are calm, but if the team didn't manage to do that -- it's on them to get hit, it just means they can't keep up with the spawn.

Why do fleshpounds have a rage animation? Because they expose their heads during it, allowing the team to take them down before they cover their heads when enraged. If the team didn't manage -- it's on them to get hit.

Why do fleshpounds have a damage threshold upon reaching which they rage? To allow the team to perform the takedown in a controlled fashion with concentrated fire and punish the team that shoots the fleshpounds recklessly.

And of course, all these fine details go out the window if the fleshpound is spawned enraged as the only counterplay left here is to get hit, which is deadly for any perk but a zerk.

I also would like to expand against people above who surprisingly don't get anything of what I just described. To put it bluntly these are most likely zerk mains who don't care about the game balance. Please take their opinions with a significant grain of salt.

PS. It would be best if you also eliminated the spawnrage mechanic for both Suicidal (25% chance) and HoE (33% chance) for fleshpounds as well. As well as QuarterPounds as well, to be honest, the only thing that makes QP spawnrage sort of okay is that they 1) have a calm speed way too fast so it doesn't make much difference between raged and calm 2) they don't cover their weak spots 3) they have a low HP.

PPS To address the difficulty concern just increase the MaxMonsters.
Nah, I'm not a Berserker main, in fact I'm someone who was very supportive of the recent nerfs to berserker and hemoclobber as I honestly felt it was one of the more badly designed perks and weapons.
I'm willing to agree with you partially on this, I did take some issue with the fact that Fleshpounds spawned in an enraged state and I see what you mean with that (Quarter pounds are my least favourite zed because they fly in the face of why Fleshpounds were even a part of the game in the first place). My main issue was that they took the nuclear option with this nerf to the mode as a whole if they had took spawn enraged off of just the fleshpound and supplemented this by having more fleshpounds than quarters appear I would have no problem with this change.
My issue is that no zed is enraged anymore, part of the difficulty of this mode was how easily every zed was procced into a sprint allowing the gap to be closed combined with overwhelming numbers. As for Scrakes, my issue with these is that although a Scrake's primary gameplay purpose revolves around it being able to being disposed of with relative ease if dealt with properly and only becoming a real threat if dealt with improperly, this purpose has become rather moot over KF2's lifespan given the increased amount of weapons with stun, freeze and EMP abilities combined with base game elements like sprint and bash immensely impacting a Scrakes ability to be deadly even when dealt with improperly.
Thus, although it is somewhat against the Scrake's original design philosophy, having them be spawned in pre-raged on a single gamemode turned them into a pressure based zed that is always and immediatley a threat you have to divert attention to. So if anything I'd prefer a compromise where the changes are kept to the Fleshpound but reverted for the other zeds in AAH.
 
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I'd prefer a compromise where the changes are kept to the Fleshpound but reverted for the other zeds in AAH.
While this may be acceptable middle ground as the spawnrage on FPs is like 90% of this issue overall and the rest are minor things, I would still argue that scrakes are totally fine when spawned calm. Their design is to push the team slowly out of the position and coordinate takedown efforts. It's a very nice goosebumps feeling right before one decides to attack it -- will I manage to take it down? Or will it saw me in half? Now one has no choice but to attack, so there's no this go/no-go decision point anymore, just one less little touch, but again, this issue isn't as big as the FP spawnrage.

As for trash/medium zeds, pretty much all of them are enraged when you see them on HoE, and almost all of them are 1-2 headshots, so it doesn't make much difference.

Again, to safely increase the difficulty all one has to do is increase the MaxMonsters which controls the number of max zeds present on the map. Or increase the chances of big zeds to spawn. It can be done without any major repercussions and this increases the difficulty drastically without compromising the fine tuned game balance.
 
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Were the weapon spawns in Netherhold's secret rooms nerfed or removed? In beta 1 they would always spawn a weapon, now it seems like they never do.

Also, there was an issue in beta 1 where those secret room spawns could spawn the Road Redeemer even though I don't have it unlocked, and picking it up would derank my game. But I'm assuming that was fixed along with the content sharing issue for the two new DLC weapons.
 
Thank you for this, that's a step in the right direction. This is good, because it follows the core game principle which postulates that for a player of a game there should exist a narrow path to victory, either through a flawless performance or through mitigation of the incoming damage and all it takes to get there is the player's skill.

The spawnraged fleshpounds don't provide an opportunity for a player to react to them in any meaningful way that would align with the aforementioned principle.

Fleshpounds are specifically designed in such a way that, if enraged, they move much faster than any player so nobody can outrun them and they cover, at least partially, their vulnerable spots, which makes taking them down while enraged a huge problem. Oftentimes this leaves no other choice but to take a hit, but almost all perks aren't suitable for this, except the zerk. Oftentimes this straight up leads to death with no meaningful counterplay possible. That's why spawnrage is a bad design.
I agree with this sentiment from a design standpoint, but disagree with it from a difficulty standpoint. In Hell on Earth your team must take the time before a fleshpound is raged & sprinting to kill it, else you take massive damage or the death of a teammate.

In Abandon All Hope, I like to think of it more like the safety net is removed, whereas instead your team must always deal with the worst possible outcome they'd experience in HoE, by which a fleshpound is raged and sprinting with full health. Again, I agree from a design standpoint (dealing with a fleshpound before it's raged is a core design choice), but disagree from a difficulty standpoint (no spawnrage essentially makes dealing with fleshpounds as easy/the same experience as HoE).
 
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  • Spawn enraged mechanic removed from all zeds except Quarter Pounds
This kills it for me and was my favorite part of the weekly. Having everything enrages was so much fun.
 
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The problem is that spawnraged FPs does not increase difficulty the same for everyone, it fucks certain classes particularly unfairly and leaves the best ones unaffected.

Zerk, medic, surv can tank a FP hit without much trouble and it turns out, these classes are already the strongest ones, so they will be even stronger when you introduce a mechanism that barely affects them. In contrast, other classes like sharpshooter and demo absolutely need to kill the FP before it rages or they're screwed, SS is by far the most affected because his grenades/headshots become close to useless against raged QFPs/FPs, and SS is already in a bad spot in terms of risk/reward.

If you want to make the game difficult, I'm totally OK for spawning raged stuff (especially scrakes) but the game should be made difficult while keeping kiting-based classes dominance in mind...

Why not leave FPs unraged, but more of them spawn, and the longer they charge, the faster they move and the more damage they do, so fast-moving classes can no longer outrun & tank them forever?

Why not try to increase MaxMonsters and rework the spawn system to be a bit less predictable, so we reward aim and teamplay rather than spawn exploits?

Would be great to take inspiration from CD servers, I think they have done it the right way:
- Maxmonsters typically around 48
- More ammo / faster ammo box spawn
- No QPs, but easily 3x-4x more FPs and scrakes then regular HoE (but same health and speed)
- A few scrakes/FPs spawn on wave 1
- Trash and scrakes move faster
- Boss wave has 2 bosses at the same time (and even in this mode Abom remains a joke)
- Zed HP does not decrease after player deaths, if your team dies, you die
 
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Hello TWI or saber. This animation of corrupter carbine still didnt fixed. Its in scope bolt animation. As well as famas full empty reload. Bolt still goes by itself. Please fix these animations. its really noticeable in slow motion

20210922215338_1.jpg20210922215208_1.jpg
 
The problem is that spawnraged FPs does not increase difficulty the same for everyone, it fucks certain classes particularly unfairly and leaves the best ones unaffected.

Zerk, medic, surv can tank a FP hit without much trouble and it turns out, these classes are already the strongest ones, so they will be even stronger when you introduce a mechanism that barely affects them. In contrast, other classes like sharpshooter and demo absolutely need to kill the FP before it rages or they're screwed, SS is by far the most affected because his grenades/headshots become close to useless against raged QFPs/FPs, and SS is already in a bad spot in terms of risk/reward.

If you want to make the game difficult, I'm totally OK for spawning raged stuff (especially scrakes) but the game should be made difficult while keeping kiting-based classes dominance in mind...

Why not leave FPs unraged, but more of them spawn, and the longer they charge, the faster they move and the more damage they do, so fast-moving classes can no longer outrun & tank them forever?

Why not try to increase MaxMonsters and rework the spawn system to be a bit less predictable, so we reward aim and teamplay rather than spawn exploits?

Would be great to take inspiration from CD servers, I think they have done it the right way:
- Maxmonsters typically around 48
- More ammo / faster ammo box spawn
- No QPs, but easily 3x-4x more FPs and scrakes then regular HoE (but same health and speed)
- A few scrakes/FPs spawn on wave 1
- Trash and scrakes move faster
- Boss wave has 2 bosses at the same time (and even in this mode Abom remains a joke)
- Zed HP does not decrease after player deaths, if your team dies, you die
I agree with you with some extra tweaks:

✓ Maxmonsters typically around 42-48.
- The amount of ammo should be as in the current A.A.H. If they increase the number of ammo, it may broke the challenge.
- QPs are good and fun, why dou you want to get removed it?
✓ A few scrakes spawnraged /FPs (unraged) spawn on wave 1
✓ Trash move faster and scrake should always be raged (it is indisputably fun in A.A.H. :love:) and buffed extra speed than Beta 2.
- We don't need "Boss wave has 2 bosses at the same time". Devs should balance bosses instead of this.
✓ Abomination is still very easy (although it has 1.75xHP), I wonder why it did't get buffed until this time. (and even in this mode Abom remains a joke)
✓ "Zed HP does not decrease after player deaths, if your team dies, you die."

In addition to all this my extra suggestions are:

✓ Decrease Hans Volter & Matriarch HP buffs from 1.75 to 1.50. They are already huge amount of HP. Other bosses with 1.75 are ok.
✓ Decrease boss speed buff from %25 to %10-15. It kills slow perks. We can't get away from the boss and it always catches us and kills us into 1st minute. This makes it mandatory to choose fast perks (like berserker, medic, survivalist). Otherwise, demolitionist, commando, firebug, sharpshooter will be useless.
✓ Husk should be able to suicide under %30-40HP instead of %15HP. Even if you die, it is very fun :)

Most important of all, Tripware please make Abandon All Hope a new difficulty for veterans as 5th. A lot of players are bored with searching "Controlled Difficulty" in the server.
 
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I agree with you with some extra tweaks:

✓ Maxmonsters typically around 42-48.

Or at least having MaxMonsters not scale down on player death would be nice. Currently if you play on a 6p server and only 1 player is alive, only 16 zeds can spawn which is the same as solo. It makes no sense. The game should never be easier when you let your teammates die.

[...]
✓ Decrease boss speed buff from %25 to %10-15. It kills slow perks. We can't get away from the boss and it always catches us and kills us into 1st minute. This makes it mandatory to choose fast perks (like berserker, medic, survivalist). Otherwise, demolitionist, commando, firebug, sharpshooter will be useless.
On the other hand this speed bonus is also needed for bosses to catch medic/gunslinger...

I don't have much hope that bosses will ever be balanced in this game. Even if we consider Matriarch and Hans (the only bosses that are not jokes), fundamentally they have been designed around one-shots and the only way to win against them is to abuse pathfinding/speed bonuses. They are both easy to cheese and hard to beat without cheese (ie. any class that has no resistance/speed bonuses).

So rather than waiting for TWI to balance 5 different bosses, which is more than idealistic seeing Abom's current state has been the same for years, I'd rather see them try somethign new, 2 bosses would give AAH a very good advertising, and the upside is, it's already in the engine, so very little work required. This likely means the boss wave will be extremely hard, but it's supposed to be the hardest wave of the hardest mode.
 
Guys, many of you are comparing "abandon all hope" to HoE and "core game mech"... The point of weeklies is to make it different and some of the modes "harder". Having everything spawned "raged" and ready to rape you dead as fast as possible is supposed to make the team work different than normal HoE. I think it was perfect the way it was when everything was enraged. If you like the non enraged FP and SC and the planning stage for when to attack them etc better... then just go normal HoE. Weaker classes: Well, sometimes for some maps and modes its better to choose another class... some maps its much easier with a "fast runner" other maps with "more firepower and slow runner". Its about adapting and using the best perk for the job. Now this mode will be almost just like normal HoE, because some want it easier? Or more like normal? Weeklies are not supposed to be normal. TWI went out of the box in beta 1. And it was very fun! And success rate for this mode should be down to the "1%". It makes it more satisfying to beat! :)
 
Guys, many of you are comparing "abandon all hope" to HoE and "core game mech"... The point of weeklies is to make it different and some of the modes "harder". Having everything spawned "raged" and ready to rape you dead as fast as possible is supposed to make the team work different than normal HoE. I think it was perfect the way it was when everything was enraged. If you like the non enraged FP and SC and the planning stage for when to attack them etc better... then just go normal HoE. Weaker classes: Well, sometimes for some maps and modes its better to choose another class... some maps its much easier with a "fast runner" other maps with "more firepower and slow runner". Its about adapting and using the best perk for the job. Now this mode will be almost just like normal HoE, because some want it easier? Or more like normal? Weeklies are not supposed to be normal. TWI went out of the box in beta 1. And it was very fun! And success rate for this mode should be down to the "1%". It makes it more satisfying to beat! :)
Nobody here suggested this mode to be easier. Have you read the arguments of the people you're mentioning? I've literally suggested 6 different ways to increase difficulty to counteract FP rage.

Having everything spawned "raged" and ready to rape you dead as fast as possible is supposed to make the team work different than normal HoE.​
Except it does not, that's why we're discussing it. It only makes the game harder for those slow perks that are vulnerable to FPs, for the others, it doesn't make it harder, but it degrades the gameplay quality because you'll now have to rely even more on spamming bodyshots and exploit spawn mechanisms than regular HoE.


some maps its much easier with a "fast runner" other maps with "more firepower and slow runner".​
You have a very idealistic view of this game's balance, unfortunately in the current state, the community has figured out that fast runner classes are hands down the best in the game on any map. In particular, ask anyone here who the best perks are and 90% will tell you medic and gunslinger.


Let's illustrate this "slow vs fast" comparison with what is imo the best example...

Gunslinger:
+ fast perk (20%)
+ best weapon in the game (T5 deagles)
+ benefits from headshots, but bodyshots still deal tons of damage

Sharpshooter:
- slow perk (10% faster but needs to crouch)
+ higher theoretical damage with headshots
+ best nade in the game (freeze)
+ can start zed time with headshots

As said, the community has already figured out that sharpshooter is a worse gunslinger in 90% cases.
But maybe in AAH things will change? right?

Well if you add spawnraged FPs, suddenly:
- raged FPs cannot be frozen
- raged FPs become much harder to headshot

Does that benefit more the gunslinger or the sharpshooter in your opinion?
 
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People, if you insist on spawnrage you'll get another "endless", which was supposed to be harder than HoE. Guess what, they've made it so gimmicky hard, that nobody plays it anymore. Around me there are 270 HoE servers in survival mode and only 69 in endless.

Why nobody wants to play it anymore? Because it feels cheap and unfair. You can get a long streak in Endless, but your luck depends on primarily 2 things -- are you getting the "boom" wave anytime soon? Or are you getting a "poundemonium" wave and you aren't a zerk with the eviscerator or a medic with a bat? In the end, it's a game mode designed around just 1 build -- a zerk with an eviscerator or a medic with a bat. I swear, there were cases when I joined a late stage HoE Endless and there were more than half of the team eviscerator zerks -- they don't want a cheap death for themselves and the special waves are such that nobody can tell what's next and that could very well be either boom or poundemonium.

No wonder people don't enjoy playing it as much as survival -- because it's less balanced!

Guess what mode is even less balanced to the point that literally nobody plays it anymore? You want AAH to become next such mode? Because that's what you are asking here.
 
Great primer, I subscribe to that, a few minor notes though.

+ best nade in the game (freeze)

Actually, SWAT grenades are better:

- they incapacitate FPs for a longer time (+0.55s);
- they kill trash instead of freezing it;
- they have larger area of effect;
- they don't hurt the player.

Well if you add spawnraged FPs, suddenly:
- raged FPs cannot be frozen
- raged FPs become much harder to headshot

In addition to that, because of having to shoot from a crouched position, the partial cover of the head with the grinders plays a bigger role, to a point one just can't shoot at the head without hitting the grinders instead from the crouched position at mid range and closer and have to stand up thus losing the left lvl 10 skill damage advantage.
 
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