Killing Floor 2 feels so soulless
- Thread starter K0bra
- Start date
If grime and decay is what ppl want then I cant see it being that much of a problem to add!
Yet Im not expert on the engine they are using. Maybe they can "add" it into the existing maps or at the very least, to new maps (those from the competitions aside).
Though if its a limitation of the engine then Im afraid theres youre answer - at least to why those are not included.
And these stop it from being soulful?
Agree with the lost "soul" of KF1
Something contibuted to make the game grime in KF1 is the old movie texture, their is an option though in KF2 but it has no real effect (I set the effect to maximum).
The sound also was sinister, music, voices, atmosphere... black humour...
Indeed their is more blood and guts, but curiously that does not make the whole thing frightening. KF2 is too clean, despite all the blood spread around.
Maps in KF1 were bigger in size and variety between them, with an exlusive design and personality.
Weapons had a much powerfull feelings, gave much satisfaction by killing more zeds at once (all perks) without having a easier game at the same time, curiously.
I guess TWI could make small changes to bring this back (though it looks to take much time to make small changes, maybe cause of a really complex engine?!), if they want to bring the soul of KF1. IF...
Something contibuted to make the game grime in KF1 is the old movie texture, their is an option though in KF2 but it has no real effect (I set the effect to maximum).
The sound also was sinister, music, voices, atmosphere... black humour...
Indeed their is more blood and guts, but curiously that does not make the whole thing frightening. KF2 is too clean, despite all the blood spread around.
Maps in KF1 were bigger in size and variety between them, with an exlusive design and personality.
Weapons had a much powerfull feelings, gave much satisfaction by killing more zeds at once (all perks) without having a easier game at the same time, curiously.
I guess TWI could make small changes to bring this back (though it looks to take much time to make small changes, maybe cause of a really complex engine?!), if they want to bring the soul of KF1. IF...
Zynthetic's music played a huge part in setting up KF's atmosphere. In KF2 it's buried beneath a ton of "different" music.
Games don't have souls, it's all what attracts customers and what doesn't. Souls and other emotional stuff is what marketers use to lure people by playing with their emotions ofcourse. Maybe TWI can't hold up to the KF UT mod's legacy. Is it really the same people who made KF1 making KF2 or at least updating it with a hotfix every 2 months? Hurry up and redeem yourselves with KF3 already.
Games don't have souls, it's all what attracts customers and what doesn't. Souls and other emotional stuff is what marketers use to lure people by playing with their emotions ofcourse. Maybe TWI can't hold up to the KF UT mod's legacy. Is it really the same people who made KF1 making KF2 or at least updating it with a hotfix every 2 months? Hurry up and redeem yourselves with KF3 already.
I think you put it perfectly. Specifically the people that wanted something completely new vs the people who wanted Killing Floor version 2.0.
I think that is where a lot of this clash in the forums and in the base is stemming around. A lot of people really did just want Killing Floor Version 2.0 and others wanted (or were merely okay with) Killing Floor 2: Black Ops by Treyarch.
A lot of people just wanted a new Killing Floor with some new perks, some new weapons, some new enemies, some new maps, and some better graphics. We basically just wanted an expansion pack on a new engine. I think that is why there is a lot of feeling of betrayal and people so unhappy with the game. And i am one of them. If it continues down this path i don't think it will be fair to call Killing Floor 2 so much a sequel as it is a reboot.
I find myself comparing Killing Floor to so many other games that got sequels. Lets says Saints Row, Command and Conquer, StarCraft, and CounterStrike. When i went from Saints Row 3 to 4, CC Red Alert 2 to 3, CC Tiberium Sun to Tiberium Wars, StarCraft 1 to 2, CSS to CSGO, for all of those games i didn't feel like i left the universe, i could tell where i was, sure it was different, the graphics were severely changed in some cases, a lot of new gameplay was added, new units, new strategies, but i knew what game i was in. And i think that is where Killing Floor 2 is losing me, i don't feel like i'm playing Killing Floor anymore. I feel like i am playing Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Killing Floor Edition.
Part of what drew me into Killing Floor was its fun, its humor, its atmosphere. I still remember a line my buddy said to me our first time he showed me the game. The trader said one of her veiled sexual comments and he remarked, "Oh yeah, that's the trader, she flirts with you all the time." and it got a laugh out of me. Killing Floor 2 we have a 3D printer and that charm is instantly lost. I am not a fan of the average FPS, i haven't bought a Call of Duty since MW2. For me Killing Floor has lost what separated it from other FPS games and brought it into my circle of games that stay permanently installed on my computer.
I really think what we are going to see happen is the Devs will probably stay on the path to making Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Killing Floor Edition, and that game will be what makes it to launch. But once that is launched i believe we will see a fan movement back towards KF1 via mods, i imagine there will be a big push to an overhall mod that makes KF2 more KF1-esque. I hope that doesn't happen and the Devs will somehow inject that life of KF1 into KF2 but as the months roll by i'm losing hope in that.
Killing Floor 2 lacks soul because Tripwire is attempting to make this game as mainstream as possible with all the mainstream sensibility, bells, and whistles.
Notice the lack of cussing, notice the lack of inside jokes, notice the incredibly flat and boring balance of perks.
Notice the lack of cussing, notice the lack of inside jokes, notice the incredibly flat and boring balance of perks.
"Sh!t on a stick it's got me!"
"Enough to ventilate a sh!tload of enemies"
"Lemme go ya ba$tard!"
Those are three that I just pulled out of quick memory. Care to retract that statement? Ana swears in Le Baguette language, so you're probably missing a lot of hers, and Tom uses more uh...antique swears such as wretch and dastard. Tame by our standards. Each character has 25 minutes of dialogue, compared to KF1's seven minutes.
Alright, so this thread is trying to answer the question, "How do we give KF2 the magic that made KF1 so memorable?" I'm all ears here, but the usage of vague terms and feels is going to get us nowhere. Let's be specific.
Some players don't like the direction and the theme of the game, as it departs from the original.
This is Resident Evil 4 (Biohazard for you non burgers) all over again. Capcom completely redid the franchise after it had become so stale and repetitive, and the purists threw an almighty fit that persists to this day because it was so vastly different. I was an avid fan of Resident Evil, and initially, was taken aback by the change. But once I got my hands on it I was in love. Seriously, I blew off classes for a week to be with my new soul mate.
This is similar to what has happened to KF2. The game's direction and theme are departing from the original, and so many vets and purists are simply disgusted by it. This aspect of the game is related to the vision of the devs, not you, so it's not going to change, so best appreciate it for what it is.
Voices and acting
Here is where I'm with the rest of the thread. Something about Wilson's lines from KF1 were simply perfect. They cannot be replicated. Simply cannot. I've accepted that.
In regards to zed lines: not done. The fleshpound will be (should be) getting his voice back first. TWI was going to release it with the GS, but they felt they were incomplete, and held them back. I want zed lines back too; be patient. Voices and dialogue take up a lot of data and can be expensive if you're shooting for quality.
Tone and humor
The game has taken a much more serious tone with sci-fi settings that are glazed with a horror aspect. KF1 was, as many say, a B-movie from the 80's. I hate having to repeat myself yet again, but that tone was what the devs worked with within the confines of the mod. Again, KF2 is a completely different game being made by more people, so of course the tone is going to be different. I fail to see how it is a mark against the game as a whole.
Humor is a delicate subject, but I'm going to come out and be blunt. This game had potential for some hilarious international banter between the characters, but TWI chose to not go that path. I understand why. Good humor has to be a little degrading, to the audience as well as the comedian. Applied with a light touch, you can make some good humor that everyone enjoys and doesn't cross into the realm of tumblr-er, offensiveness. I consider the move to dodge around this type of humor a move that goes counter to the game as a whole:
-Listening to a back and forth between Alberts and Foster about Scottish independence, eventually being shut down by Briar telling them all to stuff it when the new wave starts
-Ana calling for a retreat (the much needed Run! voice command), and the Americans accusing her of Frenching out
-Jaeger requesting dosh and Foster quipping that he should just go pillage another monastery or something
I was hoping for stuff like the above, since you get a little bit of it in KF1 (wayne roony etc.). Again, humor like that has to be handled carefully, lest we awaken the pitchfork mob from Twitter. Have you ever had people say mean things to you on Twitter? It hurt my feelings.
Woof, I spent too much time on this. Tl;DR is the game is going to be different from KF1, best accept that. There is always room for improvement, but simply wanting to be just like KF1 is not the way to go about it.
I loved using the dwarf axe in KF1. Whenever you killed something with a light attack its body became a ragdoll and just went flying. It was great.
Its nice how some people qualify quite every critism and hang up on some terms(soul) that a not native english speaker(me) spoke out.
This will change nothing when handled it this way.
This game has obvisiouly problems and a lack of "soul".Its EA so lets give feedback that they can change that and stop talking everything good,okay,perfect,"there is no problem".
This will change nothing when handled it this way.
This game has obvisiouly problems and a lack of "soul".Its EA so lets give feedback that they can change that and stop talking everything good,okay,perfect,"there is no problem".
I'm pretty sure you're not the only non native English speaker in this board. You presented an argument. People are responding to you based on what you said. That's all we can do.
(obviously some people agree with you so this isn't a non native semantic techinicality)
And what? Change nothing? Obviously problems? Everyone here has given some sort of feedback. But it doesn't mean that a problem for one person is the same problem for another. And it's fine for a person to say so.
Thats right but you have to agree that alot times in diffrent games forums fanboys dont accept any critique and talk and or qualify evertyhing ok and perfect.This attitude change nothing.Then the game will only get content updates and the core will stay completely untouched and alot of original Killing Floor 1 lovers cant really enjoy the game and will never be happy with it.Then they have to wait on a Killing Floor 3 to get a mature game.
Like you can see and i read last days in some diffrent forums about KF2 im not alone with my points.Alot people have that feeling about the game.A change would help alot.Killing Floor was so popular and loved because of atmosphere,humor,gameplay and the challenge.Some of this is looks like is lost in development of the second title.Call it Scifi Gore Floor but not Killing Floor.
Killing Floor felt by its release atmosphere wise like the older nasty dirty brother from Left 4 Dead.At the moment the atmosphere from Left 4 Dead (that has no real horror inside) is a tone darker then KF2.(Thats subjective feeling).I still dont understand why Tripwire forgot while development after doing this nice gore system the morbid horror atmosphere.
Like alot people said its to clean and feels like a a modern US shooter with alot of Gore.
When you are an older player this example feeling wise respresent more what i mean :
Killing Floor 1 = Quake 3 Arena
Killing Floor 2 = Unreal Tournament
Have a nice day
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Thats right but you have to agree that alot times in diffrent games forums fanboys dont accept any critique and talk and or qualify evertyhing ok and perfect.This attitude change nothing.Then the game will only get content updates and the core will stay completely untouched and alot of original Killing Floor 1 lovers cant really enjoy the game and will never be happy with it.Then they have to wait on a Killing Floor 3 to get a mature game.
Like you can see and i read last days in some diffrent forums about KF2 im not alone with my points.Alot people have that feeling about the game.A change would help alot.Killing Floor was so popular and loved because of atmosphere,humor,gameplay and the challenge.Some of this is looks like is lost in development of the second title.Call it Scifi Gore Floor but not Killing Floor.
I still dont understand why Tripwire forgot while development after doing this nice gore system the morbid horror atmosphere.
Like alot people said its to clean and feels like a a modern US shooter with alot of Gore.
When you are an older player this example feeling wise respresent more what i mean :
Killing Floor 1 = Quake 3 Arena
Killing Floor 2 = Unreal Tournament
Have a nice day
So......in the end and what I will say to you: Hold dat ****.
Entirely new game. KF1 lovers will have to stick with their first game. I dont see much of a problem with the second. Could use more humor though.
I have no problem with improving a game, i do have a problem with a game not being fun! You want to talk about the undefined "soul" of the game. The soul that is missing is the "I'm about to die in a Zombie Apocalypse but i'm going to do it with my drinking buddies" soul. And really that is how i play Killing Floor, both 1 and 2, with my drinking buddies.
To this day me and my friends talk about how we ran around and had fun on these games, not how we got 4300 headshots on HOE or unlocked all perks, the fact we had fun. And KF2 has lost that fun and therefore its soul.
Let's do a quick run down of stuff i just found fun or entertaining from KF1: Killing the Patriarch with only crossbows for the Merry Men Achievement, Killing the Patriarch with a Law Rock for Law that broke the camel's back achievement, Kill a Siren with an undetonated Law rocket for the Not So Silent Night achievement, fighting off ridiculous versions of the ZEDs whether they be Ginger Bead Men, Clowns, Elves, Nut Crackers, or Santa Claus! You would find signs on the wall like "All accidents are your own fault" or playing Santa's Layer and finding an Elf body hanging out of the wall with candy canes shoved in his butt. Playing as a guy in a Terminator Chicken outfit! My favorite character's description about how he put on his Grandfather's Soviet uniform and went on drunken ramblings at the local pub. How about using the recoil to blow yourself backwards in moon gravity and killing some ZEDs using a giant axe you pulled out like the sword in the stone? How about going to the carnival and playing some of the games in between rounds? Throwing out some money and watching a robotic husk do a dance to some funky music?
Now before you try to tear that all apart saying alot of it was all DLC and addons that came years after the original game. How much of this could you see in this "serious" Killing Floor 2? Any of it? The fun aspect of Killing Floor 1 was always there, just look at the dialogue. You are so happy about these 21 minutes vs the 7 minutes from KF1, go to youtube and load both up and just listen. Killing Floor 1 sounds like a conversation with a group of friends, Killing Floor 2 sounds like a conversation between a group of coworkers in an office. And i know we don't have ZED dialogue yet in game, but do you really think they are going to add in stuff like the Scrake's "I like Trousers" or the Flesh Pound's "Level of Aggression: 11", or the Stalker's "Come on, Give us a kiss" to this "serious" game?
If i gave each game a persona Killing Floor 1 would be a British chap at the pub with some mutton chops wearing a bowler hat having a pint with his buddies. Killing Floor 2 would be the monotone bank teller with her hair in a bun that wears the sharp pointed glasses that have a chain of beads off each side.
I was a big fan of Command and Conquer, i loved both the Tiberium timeline and the Red Alert series, Generals too. You know why? They were all fun, they were completely different from each other besides the fact they were RTS games, but they were still fun and i loved them all. Killing Floor 2 is not fun to me. I have played games with seriously broken mechanics, horrible game crashing bugs, early access, backwater mods, you name it, i have done it. And people are willing to put up with a lot if they find a game fun, but part of what made Killing Floor fun for me was its campy, drinking at the pub with friends attitude, and that is gone, and the game is no longer fun. Thats why i have taken to calling it Killing Floor: Black OPs or Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Killing Floor Edition. Hell, even Call of Duty doesn't take itself as serious as Killing Floor 2 when it comes to Zombies. Nazi Zombies, Alien artifacts, playing as JFK and Nixon.
And for the Dev's vision? Like they are some god on high who's decision i have to respect and kiss their feet? I paid my money same as you and i'm here to tell them the game sucks and i don't respect their vision.
Whether KF2 is the same, or meant to be the same as the original is beside the point. If you take KF2 as is - forgoing any connection between this game and the original - it's a game with a lot of potential. That potential isn't going to collapse in on itself just because some people expressed both subjective and objective criticisms about the game.
The more criticism the game receives, and the more constructive that criticism is - assuming the developers are aware which feedback is the most valuable and helpful - the better the game's going to get.
The more criticism the game receives, and the more constructive that criticism is - assuming the developers are aware which feedback is the most valuable and helpful - the better the game's going to get.
Fair point. Though personally it feels that TW are focusing on the gameplay first. Maybe they feel they can add the "spice to substance" later on!?
Totally agree, and I'll try to tell why:
1) I loved how, in the first game, there were dismembered bodies everywhere and signs of disaster and death all around...blood and corpses everywhere...which are totally missing in KF2
2) perks had specific roles...you had to rely on each others, while now, even in the higher difficulties, people dont even notice what other player are playng...and I honestly dont care if my teamates are gunslinger or commando, for example
3) zeds...they were scary as hell, expecially Scrakes and FPs, which now are huge bullet sponges with grinning mouths and tons of muscles
4) KF1 was way harder and required much more tachtics...when you saw a FP, all the team knew what to do, run and shot together with the proper perks...now everyone just tanks and shoots as hell
5) last but not least, I don't know what it is, but the first game had scarier maps...places like frightyard and forest still scare me out
oh and I forget...many useless things...like clots grabbing you and zed spawning sounds
1) I loved how, in the first game, there were dismembered bodies everywhere and signs of disaster and death all around...blood and corpses everywhere...which are totally missing in KF2
2) perks had specific roles...you had to rely on each others, while now, even in the higher difficulties, people dont even notice what other player are playng...and I honestly dont care if my teamates are gunslinger or commando, for example
3) zeds...they were scary as hell, expecially Scrakes and FPs, which now are huge bullet sponges with grinning mouths and tons of muscles
4) KF1 was way harder and required much more tachtics...when you saw a FP, all the team knew what to do, run and shot together with the proper perks...now everyone just tanks and shoots as hell
5) last but not least, I don't know what it is, but the first game had scarier maps...places like frightyard and forest still scare me out
oh and I forget...many useless things...like clots grabbing you and zed spawning sounds
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