Kill Death Ratio and other stats

[O'Shannon]

i am perfectly fine with K/D shown on the Scoreboard.

played couple of matches with K/D on Scoreboard in RO:OST by now (Buddy of mine made a Gametyp where he change the scoreboard to display K/D) and i found out that the average K/D of the teams reflect the teams performance pretty accurate. when we performed weak and couldn't keep the opponent out of capzones (lots of trouble in caps, lost cap, lost rounds etc.) the average K/D of my team was negative.And when we performed good and could keep the capzones clean most of the time K/Ds were positive.

on the subject behavior of public players to towards K/D:
[Trollmode]
could be just me but people *****ing about too low suppression effect are the same that are against K/D in scoreboard. Camping and avoid being shot for K/D reason is in some sort Suppression effect, isn't it?
so just what you want
[/Trollmode]

 

[Walwolf]

It can easily be ignored - and likely turned off, or modded out for those who do not want it.

I don't think having K/D ratio's and so forth encourage people to play differently. Usually the server and the people you are playing with dictate that.

I totally understand the realism argument - and this is a realism game - but we cannot forget the "game" part.

 

[PUTZ]

Don't want to see it, don't hit F1.

(pretty simple imo)

 

[Zetsumei]

i am perfectly fine with K/D shown on the Scoreboard.

played couple of matches with K/D on Scoreboard in RO:OST by now (Buddy of mine made a Gametyp where he change the scoreboard to display K/D) and i found out that the average K/D of the teams reflect the teams performance pretty accurate.

Schrecken's scoreboard shows quantitative info in the scoreboard it's not a pure K/D ratio. Since everybody plays for an equal time pretty much in clan matches, the ratio gives an indication of how quickly you are killing people.

A good example is for instance this screenshot from a match with me in it vs fullmj. http://i52.tinypic.com/x43ux5.jpg or this one http://i56.tinypic.com/2h4g8qw.jpg

By far I have the best kill/death ratio, this is not because i played the best and was the biggest asset to me team. Miller and Kinglol are much better and more important players than me. While looking only at the kill/death ratio won't show that info.

Sure I had a 6:1 K/D ratio and Miller a 3:1 K/D ratio but as miller killed 3 times as many players in the same time of play as me, made him a much more important player than I am. While from the K/D ratio you would expect me to be twice as good as him. Which wasn't the case at all. Which is why I think its crucial to display a quantitative amount of kills like Kills/Hour as well.

I'm a defensive player, and I'm being used in defensive positions. This allows me nearly always to rank up very high K/D ratios. While players with a worse K/D ratio but with more kills in the duration of match, are generally much more important for breakthroughs that create holes for the team to win.

You need people playing defensive and people playing aggressive in matches. And if there are only K/D ratios you will end with nearly everybody playing as defensive as I do.

 

[Schreq]

In the end what matters is that a team won (especially in a campaign). Not that Skill-Obsessed-Clanner pulled a 10:1 K/D and 73 K/H while hip-spamming his SVT.

Your Skill-Obsessed-Clanner made 10 kills in 8 minutes. Not so good I'd say. But probably that was because he was spamming his svt instead of hitting with his hipshots on purpose, not by luck.

 

[Floyd]

....
I agree 100% with Floyd that server owners should be able to mutate or mod the scoreboard at the end of a round to show the stats they deem most important...but also a player should be able to see their total stats like we saw in the video, regardless of the server's settings.
...

But this isn't really what I mean at all.

I'm not asking for a way to mutate or mod the scoreboard at the end of a round. I'm just asking for access to a datastream so that stats can be parsed off-line (or off-server) and results shown on the owner's website.

 

[Private Who?]

But this isn't really what I mean at all.

I'm not asking for a way to mutate or mod the scoreboard at the end of a round. I'm just asking for access to a datastream so that stats can be parsed off-line (or off-server) and results shown on the owner's website.

Oh ok I get ya! Yeah that'd be a cool feature for sure! And I'm pretty sure you would NOT see KDR very much in that case.

 

[O'Shannon]

[...]
By far I have the best kill/death ratio, this is not because i played the best and was the biggest asset to me team. Miller and Kinglol are much better and more important players than me. While looking only at the kill/death ratio won't show that info.

Sure I had a 6:1 K/D ratio and Miller a 3:1 K/D ratio but as miller killed 3 times as many players in the same time of play as me, made him a much more important player than I am. While from the K/D ratio you would expect me to be twice as good as him. Which wasn't the case at all. Which is why I think its crucial to display a quantitative amount of kills like Kills/Hour as well.
[...]

Common sense... Player A with 48/17 of cause helped his team much more that Player B with 17/3.

looking at your 2nd screens you can read a lot. miller for example was present in the cap: Score=104, Kills=44, Death=12
so 104-44=60 points by capping 6 time (or 5 times with resupplying but judging by his death=12 he was in the "front line" so 6 caps sound reasonable)
i look at his class SMG -> He was up front and clearing cap, sure died some time but still was doing his job good.
when i look at you i see 20/2, thinking good K/D, looking at the Score=30 well shows me you haven't been in capping often. Looking at Class=MG shows me why your score is low, since MG isn't a capture whore class like SMG or Semi that perfectly fine. you did your job as mg by killing people trying to reach a capzone or shooting people out off the capzone. either way your got killed only 2 times which shows you did your job good as well.

What i am trying to say is: K/D ratio isn't the only thing that determines whether a player is performing good or bad but it sure is needed in combination with the other informations on the Scoreboard to judge if a player does his job right and if hes good at what he is doing. and thats why i think K/D should be an the scoreboard.

As long as total numbers are displayed like 48/17 and not like 2.8 i don't see a real need for additional kills/hour. Most people play at least 2-3 Rounds and full rounds(full map durations) anyway I'd guess. so, comparing two player by all Scoreboard infos gives good picture of said players performances. sure, thats not ALWAYS the case but for the most part is it.

 

[Zetsumei]

As long as total numbers are displayed like 48/17 and not like 2.8 i don't see a real need for additional kills/hour. Most people play at least 2-3 Rounds and full rounds(full map durations) anyway I'd guess. so, comparing two player by all Scoreboard infos gives good picture of said players performances. sure, thats not ALWAYS the case but for the most part is it.

I showed that screen shot of the match as an example as you could derive from the information in there quite well what people somewhat did. If you only saw a 10 K/D for me and 4 K/D for miller you wouldn't be able to find out information.

The thing is, that displaying it like 48/17 and not 2.8 is exactly what I'm talking about, aka adding a quantification to the number. You can see that 48/17 is bigger than say 10/1. If you look at the video from GDC you see that the K/D ratio is displayed like 2.8 and that is my entire issue.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

And my suggestion takes it one step further to make the division by time in the numbers. So that the score of someone that has been playing for 6 rounds can be somewhat compared to someone that has been playing for 2 rounds (together with someone's total playing time).

so you end up seeing the following:

• Player one has been playing for 1 hour and made 100 kills and died 20 times. His displayed killing score will be 100/20
  
• Player two has been playing for 30 minutes and made 50 kills and died 10 times, his killing score will then be 100/20 as well and not 50/10.

Allowing you to compare the result of player two, with player one even though they haven't played for the same amount of time. Looking at someone his class and team play score allows you then to somewhat draw a conclusion like you made yours above.

I've taken notice a couple of games towards the players and actually about half of the people in a server join around half way in the game. So being in the top half of the game means more likely that you simply were in the server from the beginning of the map change rather than that you're in the top 50% in performance. Which is why I want that division by time. In competitive matches that isn't of importance as people pretty much play full rounds, and the scores reset at the end of a round.

 

[hockeywarrior]

Why is there so much crazy hatred towards K/D ratios? You know there are people out there, like myself, that find K/D ratios interesting without feeling like I NEED to have a good one. I like the stats system, not because I'm an uber hardcore l337 player that wants to be at the top of the leader boards, but because they can be interesting to look over.

In other words, I see player stats as something that is there for the competitive players to be fascinated with and something that everyone else can choose to ignore if they want to.

 

[O'Shannon]

Kill/Death Ratio: 14.00 in the Combat history is unnecessary




Scoreboard i would like to see:

Player______|__Class__|__K/D__|__Teamsc.__|__Totalsc.__|__Time*__|__Ping

Heinz__________MG______44/12________220_________264_____15min ____43_
Ramm__________SL______25/20________235_________260_____20min ____38_
OShannon______E.Rifle____4/4__________50__________54______5min ____24_

*Time player is on the server

 

[LJFHutch]

I want a "stats displayed as "N/A"" option in the menu.

Unfortunately stats brings the worst out of online players.

Pretty much, brings out the competitive bs in just about everyone.

 

[REZ]

Stats don't really mean jack and are just there for e-peen enlargement; bragging etc.

A guy could be having a terrible game, accidental tk's, very few kills... but in the crucial moment he lands the grenade that kills three enemies which allows his team to cap the final zone thus avoiding the loss. That guy right there is the most valuable player for the round regardless of what the stats say. There are many situations where the most unlikely player does some small thing at the right time and it has a huge effect on the round. Stats can't ever tell those stories.

All this stat stuff just takes focus off of the intent one should have (I know that wont go over well with some people). Just like the Countdown gametype has nothing to do with WWII or how it was fought.. stats are another stab in the dark at winning over a certain type of player.

..and a BOOM HEADSHOT! stat? wow.. I never thought I'd see it here

 

[Apos]

I'm thinking about something familiar to that what Zestumei suggested.

Skill value (placeholder name), which consists two ratios: kills per hour and team points per hour. Both form one score. That really describes what player do on battlefield. Player who stays on back and only kill people gets e.g. 30 kills in a round and his final score will be ~40 (depends how many officers he kills). Other player who doesn't have good aim so he kills few enemies less, but works hard on capturing/defending sectors and earning team points. His final score will be ~60 because for example he killed 10 enemies and captured 4 flags, got teamplay bonus and won the battle.

That make more sens for RO game, which suppose to be teamwork game.

 

[Nikolai]

I like how everyone here says "I don't care about about K/D, but everybody else does and turns into a camp whore!"

How lucky we are to have the very best of gamers collected on this little forum, while everyone else is just a stupid COD idiot who would sell his mother for a good K/D ratio.

 

[Zetsumei]

Scoreboard i would like to see:

Player______|__Class__|__K/D__|__Teamsc.__|__Totalsc.__|__Time*__|__Ping

Heinz__________MG______44/12________210_________254_____15min ____43_
Ramm__________SL______25/20________300_________325_____20min ____38_
OShannon______E.Rifle____4/4__________50__________54______5min ____24_

*Time player is on the server

It works well competitive as the time is generally the same for players. But it requires active calculation in that case to find out, that if you had played for 20 minutes that you would have a 20/20 score. Which is why i want that factor of time in the actual score itself.

I think that in a scoreboard its of more importance to be able to compare and see relative scores than absolute scores. (for absolute scores you could always multiply your score with the time). Or simply display both. (like a seperate K/D ratio that states like 14, and a seperate K/H ratio that says like 20).

As dividing by time normalizes someones score it allows you to compare scores over different matches. Allowing you to see if someone is having an exceptional team performance for instance. Instead of seeing that someone got a score of 500/50 just because you played 4 rounds on that server without changing map.

 

[O'Shannon]

I think that in a scoreboard its of more importance to be able to compare and see relative scores than absolute scores. (for absolute scores you could always multiply your score with the time). Or simply display both. (like a seperate K/D ratio that states like 14, and a seperate K/H ratio that says like 20).

Problem here is that a guy that join a server by the end off the round (3 min remaining) and does 4kills and dies ones would have a K/D 4/1 and K/H of 80/H

and the 80/H dont say anything about his performace, because hes might have been lucky and would have had a K/D of say 18/34 or something like that if he would have played the hole round.

thats why i think Kill/death as total numbers like 25/10 and a separate time in min thats shows how long he is on the server in this round.

you should be able to do the math by yourself or at least be able to do it by rule of thumb estimation.


Edit totally forgot too say the placemant in the Scoreboard should be by totalscore and not by Teamscore.
like this:

Player______|__Class__|__K/D__|__Teamsc.__|__Totalsc.__|__Time*__|__Ping

Heinz__________MG______44/12________220_________264_____15min ____43_
Ramm__________SL______25/20________235_________260_____20min ____38_
OShannon______E.Rifle____4/4__________50__________54______5min ____24_

 

[KingLol]

There'll never be a totally satisfying solution for representing the value of a player to his team I reckon because not all kills are equally valuable. Killing a player who is destroying half your team is much more important than blind grenading that guy who got stuck in the door.

 

[MightyWaffelSS]

They said that they wanted to bring in a wider variety of players from CoD and BF but I think they are doing a little too much to bring that player in.

 

[Zetsumei]

There'll never be a totally satisfying solution for representing the value of a player to his team I reckon because not all kills are equally valuable. Killing a player who is destroying half your team is much more important than blind grenading that guy who got stuck in the door.

The key of importance is that stats and kill info will make it in game, and its best to try our best to maximize its functionality.

You can never make things perfect however. Twi is already doing something like awarding more points for killing people going to the capzone. And they could give more points for killing someone that made a lot of kills. Just like you get more points for killing a squad leader you could get additional points awarded depending on the K/H & K/D ratio or Teamscore of players.

Problem here is that a guy that join a server by the end off the round (3 min remaining) and does 4kills and dies ones would have a K/D 4/1 and K/H of 80/H

The score of someone that joins for 3 minutes would indeed be a representation of his performance in those 3 minutes. People could easily see in the scoreboard that someone only played for 3 minutes and then conclude that he only played the easy part of the map for instance. I doubt most people would take super high scores of someone that played for a few minutes serious. And its really easily visible and accessible for players to see how long someone played.

The key is that you show information without saying what is better than what. Show the K/D ratio the K/H ratio Teampoints/Hour and Timeplayed. Gives people information that they can use for themselves to draw conclusions. Without saying that K/D is more important than K/D or Team points, you're not stating how someone should play, you're just showing info from which others can somewhat make an educated guess how someone played.

Again the key is showing normalized information from which players can be compared with each other. Someone that plays for a longer amount of time will rank up more kills, and will die more, and gain more points, meaning that if different people have been playing for a different amount of time, you cannot compare the absolute scores without compensating for the time played.