Kill Death Ratio and other stats

[Reise]

So many ridiculous posts here.

K/D is essential to any competitive FPS.

Why remove it when the people who dislike seeing details about their performance can just ignore it?

 

[<*>Nora The Martyr]

So many ridiculous posts here.

K/D is essential to any competitive FPS.

Why remove it when the people who dislike seeing details about their performance can just ignore it?

agreed, last time I checked, killing opponents helps your team win in one form or another

 

[Zetsumei]

agreed, last time I checked, killing opponents helps your team win in one form or another

And last time I checked the ratio of kills/deaths didn't really help the team win unless there was a low amount of reinforcements . Kill/Death ratio doesn't say anything if you have no Kill/Hour next to it indicating a quantification of kills.

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As an example this competitive match:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2h4g8qw.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/x43ux5.jpg

With a pure K/D ratio I would be classed as having a better killing performance than Miller & Kinglol. While they were much more important for the teams victory due to the sheer amount of their kills.

Kills/Hour allows you to give some additional information about the quantity.

 

[Makino]

yeah, a Kill/Hour would be interesting, as Obj/Hour.

 

[Dsquad]

K/D ratio is the worst stat ever, it just destroys team play and breeds campers. One reason i like ro so much is that it is a team game, hope this doesn't destroys it.

For the people that say, if you don't like it don't look at it. It isn't that simple, you'll get enough people that play for their K/D and not winning a match with you're team. I can't say enough how much i hate this, worst news about red orchestra 2 ever and i mean it.

 

[Makino]

I really think you guys are overreacting a LOT. I think the need to make a good score to secure priority on higher classes will detract this style of gameplay a lot.

 

[Private Who?]

I'm not for K/D ratio per se, but as an overall factor in scoring it has it's place I suppose.

For the RO take on TDM, which is coming whether we want it or not , K/D ratio is pretty much the only way to score the game. That's because it's a shallow, simple game type. Fun, but not much else there.

For Territory, I think the scoreboard should show your overall score, and then caps...and maybe even a bonus for being in the winning cap at the end.

For Countdown, I'd have the same one as Territory...but with a column for Deaths. Not for your kills,,,but just your deaths. And again your overall score and your caps.

Campaign I think should look like Territory for the most part. Same game, just longer. I'm guessing of course.

Overall Score / Caps / Caps FTW / Kills / Deaths would be cool to have as persistent stats. Let Steam Achievements handle the rest...I'd be fine with just that.

But looking at the new gameplay video, it looks like TWI have really put A LOT more thought into their scoreboard and how scoring relates to the progress of the player. So...I think we should stop worrying about any of it.

If you're all REALLY honest with yourselves....there's not ONE thing in that new HD footage from Yoshi that TRULY makes you cringe at the thought of buying this game and playing it to death. All I saw in those 14-15 minutes was enough to further convince me that the wait is worth it...and the wait is coming to an end.

 

[MightyWaffelSS]

You guys must not play a lot of those "inferior non realistic games" because when a KD ratio is present, a lot of people will play for that alone and not the team. Just because you say ignore it doesnt mean all the people that blindly buy this game wont. That was the thing that I liked about PC games was that there wasnt stat tracking and it was for the fun of the gameplay so I would go to console games for the KD padding fun but now that it is crossing over to PC gaming, I dont like it. Just wait until the game is released and these forums turn into the Battlefield forums.

 

[Floyd]

I wasn't going to reply in yet another stats (K/D) thread, but alas, I am.

Hopefully, what I gathered from the score screen as shown in the GDC video is correct. That being that the left side of the screen was for the map just played (or culmination thus far of a campaign being played). It's cleared at each map change (or perhaps at the end of a playing sesssion). The right side contains the instantly archived stats. But, I'm probably wrong.

I wouldn't mind having K/D kept for the map just played or just the current session. And I don't think it would be that detrimental to the game if players could see only their own personal individual stats. Or perhaps even kept with their Steam profile.

And, I think public but annonymous generic stats concerning achievements (like those in Steam for RO) or stats showing the average of all players would be fine, too.

I do think it would be detrimental to the game if a TW 'sponsored' publically accessed database were kept. (Like BCB2 for example.) Where stats are listed in sorted sequence and viewable by all.

I just implore TW (and I know they will) to use the stats that will encourage the type of gameplay they envision for each gametype.

And once again, I'll re-iterate my idea that individual server owner's should have access to a data stream that allows them to parse the data in any way they choose. Leagues can parse that data into whatever statistics them deem important. Likewise, individual server owners can do the same and parse and post the stats they find useful. That should help to attract like minded players.

 

[Stormer]

So many ridiculous posts here.

K/D is essential to any competitive FPS.

Why remove it when the people who dislike seeing details about their performance can just ignore it?

ooh the penis clan is recruiting again i see

 

[protector]

Why isn't realisitic? Some soldiers make note of the enemies they have killed, I just prefer to have a scoreboard do it for me.

 

[KingLol]

It's not realistic because in real life if your K/D results in anything except a div/0 then it means you're dead.

Having a K/D stat in the game will dramatically affect the way that the game's played. Even if someone wasn't particularly competitive, if they had a good k/d they'd be more pleased than if they had a poor k/d - why? It's simply because they'll feel like they're better than the other players and that they're valued.

This applies even to the players who say they "don't care" or will "ignore" the k/d stat because that instinct is not something that can be turned on or off like a switch. The long term problem is that if everybody plays for a good k/d in every round then they're less likely to improve because they're always playing to their strengths and never working on their weaknesses.

 

[Private Who?]

Well it's just not logical to think that in a game with a TDM game type that there won't or shouldn't be a KDR scoring system at some level. And that's OK...remember we (and TWI) should be trying all avenues to attract more players to the game. More players = good thing. Even if that means more players who don't necessarily play the game as you'd want it to be played. I think players who really only play for KDR will stick to TDM servers. Some will migrate to the other gametypes and see those for what they are....some will stay and enjoy it, some will say 'this is too hard, all I want to do is run-and-gun.' What's the problem with that if we have a game that will accommodate a greater diversity of players with a greater diversity of game-types?

I agree 100% with Floyd that server owners should be able to mutate or mod the scoreboard at the end of a round to show the stats they deem most important...but also a player should be able to see their total stats like we saw in the video, regardless of the server's settings.

Personally...I am not a great shot. I get killed a lot. That makes me almost by default a cap-whore. I am way more interested in fighting my way into a cap zone and staying alive there, for the benefit of my team and for the win. Use cover, get in the cap, stay alive. Classic RO. One thing we can guarantee is that the new game type with KDR scoring will bring in a LOT of new players. Of those new players, a significant percentage (we hope) will migrate over to the Territory and Countdown gametypes and see how much more rewarding real tactical teamwork can be. Like I did when I switched from CoDUO as my primary game to RO back in March 2006. And then again there might just be a few nights when all I have is 20-30 minutes to hop in for a quick fight and TDM scratches that itch. There's nothing wrong with that either and I'm about as excited as I can be to jump at the chance! My money awaits you TWI!

 

[Dsquad]

Why isn't realisitic? Some soldiers make note of the enemies they have killed, I just prefer to have a scoreboard do it for me.

Do those soldiers also keep note of how many times they have died?

@Private Who?
Maybe it is an idea to only have K/D ratios on TDM? I think that will solve a lot.

 

[Zetsumei]

I really think that using a Kill/Hour will help with a lot of the issues of a K/D ratio. People can then focus on quantity or quality of kills or anything in between. Aka there is no statistic ranking depicting how you should play, as either extreme on the spectrum is wrong.

With a kill/hour ratio next to a kill/death ratio allows people to see if someone is just a bad player that through a lame way is trying to get a high k/d ratio or not. Which would discourage people to only focus on their k/d ratio.

Because lets be honest, we all know that the K/D ratio will stay in every game mode, TWI is very very unlikely to limit it only to firefight and you guys know it (liking it is different ). So its best for now to focus on methods to make sure the classical issues of showcasing a K/D ratio are minimized. And I know that a kill/hour ratio can go a long way with that.

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As an example this competitive match:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2h4g8qw.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/x43ux5.jpg

With a pure K/D ratio I would be classed as having a better killing performance than Miller & Kinglol. While they were much more important for the teams victory due to the sheer amount of their kills.

Kills/Hour allows you to give some additional information about the quantity.

 

[Alvin Fuchs]

I am personally opposed to a K/D ratio. Why must players be publicly labeled as "bad" or "sub par"? You have no right to call someone a bad player via some number ratio. The thing is, it'll just make the game too competitive for my liking.

In the end what matters is that a team won (especially in a campaign). Not that Skill-Obsessed-Clanner pulled a 10:1 K/D and 73 K/H while hip-spamming his SVT.

Of course now you'll tell me to play on a disabled K/D server. Yeah, just what we need. 50 filter options to break up and dilute the 300 server variations.

It's just too different from Ost, I'm sorry.

 

[Dsquad]

I am personally opposed to a K/D ratio. Why must players be publicly labeled as "bad" or "sub par"? You have no right to call someone a bad player via some number ratio. The thing is, it'll just make the game too competitive for my liking.

In the end what matters is that a team won (especially in a campaign). Not that Skill-Obsessed-Clanner pulled a 10:1 K/D and 73 K/H while hip-spamming his SVT.

Of course now you'll tell me to play on a disabled K/D server. Yeah, just what we need. 50 filter options to break up and dilute the 300 server variations.

It's just too different from Ost, I'm sorry.

Don't be sorry, i fully agree with you. I hope these post will make TWI reconsider

 

[kllr101]

K/D ratio should be there, but it shouldn't be the main stat you see. Infact, it should be shoved right at the end of the scoreboard (or only viewable from stats page)

Except in the TDM mode, where you can't really avoid having a K/D ratio as a score.

 

[Nicholas]

When TWI said "accessible realism" I thought they meant hardcore realism but with smoother controls and animations.

Screw K/D ratios, and screw firefight mode, I know TWI wants this game to be more popular, but it will do so by being different, not by having crappy cod modes.

When new people get this game they will automatically try firefight mode first, and to them it will be another codish game, playing territory will blow them away.

 

[Zetsumei]

I am personally opposed to a K/D ratio. Why must players be publicly labeled as "bad" or "sub par"? You have no right to call someone a bad player via some number ratio. The thing is, it'll just make the game too competitive for my liking.

In the end what matters is that a team won (especially in a campaign). Not that Skill-Obsessed-Clanner pulled a 10:1 K/D and 73 K/H while hip-spamming his SVT.

Of course now you'll tell me to play on a disabled K/D server. Yeah, just what we need. 50 filter options to break up and dilute the 300 server variations.

It's just too different from Ost, I'm sorry.

I fully agree with you for public matches (for competitive matches stats can be handy information for a clan leader), however I don't think we can get around statistics any more. And as we all know if you run a server that isn't statistics logged, its likely going to be a lot harder to fill up resulting in most servers running statistics enabled. Which is why I'm pushing K/H at this point. (remember TWI is a company and in the end the cold hard fact is that stats/perks/achievements will on average keep people playing the game for longer, although its often in my opinion somewhat detrimental to gameplay).

Personally I'd be a supporter of only being able to see detailed statistics in private passworded servers. But since a K/D ratio is making it in, it is better to have a K/H ratio in it as well, in order to make the game less stagnant. With K/H more people will try to take down enemy reinforcement numbers, rather than focus purely on using up less reinforcements than you take down.