so, i don't see this mentioned often (At least, in the current discussion)
But the current perks & perk levelling feel -TERRIBLE-
Lets look at the per level for support, for example:
@25: 50% Welding prof, 25% shotgun damage, 625% Shotgun pen (!) and +50% Grenade damage
Lets compare that to KF1 @ R6
+60% Damage, 90% Shotgun pen, +30% ammo, +50% Grenade damage, +120% Grenade carry capacity, +60% Weight capacity, +150% Welding speed, 70% Discount on shotguns
Lets not forget you also spawned with the hunting shotgun (Double barrel)
The "Skills" are pretty much pointless to mention with how few overall are actually worth mentioning to begin with.
This same issue appears on every class, it's 10+ levels before any of the bonuses add up to anything useful, and the bonuses that matter the most for a class (Damage, Ammo, Defense) scale crap compared to the first game.
I hate to put it this way, but KF2 feels free to play as it stands in early access, i keep expecting to see a real-cash shop added with things like a one-time use +100% damage item and such nonsense.
I'd seriously say to ditch the current levels, go back to the 6 levels with more XP per level than current, but effectively scaling to L30, Hell, even bring back the golden perk icons, keep the skills as they are.
Because with how long it takes to hit 10+ even playing on hard and up, the amount of difference between levels doesn't feel punchy at all, even with the "skills" factored in.
For those confused, here's some basic math:
if i have a weapon that hits for 100 damage, and an enemy with 500 health, it's going to take 5 hits to kill it.
if i have a +15% damage bonus, i hit for 115 damage, and it still takes 5 hits to kill it (115x4 = 460)
So, to kill the same enemy in 4 hits, not 5, i need a 25% damage bonus, which means that to see any significant difference, i need to be max level on an existing perk.
By comparison, the old shotgun scaling was 10% per perk level, ending at 160% damage, or over double the current scaling amounts.
The berserker gets crapped on even harder:
Base (Doesn't scale)
Per level:
Mind you, i don't think the ranged weapons count as "Melee" but i'm not sure, but with the max +25% damage, i wouldn't be able to tell anyways since even on normal it takes several hits for something like the nailgun to actually kill anything slightly threatening. (Hint: they should if they don't, just make it "Berserker weapon damage" like levelling the perk requires)
Long story short, a lot of people are probably going to get driven off by this once it releases fully, it was hard enough, leveling maps notwithstanding, to level a perk to rank 6, but the bonuses were MASSIVELY GAME CHANGING, now, you don't even care unless it's a 5th level or max, and even then you still barely notice.
I see a lot of posts (Like in the sharpshooter thread) about how the game and big enemies should require skill and knowledge of mechanics, but on normal, me dodging and emptying 10+ rounds from an AA12 into the face of a scrake oughta drop him PDQ. But it doesn't, it's new health and the new shotgun damage paired with the new terrible perk scaling means that it's probably still standing and flailing about unless it was already at half health.
A step in the right direction was having the perks start from level 1 with their associated kit (EG: A healing weapon and nade on the medic, a shotgun on support, etc.) but all the other little things are just bad (Removing the cost reductions for your perk weapons, massively nerfing the damage bonus, etc.)
After all, it wasn't the perk scaling that "ruined" the formula in KF1, it was the massively overpowered weapons (Hai, M99, old Xbow, Pipe bombs, etc.) Thinking on it, and as others mentioned (and has been basically confirmed won't happen again) it was mostly sharp having pistol bonuses. (Hello, gunslinger)
So, scale the perks up -now- while theres not a huge pile of weapons to balance, and then focus new weapons around that level of scaling, hell on earth should generally feel like normal or hard with unleveled perks when you're on a max-level perk. Doable, but pretty crazy hard.
Just my probably TL-DR Causing .02
But the current perks & perk levelling feel -TERRIBLE-
Lets look at the per level for support, for example:
- +2% Welding Proficiency
- +1% Shotgun Damage
- +25% Shotgun Penetration
- +2% Grenade Damage
@25: 50% Welding prof, 25% shotgun damage, 625% Shotgun pen (!) and +50% Grenade damage
Lets compare that to KF1 @ R6
+60% Damage, 90% Shotgun pen, +30% ammo, +50% Grenade damage, +120% Grenade carry capacity, +60% Weight capacity, +150% Welding speed, 70% Discount on shotguns
Lets not forget you also spawned with the hunting shotgun (Double barrel)
The "Skills" are pretty much pointless to mention with how few overall are actually worth mentioning to begin with.
This same issue appears on every class, it's 10+ levels before any of the bonuses add up to anything useful, and the bonuses that matter the most for a class (Damage, Ammo, Defense) scale crap compared to the first game.
I hate to put it this way, but KF2 feels free to play as it stands in early access, i keep expecting to see a real-cash shop added with things like a one-time use +100% damage item and such nonsense.
I'd seriously say to ditch the current levels, go back to the 6 levels with more XP per level than current, but effectively scaling to L30, Hell, even bring back the golden perk icons, keep the skills as they are.
Because with how long it takes to hit 10+ even playing on hard and up, the amount of difference between levels doesn't feel punchy at all, even with the "skills" factored in.
For those confused, here's some basic math:
if i have a weapon that hits for 100 damage, and an enemy with 500 health, it's going to take 5 hits to kill it.
if i have a +15% damage bonus, i hit for 115 damage, and it still takes 5 hits to kill it (115x4 = 460)
So, to kill the same enemy in 4 hits, not 5, i need a 25% damage bonus, which means that to see any significant difference, i need to be max level on an existing perk.
By comparison, the old shotgun scaling was 10% per perk level, ending at 160% damage, or over double the current scaling amounts.
The berserker gets crapped on even harder:
Base (Doesn't scale)
- +5% Attack Speed
- +5% Damage Resistance
- +10% Movement Speed
- +25% Bloat Bile Resistance
- +25% Siren Resistance
Per level:
- +1% Melee Damage
- +0.8% Attack Speed
- +0.6% Movement Speed
Mind you, i don't think the ranged weapons count as "Melee" but i'm not sure, but with the max +25% damage, i wouldn't be able to tell anyways since even on normal it takes several hits for something like the nailgun to actually kill anything slightly threatening. (Hint: they should if they don't, just make it "Berserker weapon damage" like levelling the perk requires)
Long story short, a lot of people are probably going to get driven off by this once it releases fully, it was hard enough, leveling maps notwithstanding, to level a perk to rank 6, but the bonuses were MASSIVELY GAME CHANGING, now, you don't even care unless it's a 5th level or max, and even then you still barely notice.
I see a lot of posts (Like in the sharpshooter thread) about how the game and big enemies should require skill and knowledge of mechanics, but on normal, me dodging and emptying 10+ rounds from an AA12 into the face of a scrake oughta drop him PDQ. But it doesn't, it's new health and the new shotgun damage paired with the new terrible perk scaling means that it's probably still standing and flailing about unless it was already at half health.
A step in the right direction was having the perks start from level 1 with their associated kit (EG: A healing weapon and nade on the medic, a shotgun on support, etc.) but all the other little things are just bad (Removing the cost reductions for your perk weapons, massively nerfing the damage bonus, etc.)
After all, it wasn't the perk scaling that "ruined" the formula in KF1, it was the massively overpowered weapons (Hai, M99, old Xbow, Pipe bombs, etc.) Thinking on it, and as others mentioned (and has been basically confirmed won't happen again) it was mostly sharp having pistol bonuses. (Hello, gunslinger)
So, scale the perks up -now- while theres not a huge pile of weapons to balance, and then focus new weapons around that level of scaling, hell on earth should generally feel like normal or hard with unleveled perks when you're on a max-level perk. Doable, but pretty crazy hard.
Just my probably TL-DR Causing .02