After seeing this I won't open the SDK ... unless the gameplay sucks 
Nice map, we will see with what the oter mapping heroes here will come up with.
Nice map, we will see with what the oter mapping heroes here will come up with.
KF-NorthSea
- Thread starter Murphy
- Start date
I replaced both of my elevators with stairs now. As this wasn't planned, one of them doesn't look too hot.
It would be nice if some friendly folks could test this map on a private server. At this point I'm not olooking for suggestions anymore but pretty much only for error reports. If you have something small and nice in mind, I'd be happy to hear it though.
Thanks in advance, people.
Download from Rapidshare.com
It would be nice if some friendly folks could test this map on a private server. At this point I'm not olooking for suggestions anymore but pretty much only for error reports. If you have something small and nice in mind, I'd be happy to hear it though.
Thanks in advance, people.
Download from Rapidshare.com
I'll start off with one obvious thing (see attached picture 1).
One concern I have is frame rates. My computer dropped to about 40 frames per second in some places (outside) of this map while I am able to get a couple hundred on the official maps.
I like your use of lighting, it's competent.
The ladders need work because the specimens can't reach you when you are in the middle.
I'm not sure the exact details of optimization with static meshes and bsp but I noticed that there's a lot of places in you map where you use bsp (example: large pipes at the bottom, walkways). Making some of these static meshes or semisolid could possibly benefit frame rates and build times. I notice that all the large pipes are being rendered while I am outside even though I can't see them. Antiportals might help in this situation.
-------------------- NOTE: the following is my blunt opinion
I think you map is too large. For example, you ladders are large enough to accommodate almost three people (based on model size not gameplay) and your walkways are as wide as an interstate highway! Your doorways are at least 20 feet high. It kills the sense that the specimens can pop out from around the corner at any moment to eat you face off because the corner is almost always a long distance away from you.
While the overall map from afar looks great I find that it is lacking in detail. There's nothing to break up the negative space and everything is rather plain looking. This, coupled with the incredibly large size makes me feel this map belongs in the ut2k4 universe more than it does the killing floor one.
One concern I have is frame rates. My computer dropped to about 40 frames per second in some places (outside) of this map while I am able to get a couple hundred on the official maps.
I like your use of lighting, it's competent.
The ladders need work because the specimens can't reach you when you are in the middle.
I'm not sure the exact details of optimization with static meshes and bsp but I noticed that there's a lot of places in you map where you use bsp (example: large pipes at the bottom, walkways). Making some of these static meshes or semisolid could possibly benefit frame rates and build times. I notice that all the large pipes are being rendered while I am outside even though I can't see them. Antiportals might help in this situation.
-------------------- NOTE: the following is my blunt opinion
I think you map is too large. For example, you ladders are large enough to accommodate almost three people (based on model size not gameplay) and your walkways are as wide as an interstate highway! Your doorways are at least 20 feet high. It kills the sense that the specimens can pop out from around the corner at any moment to eat you face off because the corner is almost always a long distance away from you.
While the overall map from afar looks great I find that it is lacking in detail. There's nothing to break up the negative space and everything is rather plain looking. This, coupled with the incredibly large size makes me feel this map belongs in the ut2k4 universe more than it does the killing floor one.
Attachments
Murphy you entering the competition? Looking at the entries so far you stand a good chance. Personally As long as I don't come last I will be happy xD
I just tested this map, it's huge. It feels more "futuristic" than the KF theme, kind of out of this world. It has some nice details but I won't spoil them
This map should be easier to play even on hard or suicidal since you have a lot of space for mobility but I haven't tested it online yet.
This map could be a potential winner IMO for its design...
I found a bug, I don't know if it was intended but there's an invisible wall in a corridor on the 2nd picture:
This map should be easier to play even on hard or suicidal since you have a lot of space for mobility but I haven't tested it online yet.
This map could be a potential winner IMO for its design...
I found a bug, I don't know if it was intended but there's an invisible wall in a corridor on the 2nd picture:
Ah, thanks. I initially wanted to barricade that but forgot to remove the invisible wall. I also left a huge blue pillar in the map, which has to be removed.
And yes, it's a lot easier than the stock maps, except maybe KF-Farm.
@Bej-Bej: Allow me to be blunt myself: I agree.
It's futuristic looking because it is inspired by Metal Gear Solid 2's "Big Shell". It isn't just inspired by it, but it's an homage. This means it doesn't fit into KF 100%, I agree, but that's the way it is. I hope players will be happier about seeing something different than they are upset about seeing something unfitting. Of course that's up to every individual.
The walkways can't just be turned into StaticMeshes without ruining the lighting. I'll see about the pipes at the bottom. Making some of those semi-solid is a good idea.
Lacking in detail: Also true. My half-assed explanation for this is, I set the rule for myself to only use custom content (broken only for the dead bodies, the trader and her room and the Horzine logo, because those things have to be taken from the KF universe - and dead bodies are hard to make). As such I can't just go around and litter my map with StaticMeshes I stumble upon. If I need something I have to create it. As a one-man mapper with a ****ty pc there are certain limits for going into small details.
I hoped the general design would suffice to make the map look good. It looks good, alright, but not great. So that didn't quite work out.
Nothing I can change about that though. Especially not now, with the deadline tomorrow.
And yes, it's too big. I like the size, but doorways do look too big because they aren't made to fit with the characters but with the area, which is too big in the first place. The thing is, I don't want the environment to be any smaller. It has its size because I want it to have its size, not because I built it too large by accident. But if I make the doors smaller so match with the character size they'll look out of place! Even more so than making them too large for the characters (which is how it is now). I tried it.
This is also something that gives it a bit of an (unintended) UT2004 flair, because that's the same thing that happened in UT2004 maps. They had a certain size that was made that way for the design and the gameplay, but characters look too small in it. I hope players won't be too bothered by that.
About the framerate: Two days ago the map was running a LOT better. Then I added coronas and everything went down the drain. Rebuilding times shot through the roof and the performance dropped even lower than before. I am seriously considering to get rid of them for the final. I'll try lowering their visibility radius a good deal. Perhaps that helps a bit.
And yes, it's a lot easier than the stock maps, except maybe KF-Farm.
@Bej-Bej: Allow me to be blunt myself: I agree.
It's futuristic looking because it is inspired by Metal Gear Solid 2's "Big Shell". It isn't just inspired by it, but it's an homage. This means it doesn't fit into KF 100%, I agree, but that's the way it is. I hope players will be happier about seeing something different than they are upset about seeing something unfitting. Of course that's up to every individual.
The walkways can't just be turned into StaticMeshes without ruining the lighting. I'll see about the pipes at the bottom. Making some of those semi-solid is a good idea.
Lacking in detail: Also true. My half-assed explanation for this is, I set the rule for myself to only use custom content (broken only for the dead bodies, the trader and her room and the Horzine logo, because those things have to be taken from the KF universe - and dead bodies are hard to make
). As such I can't just go around and litter my map with StaticMeshes I stumble upon. If I need something I have to create it. As a one-man mapper with a ****ty pc there are certain limits for going into small details.I hoped the general design would suffice to make the map look good. It looks good, alright, but not great. So that didn't quite work out.
Nothing I can change about that though. Especially not now, with the deadline tomorrow.
And yes, it's too big. I like the size, but doorways do look too big because they aren't made to fit with the characters but with the area, which is too big in the first place. The thing is, I don't want the environment to be any smaller. It has its size because I want it to have its size, not because I built it too large by accident. But if I make the doors smaller so match with the character size they'll look out of place! Even more so than making them too large for the characters (which is how it is now). I tried it.
This is also something that gives it a bit of an (unintended) UT2004 flair, because that's the same thing that happened in UT2004 maps. They had a certain size that was made that way for the design and the gameplay, but characters look too small in it. I hope players won't be too bothered by that.
About the framerate: Two days ago the map was running a LOT better. Then I added coronas and everything went down the drain. Rebuilding times shot through the roof and the performance dropped even lower than before. I am seriously considering to get rid of them for the final. I'll try lowering their visibility radius a good deal. Perhaps that helps a bit.
About your low framerate, I noticed you have a lot (more of 3000 tri I know) of bsp in some view. You know maybe that the BSP is very more expansive than statics meshes. You can maybe make something for that ...
Your map is huge and the exterior is visually awesome (I love the exterior part), but I found the place very large for the gameplay.
At the beginning of my map I had exactly the same problem : a very big scale for my hallways. Like you, I made a choice but not the same: I reduced all my map. That's only my opinion, but I think that the action is more intense and the player have more stress when his environment is smaller.
Of course a too small environment isnt good ...
(I take the same hallway that the official map BiolisticLab to have a good scale)
Good luck to finish your map.
Your map is huge and the exterior is visually awesome (I love the exterior part), but I found the place very large for the gameplay.
At the beginning of my map I had exactly the same problem : a very big scale for my hallways. Like you, I made a choice but not the same: I reduced all my map. That's only my opinion, but I think that the action is more intense and the player have more stress when his environment is smaller.
Of course a too small environment isnt good ...
(I take the same hallway that the official map BiolisticLab to have a good scale)
Good luck to finish your map.
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Surely performance isnt part of the winning critieria - so I wouldnt worry about that. TWI will sort that out for you if you won and they published it. They're looking for gameplay / idea / creativity - not the most expert mapper on the planet with a team who can one shot maps out of their backside at a dime a dozen.
Of course performance is going to be judged! I would be surprised and "flabbergasted" if it wouldn't factor in.
That being said, I just shoved out almost 1000 brushes (not tris! Brushes!) just by replacing the pipes and the wooden banks and getting rid of the little connector-cube-things of the cross-beams. Shouldn't look a bit worse, but now I have almost 1000 brushes less in the level.
@Bej-Bej: I can't do anything about the ladders. That's how they work.
Do you think I should just get rid of them?
I had to get rid of my elevators because the specimens are so stupid. I'd hate to lose the ladders too, but if it's as easily exploitable as just sitting on the ladder and be completely invincible I think I'll have to.
That being said, I just shoved out almost 1000 brushes (not tris! Brushes!) just by replacing the pipes and the wooden banks and getting rid of the little connector-cube-things of the cross-beams. Shouldn't look a bit worse, but now I have almost 1000 brushes less in the level.
@Bej-Bej: I can't do anything about the ladders. That's how they work.
Do you think I should just get rid of them?
I had to get rid of my elevators because the specimens are so stupid. I'd hate to lose the ladders too, but if it's as easily exploitable as just sitting on the ladder and be completely invincible I think I'll have to.
I havnt played the latest version but I just wanted to say, yes scrap ladders, they are a pain in the backside. Especially the fact that if you watch someone climb them, they look like they are sliding up and down, it's horrible, I had to replace mine with stairs which aren't so nice but they work at least.
I think the ladders as an exploitable place might hurt you in the contest. With the quickly approaching deadline my advice is to take them out for your contest entry with the intent to include them again in a later build. Eventually you could possibly code something to force a player to lower his/her weapon while climbing a ladder.
EDIT: more stuff. If you set the strawberry jam to shadowcast=false you won't get the darker area in the center.
EDIT: more stuff. If you set the strawberry jam to shadowcast=false you won't get the darker area in the center.
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True. I'll move one ladder segment somewhere into the void so it stays in the myLevel package in case someone is interested in it but the ladders themselves will be removed.
Fixed those shadows already. Thanks.
Fixed those shadows already. Thanks.