Level Design KF-LegoHell_MiniMap - Opinions and Progress

[GrayveRose]

I once made a "Minimap" for UT2004 when I was in high school which was a blown up version of my bedroom, it took me 2 years but it was fun to make. Decided I'd try again but with Killing Floor, now having more experience and common sense on what I'm doing. Been working on this for 3 days straight, plenty of hours already. I plan on having it done in a week or less at this rate. This is not my bedroom, the whole setting here I just kinda made up as I went along. But it's basically supposed to be the room of 2 brothers.

The map will be called "Lego Hell", which I'm up to change whenever I find a better name. Basically it will be a huge bedroom, where you are about 6 lego blocks stacked, and each lego is 1.25 inches long; if that gives a sense of proportion. Most the map will be in a maze like setting, but will often pour out into larger areas depending on the large objects oriented in the room, such as the gamecube and movies and beds, etc.

Im trying to make it the objects to scale, actually doing measurements and proportions, and using Maya to make the custom content.

Curious what you guys who still check this forum might think so far, regarding frames per second, idea suggestions, or anything constructive. Would be much appreciated, and make the process more interesting and involved on my part to know what others might think that test it.

Things to be aware of: I'm aware that all the lego pieces is going to add up on the frames, as it does already. Ive heavily optimized the static meshes with a crazy amount of antiportals, and made simple 6 sides low poly lego pieces for the pieces where you cannot see the tops or bottoms. Since those antiportals have been added, I've been able to play with decent frames, much like any other map. Before it was probably under 20 fps. Also, the blue lego structure and maze is only a small part of what will be the whole lego maze, its only about 1/6 of whats left to add in lego wise. But there is enough there to test and make good use of the area.

As you can see I've included the file, if you choose to download it and test it; I only ask that you tell me what you think if that's not too much to ask.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3pt2yu988pwces4

(I'm not giant, though I could be with changesize console command lol. Just flying in the sky with a cheat code)

 

[Alex_KF]

This is epic! Very clever idea and great lighting as well

 

[Lacedaemonius]

Very novel idea. I really hope this gets greater attention, as mappers by and large seem to have a terrible sense of scale.

 

[Penetrator]

Did a quick game on suicidal. Nice looking map so far. Cant wait til u add some more zed spawns and fill up the open area. The maze is interesting but kinda weak...needs more dead ends imho.

Found a couple things that you might wanna look into tho G. The trader can be accessed thru 1 of the walls in the maze ( the wall directly behind the trader chick). Also, found that husks can shoot thru 1 of the exterior walls of the maze.

As far as suggestions go, if you are taking them...a possible runway behind the tv stand? And i am not a fan of the skylight. Not really sure if that is needed, as i am sure it plays some role in the fps department. For fps without zed, i average about 200. but once zed get spawned, i drop to 60-70ish. But like i said, cant wait til u finish this one up.

 

[DMN666]

Wow, your map is really amazing (and empty, as a nerd, a empty room leaves so much creativity...in collecting wise).

-There is a hiddening spot under the legos on the corner. You can crawl under and the zeds cant get you.
-Zeds well lose you when you are too far away. Atlease past the GC going diagonally. So outer spawn sections would do good.
-One of the extremly few maps to use karma items (talking about the 2 blocks next to the GC). It can be fun but its very buggy.
-The karma legos can be pushed to the cabinet and are able to camp on the first board. The zeds can not get you.
-Going behind the cabinet hides you from the zeds (like i said, past a certain line and they all lose you).
-You are able to fall down the trader area and not get kicked out, means you are basically trapped until its trader time (If you live)
Those are all the bugs i found.

I find it very unrealistic that there would only be 1 color of legos even used, hope its just like a template for now where you well add more colors later (except the white transparent ones on already).
The texture of the legos are extremly dirty, they would never look like that, but i know your just trying to fit the KF style.

Your texture usage is amazing, that door looks freakin amazing. It wins best door on KF.

Im looking foward to your maps future updates!

 

[GrayveRose]

Thanks guys, I'm a little disappointed on how the floor's shadows came out though, but Im glad you think its great lighting thus far Alex ha. I put the lightmap on a good low number, but the legos hardly make shadows unless its really dense spots. Ha yeah this is true Lacedaemonius; especially with texture scaling on a lot of customs. Textures seem to be either be repeated too many times or scaled up so much that you cant really see any detail. Some things werent measured, like the tv stand and the South Park poster, but those types of objects are variablistic so it shouldnt matter. Though now it seems like that is a big *** poster in scale to that gamecube lol.

I appreciate you taking the time to investigate and give me it straight DMN666; all those bugs but 1 I noticed as well, but either forgot to fix them, didnt notice till after I uploaded it here, or they will be fixed naturally as the map is built.
Im really curious how you was able to fall down inside the trader though, I've tried well to make the walls high enough on the 2nd floor to prevent people from jumping around the maze walls. (Nevermind, I found some obvious places to get up)
As far as the AI not being able to reach you away from the main area, thats just circumstantial because the room environment, most the map taking place in a big *** subtract space. When I fill the space in the room to its best extent, I'll do my best to make sure theres no place you can go that they wont find and molest you to their best extent; cause I really enjoy pathing AI and go beyond to do a thorough job on it. Filling the space will also make the map not feel so empty, it is a pretty giant room when your the size of a lego guy lol.
Yeah! the karma is a POS when you stand on it, but I love the dynamics of it and the shadows. It seems that the AI can stand on it just fine and not twist around like in a hurricane, but players cant. Im gonna try and find a fix for this for players, might be a simple setting in the karma I hope. I dont mind that they can be used as dynamically placed stairs, I want people to get up on the shelves at some point, but havent expanded to that area yet to add in the movies and other objects that will be used as ramps and such.
The hiding spot makes me sad, its true, you can crouch under and be fine. I thought I was being clever when I made it, like it could be an escape hatch if you get cornered, but its not gonna be worth it lol, Im gonna fill it back in.
The legos are pretty dirty, its cause I made a custom detail texture that is supposed to look like scratches on plastic, but I think it looks to dirty cause the contrast, but I do like the effect so I may keep it. The legos will have several different colors later on, I was gonna color code them depending on sections of the maze (sections of the map) you are in. Like a blue, red, green, yellow, white, perhaps. I may also make some lego guys and use them as traders. With custom animation too perhaps if I feel like it ha.

Thanks for the crits and compliments so far!

 

[Murphy]

To get more detailed shadows:
There is a maximum resolution of the lightmap per surface, so on a large enough surface, even with the highest lightmap reolution setting, it's going to be stretched a lot and therefore look inaccurate. If you split the brush of the room into smaller cubes you'll get a lightmap for each of the surface sections and it's also going to show shadows of much smaller details, like your lego-maze.

Hopefully, the lighting won't produce slight seams where the sections meet. This happens sometimes, unfortunately. :-/

To optimize the lego structure for performance:
Don't use individual blocks but build your lego maze walls like you would build regular walls, with lego wall textures on the side and the little round lego teeth thingamajigs on top. Painted on, in the texture!

Then add round 3d "teeth" on top of the painted ones and give them a cull-distance so they don't show up from across the map but only when a player is close.

 

[GrayveRose]

Ah is that so? never thought of that before. interesting. As far as the brush being used instead of statics on the legos, I'm not sure about that entirely, i know it would be better in a lot of ways, but going about building it would be brutal. not as easy compared to static meshes, and with the antiportals they should de render either way. though i may take your advice and use cull distance with the tops, that should cut down a bit I think. Genial advice though, just gotta go add a bunch of subdivisions to my room now. Id rather use a bunch of antiportals and statics for the legos than zone portals and brush though, but im most likely going to cull the tops, thats a good idea. considering each one has 12 sides, and there are 4-8 on every piece that shows them

 

[DMN666]

Im really curious how you was able to fall down inside the trader though, I've tried well to make the walls high enough on the 2nd floor to prevent people from jumping around the maze walls. (Nevermind, I found some obvious places to get up)

Yeah! the karma is a POS when you stand on it, but I love the dynamics of it and the shadows.

I dont mind that they can be used as dynamically placed stairs, I want people to get up on the shelves at some point, but havent expanded to that area yet to add in the movies and other objects that will be used as ramps and such.
The hiding spot makes me sad, its true, you can crouch under and be fine. I thought I was being clever when I made it, like it could be an escape hatch if you get cornered, but its not gonna be worth it lol, Im gonna fill it back in.

Yeah its not that hard to get ontop of block walls. I did fall once inside and it did kick me out, though the 2nd and 3rd time it did not. Having a roof would fix the problem. Its makes a room and the windows could be clear blocks.
As for the trader, she is transformed into a lego version lol. There is a mutator which can enable to change traders on any map.
http://killingfloor.ru/forum/index.php?/topic/2422-replacetradermut/

Karma items are pretty funny
The thing is when you get on the shelf, they dont noticed you so you can just camp their, unless there is a whole in which zeds can go in and get on the same level as you.

Well the escape hatch could work if the zeds can walk in, and is the only aread to have a weld door...idk im not a map maker.

 

[GrayveRose]

Yeah its not that hard to get ontop of block walls. I did fall once inside and it did kick me out, though the 2nd and 3rd time it did not. Having a roof would fix the problem. Its makes a room and the windows could be clear blocks.
As for the trader, she is transformed into a lego version lol. There is a mutator which can enable to change traders on any map.
http://killingfloor.ru/forum/index.php?/topic/2422-replacetradermut/

Karma items are pretty funny
The thing is when you get on the shelf, they dont noticed you so you can just camp their, unless there is a whole in which zeds can go in and get on the same level as you.

Well the escape hatch could work if the zeds can walk in, and is the only aread to have a weld door...idk im not a map maker.

Yuh indeed, they would waltz right up. crouch spaces are the most unfriendly thing to zeds. Someone said ladders, but they can actually use the ladders in some cases, stalkers and even crawlers lol. But crouch spaces, only crawlers have the height to walk right up to you. I just decided to patch up the hole.
I noticed that the karma blocks dont move online, they act like any other static, kind of depressing but i guess that fixes some problems. Though ive seen maps that use them online like arcade skate park.
Yeah like I said, theres a lot left to do and the zeds not reaching is just circumstantial to the fact that the map is way far from being done. the way zeds reach you is with you path nodes, and navigation points in general. Ive only been pathing the areas that are final like the lego maze, just pathing it as I go so the rest of the room is all unfamiliar to them. But its not a beta version or anything like that, just an early alpha so its all good.

Theres a lego trader? that sounds interesting, where can i find that

 

[DMN666]

Theres a lego trader? that sounds interesting, where can i find that

Oh no, i said you could make a lego trader, but she doesnt have to be solely made for this map.
If you make a model (or rip one from some lego game and edit it) you could make her into a mutator and the lego trader well go elsewhere without the need to edit the map, plus a new portrait!

Oh, and yes, Karma items are movable online. Whenever i go to Arcade-GasStation, i always knock down the water coolers.

 

[Skillz]

Looks like it has potential. Not too fond of the "lego maze" thing though, but I love giant maps. UT2004 has a lot of them that was ported from UT from years ago when I used to play. One day I'll get around to take some screenshots and/or video of the maps. Really wish more of them were available on KF.

 

[GrayveRose]

Ha thanks, giant maps are great, and minimaps are always interesting to me. Maybe you will like it more when you see the bigger picture as it develops. The whole map wont be lego mazes.

I took your advice Murphy about the subdivisions on the floor, split them into a lot more pieces, which did exponentially improve the lighting. But now I have a new issue, or least the issue is obvious where before it was too blurry to tell. The objects that are high up enough cast shadows, or that are big enough (making them high enough), but ones down low dont register at all.

After some testing, it seems it has something to do with the light itself, and its radius. If i put the light closer to the floor, it renders all the meshes the closer I get to them, but up high it does not. Im not sure what property is in the light to fix this, but its really frustrating. If its not 1 thing, its another with the lighting and rendering. Any idea why? or what I can do as a substitute?

 

[Alex_KF]

You could try using a sunlight actor instead of a regular light.

Also, your map has alot of Antiportals. Placing too many can actually *decrease* performance rather than improve it.

http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/LevelOptimizationAntiportals.html

 

[GrayveRose]

If that becomes the case Ill consider removing a bunch later on, so far its worked wonders and has only been a positve.

Yeah I did try that, but it would be silly on other sides of the room where the shadows should be going a different direction. Unless I did a sunlight going straight down so the shadows werent biased to any direction, but ehh. Also, Im already using a sunlight actor for the skybox and the sun light to come through the windows, sunlight only works through the fakebackdrop surfaces in the subtraction brushes, even if i put the sunlight in the main room and not in the skybox. Think Id have to delete my skybox. Ill figure something out, I have an idea or 2 that might work. Just kind bs that it is arbitrarily deciding not shadow stuff thats close to the ground

 

[GrayveRose]

Glad to say that this project isn't dead, I just can take some time to get going on things and sometimes lose motivation if I get stuck or something gets too repetitive. Been working on this a lot recently, since I solved some of the issues that have been holding me back, such as the best way to light the map and objects, and some other things. In the meantime I have also got a computer upgrade quite extensive, so not getting such bad frames.

Anyway, here's the progress:

Basically entirely done with the blue base, expanded it to the middle where the bases junction and connect around the gamecube. The invisible bounds are to force players to stay in the maze for the time being now that its big enough to move around in. They wont be permanent.

What I'd really like for people to test different areas with "stat fps" on in the console or some other frame rate viewer and give me an idea of what your average fps is and your lowest, and where that spot is. Im aware there are some exploits in here where you can get on the walls and other things, thats temporary also.
I'd also like general feedback for ideas and tips possibly for things you notice.

Also, the map is now called "The Bedroom Experiment", instead of "Lego Hell". Not sure why I got Lego Hell.
Heres the description:

"In an attempt to go back in time before the specimen breakout that destroyed the world, you and 5 other survivors were selected. Upon entering the machine, and going back to 2004; you find yourself in about the right time period, but not the right place... It seems as if you are now in some kind of parallel universe, where you are nothing more than a pawn in some kind of bigger scheme. Surrouned by legos, movies, in what you would assume to be teen and kid's bedroom. Its uncertain what will happen now, or if you will ever return. What is certain is that the zeds have followed you here, and the potential brothers are aware of your survivor skills and situation, and seem to treat it like a game or some ****ed experiment. While the family and kids are away, you will make your stand."

Some future plans are to put in a tv with metroid prime on the screen, controllers and some games for the gamecube, a bunk bed, and possibly a night stand. As for the lego bases, each color goes to a different style of structures.
Blue= Maze/fort
Yellow= Structures (bridges, tower)
Green= Tall wide maze
Red= Random obstacles

Map Download Link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/sxggd1pcr73b3p8/KF-TheBedroomExperiment.zip

 

[GrayveRose]

New Alpha Version

New Alpha Version

Hello, its been a long time since I posted any map content or anything on this. I continued to work on this map, but ran into huge frame rate issues and it stopped progress for a long long time, since March. I just found a compromise that doubled frame rate in the worst areas, and quadrupled from the birds-eye view (15 fps up to 60 and higher).

(Its all variablistic based on zed count in view, culled objects in view vs objects in view, and visible antiportals. The method I've gone about to optimize this map has been to use anti portals (no zone portals) on all my static meshes. I didnt think of the cost the anti portals were having though, so depending on where you are in the map it can jump from 140 to 25 frames per second lol. Now Ive compromised by adding Cull Distance to all anti portals, so as you go higher and more open in the map and the frames drop, it stays much more consistent and on a somewhat modern middle end PC should be around 60 frames (I have a Nvidia 770 GTX 2GB, i7 4770K). The average frame rate on a decent PC in most areas should be over 90 however. As the map stands right now, Id say its performance compares to Hillbilly Horror and Steamland, but unlike those maps, its only in certain locations. As the map increases in static meshes though, the frame rate could fluxuate a bit lower, but it shouldnt be that much of a difference. If it does get bad, I will find a work around regardless of how drastic to keep the frame rate ideal.)

tldr version: I improved the frame rate a whole lot to be ideally playable.

Anyway! On top of that, I've added quite a lot to this map since last showing it, and decided to give out what I got so far until I finish it. Now that its more playable for everyone now, I can continue working on it and finish it. Still a lot to do, but its far along.

Theres tons of kite routes possible, and some good camping areas you could use as well. The map was designed to be hard on 32 zed count (default), and was designed for kiting mostly, but it does have some camper locations. I just tried to make them uncomfortable and not a breeze. The name will change also later on, but for now its The Bedroom Experiment. Yeah it sounds porny, I didnt realize until much later but its fine for now haha.

Some fun facts about the map:

Map has over 21,000 lego pieces! (individual static meshes. Not really something to brag about on a performance side of things, but on an art side yes).

Map has over 230 anti portals to help with Culling (they are Cull Distanced themselves so they dont all add up and lag it to hell).

Map is almost entirely custom content.

The map is pretty giant and has lots of areas to explore (its also still growing).

Anyway, Im gonna move this to the Beta Release Section and its going to be called Blocked In Blocks AlphaV1