KF-Doom2-Final-V6

[Yoshiro]

From my previous testing of the map I think it will be fine with the vents.

And to RO Sauce, we have nothing against easy maps. And I have in fact instructed people on that before. However there is a point where it becomes too easy where there is little to no chance of the player ever befalling harm.

Take biotics for example. Everybody says it is an easy map. We are fine with that. However we will be spicing up the u shaped room a tad in the near future with a vent.

We do not take into account how "ugly" a map is for white listing, or how easy it is beyond the point of what we consider too easy (as defined above, players having little or no chance of being harmed). What we did to test this in this case was play both biotics and doom2 on hard with level 0 perks.

S281 I know you want to stay as true to the original as possible, which is fine. Just try and be innovative and use mechanics available. In this case the overhead vent which I believe you've already submitted. Another idea you might try is using the hidden rooms to spawn zeds that will pop out on occasion (that room has 2 I believe). I will be personally testing that version of the map with some members of the community unless you would like me to hold off for a new version.

 

[ro_sauce]

ok, here's a hard version of doom2:
http://www.filefront.com/17153379/KF-Doom2map1v07.rom

 

[S281]

S281 I know you want to stay as true to the original as possible, which is fine. Just try and be innovative and use mechanics available. In this case the overhead vent which I believe you've already submitted. Another idea you might try is using the hidden rooms to spawn zeds that will pop out on occasion (that room has 2 I believe). I will be personally testing that version of the map with some members of the community unless you would like me to hold off for a new version.

V7 which rosauce posted is actually a better and more difficult version, with all kinds of zeds dropping from the ceiling. Most likely people will like this version more than the simple vents I put in.

 

[nath2009uk]

V7 which rosauce posted is actually a better and more difficult version, with all kinds of zeds dropping from the ceiling. Most likely people will like this version more than the simple vents I put in.

Yes.
It is actually hard now, tried 2 man on Hard. Would like to see how it would be on 6 man hard in there, with scrakes and stuff dropping at later waves.
Can actually consider it a fun map to play now, and whitelistable.
Wouldn't surprise me if alot of people stopped playing it now though.

The only problems with this map are nothing that's stopping it getting whitelisted. Just a few minor ones like pathing issues where the last few zeds tend to go up to the old law 'room' and stick there.
Also
Lightmap : 32 D:

 

[ro_sauce]

it's just something i did in 5 minutes, i'm not going to waste any more time on it, go ahead and do whatever, i dont care anymore.

 

[Yoshiro]

We are going ahead with version 7 for testing per request.

 

[S281]

Try both versions and which ever one TWI feels matches their desired game play the best can be considered for whitelisting. I think both versions are fun, although I enjoy more of a challenge, so V7 is the one I would personally like to see whitelisted. Although I know not all players enjoy zeds surrounding them all at once.

 

[Falidell]

-personally i find the map boring.... by itself it's only really good with the rest of the doom 2 campaign. i do like the accuracy of the layout and textures tho.


-as far as white-listing goes.. to be or not to be..... to black and white for me...i prefer to live in a more gradient world.. i say white-list with a 90% xp handy-cap. as in you only get 10% xp on this map. or less. so ~0.1 white-list rating.
in other words it's considerably easier then most stock maps so you get less reward on it.

 

[nath2009uk]

-personally i find the map boring.... by itself it's only really good with the rest of the doom 2 campaign. i do like the accuracy of the layout and textures tho.


-as far as white-listing goes.. to be or not to be..... to black and white for me...i prefer to live in a more gradient world.. i say white-list with a 90% xp handy-cap. as in you only get 10% xp on this map. or less. so ~0.1 white-list rating.
in other words it's considerably easier then most stock maps so you get less reward on it.

Did you play the map? All zeds now spawn above the blue room, all the time no matter how close you are to the spawn volumes. And the spawn rate it alot quicker, thus making it alot harder.
Although something tells me the outside area may be camped, it is still a fine map.

 

[Falidell]

granted that tid bit does make it harder as far as gameplay concerns. however i personally still think it's too easy.
i play as a level 6 commando on long hard vanilla.
i played once on vanilla long suicidal with the level 6 commando and lasted until wave 10 got creamed by random 4 fp's
i've also replayed the entire map for 4 of the main areas. my findings:
blueroom is the hardest
outside on the grass is the easiest.
but all in all still too easy.

Clearification NOTE: this is my opinion, i'm not saying it'll be easy for everyone.
i am also saying that my whitelisting preference for this map is my opinion only(probably) mine.

 

[HaTeMe]

I won't play the map now due to all the things removed to whitelist it.

All the things removed? What have been removed exactly? A few weapon spawns? The ability to jump on that edge outside?

As far as I know, nothings been removed. More like added.

You think that all my maps should be removed?

Of course not.

However, blaming an entire community for the whitelist problem doesn't make any sense.

Its a shame that some people in this community of yours have taken such dramatic actions against the whitelist, because like it or not, it DOES give a bad name to the whole BHW community, even tho some members there are good people.

Its been fun testing this map of yours (and Fels) and you seem like a smart person, hopefully that catches up with the rest of the community and we can all stop fighting. Rainbows and flowers.

we went through the entire whitelist to find maps with problems. we went through every stock map looking for issues. then after all that, we were asked to help test maps awaiting approval. after we test, we give our reports. TWI has the FINAL decision on any changes to the whitelist regarding approval/removal.

Yes, and let me clear something out. The reason why Im testing these maps for exploits is to prevent anyone from ruining MY game when Im playing online. I dont really care wether people want to level up quickly by exploiting AS LONG AS they do it on a private server and NOT in public games where it could ruin the fun for everyone else playing there. I cant count how many times Ive tried to play eg. Departed and some nubbie decided to abuse the maps weaknesses and then I died because all the specimens decided to go after me instead, having no backup from the exploiter.

Sadly the core maps are still full of exploits but as far as I know TWI is working on fixing them for the next update or at least in the near future after the update has been released.

So, KEPT does their testing, then TWI looks at the review by KEPT and decides or you test it to confirm? So the issue of being "too easy" but exploit free, wheres that come in to play?

I think TWI doesnt necessarily test the actual exploits we find (correct me if Im wrong), but in case of the map being "too easy" they generally set up a testing session of their own and judge it from there.

For example in case of this err... space themed map which name I cant remmember, most of KEPT members deemed it as too easy but TWI decided it was "hard enough" and whitelisted it dispite of our opinion. So like said, TWI always has the final word and they do not trust our opinion blindly.

 

[Xienen]

Alright guys, lets stop turning this thread into another thread about the Whitelist and KEPT. As has been continually stated, KEPT has no real power. They simply help point out problems to us and we decide what course of action is necessary.

In the case of the Rewhitelisted version of Doom2, I tested it myself upon noticing that over 40 servers were playing the map at once, half of which were the 24/7 BWH servers, but the other half were servers where people had voted for the map. As Tripwire has done with many maps that show as being played very frequently, I decided to jump into a few servers to see why this map was so often played. In the case of a few maps being played to this extent in the past, maps have just been loved(such as Departed was before it became a "core" map). In this case, however, I believe it was because camping out in the Blue Room was almost like playing one of the leveling maps that plagued Killing Floor the day after launch, where an invisible wall stopped the Specimen from getting to you. I decided to test my theory by joining one of the servers and never firing a shot to see if the other players(who were not cooperating at all) would eventually die off due to the increased number of Specimens, but they had no problem with it.

We have tested the new versions of the map and have deemed them both to be worthy of whitelisting, as that room has a bit more difficulty in both versions. Version 6 will be best for "casual" players, such as many of those in the BWH Gaming Community, where Version 7 will be fun for the "hardcore" players due to the big Specimen spawning in the Blue Room as well.

 

[Fel]

We do not take into account how "ugly" a map is for white listing,

It sure seems like HateMe does. Even on the Whitelist Thread, he insults mappers telling them their maps suck

TWI always has the final word and they do not trust our opinion blindly.

Thats cause it seems like your judgment is jaded by opinions you have for the mappers. Thus you go into the map thinking its a crappy noob map and no chance of whtelisting (Without even playing it).

 

[S281]

Cool , glad both versions worked out for most people. I can always make quick tweaks to doom2-final v6 if need be....like remove all the guns, increase zed spawn desirability in the vents(set at 5000 atm, 6000, while sorta the norm, just felt like it would overwhelm too many players). While I wish this thread had been just about the map and gotten far less attention than say several mission maps a few people in the community are working on, glad to see some things are "clearing up".

 

[omarfw]

Thats cause it seems like your judgment is jaded by opinions you have for the mappers. Thus you go into the map thinking its a crappy noob map and no chance of whtelisting (Without even playing it).

One of the only actual requirements of being on the team is to not have any biases towards any maps. Regardless of how you came to this idea of yours that we or certain members whitelist and de-whitelist maps simply based on how much we like the mapper, it is incorrect.

Also, it doesn't matter what Hate posts on the threads here, he posts here as a player not as a kept member. What he posts in his map reviews is what's important. He's allowed to voice any bias opinions he wants here within forum rules.

 

[Xienen]

...He's allowed to voice any bias opinions he wants here within forum rules.

Regardless, his bias would not come into play, because as Yoshiro said, we do not care how ugly the map is. I can also tell you that HaTeMe has never used "the map is ugly" as any reason to not Whitelist the map. He simply points out all the exploits and sometimes adds a comment to the effect of "And the map is ugly anyway", meaning that he doesn't think very many people would want to play it even if it was on the Whitelist, not that it's any reason to not Whitelist it.

Cool , glad both versions worked out for most people. I can always make quick tweaks to doom2-final v6 if need be....like remove all the guns, increase zed spawn desirability in the vents(set at 5000 atm, 6000, while sorta the norm, just felt like it would overwhelm too many players). While I wish this thread had been just about the map and gotten far less attention than say several mission maps a few people in the community are working on, glad to see some things are "clearing up".

We will look even more closely at Version 6 and let you know if the map is "too easy", but from our initial play through, I don't think anything needs to be tweaked further. It played like a good casual map, allowing players to stay more relaxed, but still have to be on their toes a little bit.

 

[gusone]

Can I ask a question? Are we doing Stonehenge tonight?

 

[YoYoBatty]

he insults mappers telling them their maps suck.

Just like you did to Dextronaut. But yes Fel is rite, HaTeMe does criticise almost every map I see suggested to the whitelist. Those maps being ones made by begginners at Unreal Ed!

 

[Xienen]

Just like you did to Dextronaut. But yes Fel is rite, HaTeMe does criticise almost every map I see suggested to the whitelist. Those maps being ones made by begginners at Unreal Ed!

That's a personal problem to be taken up with him directly, not an issue with KEPT. Once again, let's stop derailing this thread, please.

 

[S281]

I was playing the map with some low level players the other day and noticed that it is slightly more challenging. However, players do tend to weld the blue room door and the zeds will pile up to 32 at the door, break it down, and then rush the room, with the occasional crawlers and stalkers sneaking up behind them. I think for any future improvements, the vent spawn desirability could be raised to 6000 and the door break down faster. Other than that, it seems to keep players constantly engaged with the zeds and i did see several lvl 3/4 players get eaten. All the other areas of the map seem good though.