KF 1025 Update
- Thread starter StuntLionRooster
- Start date
Most of the large hurdles are over. Not to sound like an apologist but a lot has been accomplished. Alongside the perks they've added tons of side systems that will make the final product better, and moving forward the wait is shorter and easier with more and more side content like the upcoming gamemodes, workshop, zedconomy and possible bosses or zeds. Also lots of characters, all voiced. It's easy to sit and whine about trivialities, but the game is coming along. You don't need to sit around leaving mopey, melo-dramatic comments.
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Don't worry Yoshiro. The one thing you guys will see is you can never make people happy. It's more fun to complain. I love your work and so do my friends and my wife as well. People will whine and whine about wanting something - then you'll give them that and then they'll be complaining about something else.
Keep up the good work <3
Keep up the good work <3
Indeed, but most update have been related to analytic tools, so right now it does not change the game for us.
I don't know for the others, but for me, when I heard quicker updates, I was hoping for a fix for the support and demo before the release of sharpshooter.
(but two months later, still no real news about skill and weapon of the sharpshooter and it seems the fix for the support and demo will be done later).
This is pretty much how I see it as well. If we look back at when TWI officially announced that Sharpshooter is on the way, the thread was posted a month ago and in all that time, we only know of two weapons (having only seen the model of one of them) and have no idea what the skill tree will be like.
It's not that I don't appreciate the other work that TWI is doing with things like the workshop and the analytic tools but for me, I just feel that right now the game is lacking a little in variety, mostly to do with the range of perks available and also because there always seems to be a general reliance on having certain perks more than others (this is the case at least when playing on higher difficulties).
With 7 perks, most games I see will either have 1 different perk each or 2 of the same one or two perks. But with 10 perks to choose from, it would certainly spice things up and give the game more replay value as it would allow for a lot more different combinations. We're all so used to generally seeing the same perks over and over again, but we haven't yet tasted or really even considered how the game would be if say 3 or 4 of the perks which are currently available now, are absent in one game because at least one each of all the others were selected.
Variety in terms of maps is fine and I don't think that will ever be a problem seeing as TWI will push more out and there are folks out there making their own. But in my mind, the remaining perks are the most crucial thing to work on because they are the missing content that is the most directly applicable to actual gameplay. And once all the perks are out, balance and quality-of-life updates should in theory be better as there is more data to work with and you can suss out which perks are being used the most/least, which ones require further revision, etc.
Now that's some bs if i ever read one. I've never enjoyed complaining, and i rarely do complain. We're all humans, everyone makes mistakes, and the expectations of one person might hugely differ from one another.
But let's face it: this game isn't moving forward, like AT ALL. Well that's not true obviously but it feels that way.
And even that would not be an issue if we'd get any information. See, i'm backing this game with my EA purchase so the Devs have time to create something great, and there's a lot of potential. Naturally though i'd like to know what the freak is happening, why they're taking half a year between two huge updates for example and only fix some minor bugs in between, mostly stuff i haven't even seen once in 170 hours of playing.
But the only thing we get is a number change for an issue that is known for how long, months, half a year? I mean, it's EA for hell's sake, how about TWI plays with some numbers if they're not sure what to do, just to test the waters? If all game designers are bound to do something else, i'm absolutely sure that there'd be more than enough willing community members that'd gladly do this job for them if they gave them access. Balance isn't achieved by hitting the sweet spot right away, or rather it rarely is, but rather by trying out things until you have a good balance. And there sure as HELL are more than enough things you could change for the better just by fine tuning some numbers, like the costs for Support weapons & ammo. This isn't rocket science.
But i know how this'll pan out. We'll get a somewhat bigger update at one point that'll tweak some numbers, and then we'll have to wait for another 6 months until some other issue that came up will get adressed.
The only developer i know of that takes remotely close as long to balance some minor numbers is IceFrog/Valve for Dota/Dota2. But even here the most pressing and obvious issues get resolved in like 1-2 weeks top, after he has gathered some data and tried out some stuff with the internal beta testing team. And you know who's in that Beta testing team? Community members.
Sorry but i just can't comprehend this. There are times when complaining is fruitless and unfair, and there are times when complaining is the only way for you to express that you feel that something sure as hell really is off here. And for me, at this point i feel like TWI have given up on KF2, more or less. Maybe they ran into too much issues, maybe there's a cooler/more profitable/more interesting project in the way, maybe the game gives them less revenue than expected and EA wasn't such a big success as they've hoped for. Or maybe i'm just completely wrong here and they're just one of those rare specimen that rather take 3 months more time to work something out to perfection rather than shipping a product that MIGHT have some flaw SOMEWHERE (perhaps! you never know, right?) - i mean, after all their base product is on AAA-Level, no doubt about it, there's just not enough content.
Maybe they just don't want to communicate and think their time's better spent working on the game. That's fine, but then please communicate by taking action. DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING. At this point i really don't care what they do as long as they do something. But there's nothing.
So yeah, this leads me to the conclusion that they've simply given up. I guess there are some people are still working on the game so i'm sure they'll fulfill their promise eventually, but this feels far from a dedicated team working on something to get the job done. I'd be far more understanding if they'd still be working on the engine for example, but everything feels really finished and polished at this point already, so it seems it's just a matter of producing more content. And they're taking insanely long for that, really.
Medic should help but it should not make or break a team without one, especially on hard. As for low level people playing on hard, well, yeah. That's the point of hard. It's a notch up above normal to get you used to the game before you try the real challenges.
Oh no, they removed the numbers from the sliders?? I remember my mouse sensitivity by number, and it took me so long to find a comfortable mouse sensitivity in kf2. I really hope they bring the numbers back because when I get my new pc I don't want to have to go through the trouble of getting my sensitivity back to normal
I mean I guess I could get the sensitivity out of the .ini file, but still. Numbers on the slider would just make it easier, and there was no reason to even remove them in the first place.
ahcos > I don't know if the game is dying or not, but, I also think there are a lot of communication problem.
Now, I know that TWI does not want to "communicate" real date, in order to take their time... but there are a lot of problem with it.
Because, as a result, each time they "announce" something, we think that the release will be very soon... and we are wrong.
For instance, when someone tell me :
- Sharpshooter should have been included in the Patriarch update ; I think : Patriarch is almost finished, and we will get it in a month.
- We are working on demo in the near future => I think : Oh, they are going to fix it soon.
- We are going to do more update between big patch => I think : Oh, they are going to fix demo and support soon.
But, no...
Instead, they should say some stuff like :
- We are working on sharpshooter and polishing the weapon/Skill. At the moment, we do not expect to release the perk before at least two months.
At least, this way, we know that we will need to wait a long time instead of expecting something soon.
Now, I know that TWI does not want to "communicate" real date, in order to take their time... but there are a lot of problem with it.
Because, as a result, each time they "announce" something, we think that the release will be very soon... and we are wrong.
For instance, when someone tell me :
- Sharpshooter should have been included in the Patriarch update ; I think : Patriarch is almost finished, and we will get it in a month.
- We are working on demo in the near future => I think : Oh, they are going to fix it soon.
- We are going to do more update between big patch => I think : Oh, they are going to fix demo and support soon.
But, no...
Instead, they should say some stuff like :
- We are working on sharpshooter and polishing the weapon/Skill. At the moment, we do not expect to release the perk before at least two months.
At least, this way, we know that we will need to wait a long time instead of expecting something soon.
This is a great point - it all comes down to managing expectations. By providing some sort of timetable we, as a community, at least know what the general plan is.
I was one of those and even with its downsides still think it's better. Thank you.
The bolded sentiment is why I'm always wary of people demanding rapid balance changes. That tiny sample size is not how to determine what is broken and what is not.
edit: It's like when a new fighting game comes out, and people demand nerfs in the first week.
Yeah, I'm not sure why they removed the reference numbers but they've been gone since the last small patch.
I know that other people have asked why they did this but afaik TWI still hasn't given an answer to anyone who's asked the question. TBH it seems like a very console-ish move, but it could have just been an accident.
If nothing else can be inferred from the general community sentiment, it's that ~3 months is about the upper limit of their patience for content updates 
the balance is broken since the demo and firebug update. Its about 8 months ago. They could gather data from playing/testing the game or watching a good streamer.
They just changed some minor numbers to fix Hans (decreased damage by 30%) and it took them more than 6 months...
Seriously, when you play against Hans, you instantly see whats wrong with him (gas does 3 damage, melee about 80 damage). Same tests work on different aspects (MWG kills Sc under 10secs in HoE 6p, AA-12 needs about 1min, when he survives( and AA-12 cost even more than MWG)).
Its not some kind of science to understand that.
Maybe i get a warning for this, but there is no bad intentions in this are all a facts, dont read as a complain its just critic.
Since the gunslinger was released, playing medic is viable again thanks to the high damage output of dual magnums. If you can't play medic, you can't play anything. Gunslinger was released in december, 3 months passed now, and what did we get in updates so far? Minor tweaks, useless nerfs and now the "balance" to hans, ONLY in hard difficulty. Despite players complaining about hans broken melee damage since september, we got this kind of feedback 6 months later.
It looks like the link between the comunity and the devs is non exist. For example you try to implement this analytics system NOW, almost a year since the release of early access, when the playerbase is lower than ever, what kind of data do you think you'll get with such a tiny population? And if you arrive to something it will end up being what the playerbase has been trying to tell you for MONTHS
Fix hans melee
Fix the patriarch not shooting where he is aiming.
Nerf skrake's damage
Buff FP's damage
Remove the permarage mechanic
No one is using support because it has NO DAMAGE SCALLING AT ALL, ITS USELESS
Meanwhile at TWI "Oh, i know what player's may like, since they die so much in HoE, lets make an auto difficulty system so the casual palyers won't die so much, even on HoE!"
We are not asking too much changes in game , just fixes and we are not seeing too much effort in this issues.
I love this game , i love to play this with friends i dont want to see this game fall into the oblivion just for minor details like this.
Since the gunslinger was released, playing medic is viable again thanks to the high damage output of dual magnums. If you can't play medic, you can't play anything. Gunslinger was released in december, 3 months passed now, and what did we get in updates so far? Minor tweaks, useless nerfs and now the "balance" to hans, ONLY in hard difficulty. Despite players complaining about hans broken melee damage since september, we got this kind of feedback 6 months later.
It looks like the link between the comunity and the devs is non exist. For example you try to implement this analytics system NOW, almost a year since the release of early access, when the playerbase is lower than ever, what kind of data do you think you'll get with such a tiny population? And if you arrive to something it will end up being what the playerbase has been trying to tell you for MONTHS
Fix hans melee
Fix the patriarch not shooting where he is aiming.
Nerf skrake's damage
Buff FP's damage
Remove the permarage mechanic
No one is using support because it has NO DAMAGE SCALLING AT ALL, ITS USELESS
Meanwhile at TWI "Oh, i know what player's may like, since they die so much in HoE, lets make an auto difficulty system so the casual palyers won't die so much, even on HoE!"
We are not asking too much changes in game , just fixes and we are not seeing too much effort in this issues.
I love this game , i love to play this with friends i dont want to see this game fall into the oblivion just for minor details like this.
I was responding directly to the statement that I had indicated. So any sort of talk about how long we've known about some issues is irrelevant to what I was trying to point out.
Obviously, I'm presuming that you have played more than a few rounds on HOE. You have opinions derived from hours and hours of playtime.
You bring up a bunch of those concrete examples, but I think you're missing the point of what I'm suggesting. It's not even necessarily about you, I was focusing just on the attitude of that statement.
It's more of...let's say sharp comes out tomorrow. I hope you play at least more than 4 rounds before making a judgment on what should be nerfed or buffed within the sharp loadout. At the very least, wait until simplecat comes out with some info on weapon properties that aren't immediately recognizable lol