Key to Kills is tweaking

[LightsabeR]

Speaking as the "disadvantaged" gamer you describe here (and speaking ONLY for myself), I find it distasteful to do so, personally. We can agree to disagree, but I think that if I were to go that route then I would get less enjoyment out of the game because my performance is due not to my own ability to play the game as it was presented to me but more the result of artificially removing the barriers that are meant to be overcome. That's my view, but again, we can peacefully disagree.

Well, whether or not its tasteful is another matter. But doesn't buying gaming peripherals also artificially remove those barriers that you speak of?

For example mice that have on-the-fly sensitivity adjustment buttons, so if you're trying to pixel hunt you can quickly go to low sens and then back to high sens for CQC.

Or gaming headsets which are specifically designed for FPS games that allow you to more precisely locate enemies solely by sounds.

It's not a matter of not realizing that people gain advantages in multiple ways. It's about deciding for myself how far I'm willing to go to get that advantage. The tweaks in my sig are a step I, myself, won't take.

But buying several hundred dollars worth of gaming gear to gain an advantage would be something you'd consider?

One in the same, in my view. I consider the concealment offered by shadows and foliage to be a game mechanic just as much as cover is. Artificially removing them is dumbing down the game, in my opinion.

Which is why I said it's a good point. Still tho, I don't see it as exactly the same.

What competitive gamers take issue with are the various perks and killstreak rewards that you can see in the recent CoD games.

Most competitive gamers, at least in the fast paced FPS games, prefer a "pure" experience. The less random factors there are, the more skill comes into play.

 

[Verluste]

A lot of people need to do this. I would hardly profess to being much more than a 'competent' player of RO/RO2, as I came to RO late, however the amount of people who just sit back is astounding.

Was playing fallen fighters with a mate (I think it is Fallen Fighters - has the big open square in the middle...) and he was using the sniper, so he was on the top floor of a building on our side. I had an MG and was next to him, trying to supress people enough that we could move in and take the point. But no one left the building, with the exception of maybe 2 people.

I eventually swapped to a squad leader because none of the other SL's seemed to realise they had smoke, and eventually got to the capzone. And then realised people still weren't with me. I probably got a .25 k/d ratio in that game, yet ironically enough finished near the top of the team beacuse of the extra points I got for kills in the capzone etc.

I do think stats can ruin the game a bit, I like having them, but I'm just as happy not knowing, meaning I, and hopefully the whole team, can just focus on the objective without caring about how many kills we get...

I always picked SL in ROOST to smoke the campers out in Danzig windows -on the russian team-.
I dont know what is wrong with people that will not play the game as intended.

 

[Icey_Pain]

Thaelyn,

If you think that tweaking the config is what the competitive scene is all about, then you are simply mistaken. Competitive strives for equality, as in an equal chance for a team to win. Graphical tweaks can help achieve that, but they never ever set the bar the way you seem to look at it.

The fact that you put it in your signature means that you look at it with more hate and misunderstanding than actually trying to understand what the fun in competitive gaming is.

I'll try to explain:

Competitive gaming is of course about winning, but winning is in no way the antithesis of having fun. To win over the other team one must display a superior form of teamwork and tactics where communication is of utmost importance. Which is what many people consider fun, playing with others and not only against others.

The thing that prevents a fair win is basically everything that makes winning random. At the end of the day, you want to know you(and your team) won because you(and your team) were better, not because you had some unbalanced advantage.

And that is the absolute opposite of what you think competitive gaming is, which is sad to be honest, because you could be having so much fun.

 

[Maizel]

I think true skill in a game is defined by excelling within the confines as the game is supposed to be.

Not just getting rid of everything that makes a game hard.

 

[LightsabeR]

Well said Icey_Pain, well said. I actually just noticed his signature and was about to make a similar point about it.

 

[Apex.]

the AU community are actually thanking me for it, as most of them said they couldn't play the game because of how dark and gloomy it was (and laggy) sure its good for the daddy gamers that love shiny "new" things in games..

what they seem to have failed to realise, is i made it for the competitive guys to use in ladder organizations that allow it, not for pub use, as i recommended not to use as people whine and are usually in pub just for fun, i myself don't even use in pub, however i use it in scrims, as im admin of the ladder organisation over here, i've shared it with everyone participating, so everybody has the option to use it, making it fair and balanced.

the scrims i've had so far with everyone using the same settings (pretty much my tweaked config) have been epic, its down to tactics and team work and aim, sure its the same thing on default.. but it will be more random cause of all the darkness everywhere, eliminating the dark spots makes it more competitive.

 

[Machete234]

Yeah, but you lose all immersion by playing a 1999 game
Graphics aren't that important, but blur effect, shadows and such stuff really add to the atmosphere.

Blur and DOF make me feel drunk sorry thats not atmosphere or realistic.
My eyes might have DOF but when I look at something its gone.
When I look at the monitor and the place where i look stays unsharp then its not realistic.

 

[Thaelyn]

Thaelyn,

If you think that tweaking the config is what the competitive scene is all about, then you are simply mistaken. Competitive strives for equality, as in an equal chance for a team to win. Graphical tweaks can help achieve that, but they never ever set the bar the way you seem to look at it.

The fact that you put it in your signature means that you look at it with more hate and misunderstanding than actually trying to understand what the fun in competitive gaming is.

While I may, indeed, have some misconceptions about competitive gaming, please don't misunderstand my signature. The sig is my statement that I don't believe the tweaks displayed in that thread (the brightness and gamma, specifically) are intended to "level" the playing field. Rather, I believe they are an attempt to tip the scales, which is, in my view, not in keeping with the spirit of fair competition. There is no hate involved, just a personal choice to not pursue what I consider to be an unfair advantage. I'm sorry it came across otherwise to you. I had hoped that the rational discussion we're having here would help to lead you to a different conclusion.

I'll try to explain:

Competitive gaming is of course about winning, but winning is in no way the antithesis of having fun.

I whole-heartedly agree. As I said before, it's the win at all costs, even if that means doing something on the "shady" side approach that I disagree with. I will gladly admit, though, that I may be basing my opinion on a small subset of the competitive gaming community. You would be very hard pressed, however, to convince me that such attitudes do not exist within that community, as I've seen far too many attempts to justify things that are plainly "below board" with the "I do it to be competitive" excuse.

To win over the other team one must display a superior form of teamwork and tactics where communication is of utmost importance. Which is what many people consider fun, playing with others and not only against others.

Again, I agree completely. It's not the principle of competitive gaming I have issue with. It's the lengths some people will go in order to be competitive.

The thing that prevents a fair win is basically everything that makes winning random. At the end of the day, you want to know you(and your team) won because you(and your team) were better, not because you had some unbalanced advantage.

Which is my point. This is how it should be. I just believe that the tweaks in my sig fly in the face of that basic principle. Again, we may disagree and part as friends here.

And that is the absolute opposite of what you think competitive gaming is, which is sad to be honest, because you could be having so much fun.

Perhaps I have been shown a poor example of the mindset of the competitive gamer. It's entirely possible and I freely admit that I've been wrong many, many times before. With regard to the brightness/foliage tweaks in RO2, however, I remain unconvinced.

 

[LightsabeR]

Apex, if your goal is to help the competitive scene, then why call your thread "possibly the most controversial thread on TW forums!" instead of "Tweaks for competitive gamers"?

Seems to me that you're just trying really hard to create controversy and arguments, yet I can't quite understand why.

 

[Apex.]

@Thaelyn


read my post above, the matches i play in with the config, everyone has the same visibility, so its down to teamwork, tactics and aim, and less random match results with all the darkness on default settings.

@lightsabeR, even if i wrote that id have daddy gamers whinging about it not being competitive.

 

[Thaelyn]

Icey_Pain and LightsabeR,

After my last reply I took a step back and tried to view my signature objectively. I can see how the wording might come across more aggressively than I intended. I hope this rewording will help to alleviate that.

 

[Apex.]

but there, i did it for you, but you got to admit, it possibly is the most controversial thread on these forums

 

[MissionMaximus]

wouldn't bother with these threads anymore, the daddy gamers whinge about everything.

If you can't play the game the way it was intended to be played...be it because of performance or just because you suck maybe you should update your PC to be able to play modern games or go back to XBOX.

I would guess you probably use other hacks/exploits as well. Morally, I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would want to cheat or find exploits in playing videogames. I guess you probably stuff balled up socks in your pants too.

 

[Apex.]

If you can't play the game the way it was intended to be played...be it because of performance or just because you suck maybe you should update your PC to be able to play modern games or go back to XBOX.

I would guess you probably use other hacks/exploits as well. Morally I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would want to cheat or find exploits in playing videogames. I guess you probably stuff balled up socks in your pants too.

all i read there was "herp derp herp derp herp derp, Im clueless and have no idea"

you obviously have no clue on competitive gaming, I DID NOT MAKE IT FOR PUBLIC SERVERS, BUT FOR PLAYERS THAT PLAY IN LADDERS, IF THE LADDER ORGANISATION ALLOWS IT .

i find it funny though, people saying i suck yet i've easily been ontop of scoreboard on default settings countless times, as i actually go for objectives and kill while doing it.

 

[Goralski]

A competitive game in which you gain an advantage by turning graphics down is faulty.

Amen!

Unless all participants got equal settings, if not, I can call it exploiting and unfair to other participants.
In my understanding, people should use all possible visuals in competitive matches. For example: you got shadows to use them for concealment.
So in basic you should use what this game have to offer, dumbing the graphics is good as dumbing the challenge in competition.

 

[Minstrel]

i hate people that turn off graphics just because they see easily the enemy

You can hardly see **** in this game even with everything tweaked it is still like you are playing in a fogbank viewed through a vaseline smeared camera lens. If you could change the config settings so you could have bright skins then you might actually have something to complain about.

 

[Apex.]

lol @ vaseline smeared camera, good one minstrel

 

[Thaelyn]

@Thaelyn


read my post above, the matches i play in with the config, everyone has the same visibility, so its down to teamwork, tactics and aim, and less random match results with all the darkness on default settings.

I did go back and read your post, Apex. And to be honest, if you're in a ladder match and everyone is using those settings, then I have absolutely no justifiable reason to have a problem with it. I will be perfectly honest with you, though. I've avoided replying directly to you in this thread because of a post you made in your original (locked) thread and I am trying to avoid direct conflict with you on it. I'm looking for it, but haven't found it just yet. It was something along the lines of "I don't use this in pubs because I believe in fair play. I only use it in ladder matches"

Now, I may be misunderstanding you here, but that reads to me as "I believe in fair play unless there's something to be gained." If I've misread then you have my sincere apologies. My take on what you said, though, makes it very difficult for me to believe that these tweaks are anything but an attempt to tip the scales. Again, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, but that was my take on it and why I've not responded to you directly as I feared I couldn't do so without the discussion devolving into an outright flame war.

 

[MissionMaximus]

You can hardly see **** in this game even with everything tweaked it is still like you are playing in a fogbank viewed through a vaseline smeared camera lens. If you could change the config settings so you could have bright skins then you might actually have something to complain about.

MOVEMENT is the key plus I like the gritty nature of the graphics and looks sweet on Ultra at 2560x1440.

 

[Apex.]

@Thaelyn
i have two configs, my tweaked one (for ladder matches) and a default one (for public servers)

i've shared my config on the organisations site i admin, so people have the option to use it, so far pretty much everyone that participating in the ladder is using it.. so really, nobody gets the advantage, as we all have perfect visibility.

EDIT: not gonna bother using the quote tag lol, im to used to highlighting text i wanna quote and hitting quote to just quote that part.