Ive seen all these things quoted on public servers so I have no idea what your talking about tbh...
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Just some points that bug me.
- Thread starter Scarf Ace
- Start date
Ive seen all these things quoted on public servers so I have no idea what your talking about tbh...
Did you make this up? Check the suggestion forum of RO1 & RO2. I also agree with OP.
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Yes, tons of fragmented suggestions that a couple of people really want and the rest of the population are lukewarm or completely unresponsive about. If you look at a COD forum you'd only see even more suggestions of all sorts (weapons, new mechanics, game modes, story changes), does that mean the hardcore COD wants innovation and change more than RO fans? Obviously no, and its also true the other way around. You guys just enjoy playing up the "COD n00b, we're much better" card too much, when the reality it much less black and white
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I suppose it did sound somewhat biased. I was trying to convey that the mainstream FPS market wants a game that meets all their expectations and preferences. Why would they bother with a game that is only superficially similar to their choice titles. Indeed, the "hardcore" crowd wants the same just tailored to their own specific expectations and preferences.
I guess I am just fed up with this drive to appeal to mainstream markets in the gaming industry. Mainstream tastes are excessively kowtowed to by many developers. Niche markets are told to just shut up and stop whining when their beloved franchises are altered into a far less desirable form. Admittedly, this would be a fairly sound business strategy if it worked. I don't believe it does or ever will, it's a recipe for commercial failure. Had the devs made a sequel to RO with their core fanbase in mind, I bet that they would have saw as much or more revenue and today's RO2 population would be significantly larger.
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Does that mean the RO fans don't want any change? You made the claim
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post.
My proposition is
The hardcore RO player doesn't want any more or any less change than the hardcore COD players. The diehard RO community is no more of a vanguard of innovation or progress than die hard COD community.
There are many other reasons to jab at COD players, but this is a rather weak one. Also I thought this was the entire point of the OP, RO had a good formula, no need to mess with it by making changes.
Of course RO players want change. There's changes that pretty much anyone can agree would be great. Smoother controls, better comms (3D VOIP!), stuff like that.
I fully agree. There are a number of games that have succeeded in recent times through uncompromising uniqueness.
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If I implied RO players don't want change at all then I apologize. But the fact is its rather foolish to feel some unwarranted smugness saying COD players apparently don't want change, when its no more true. I know its hard to get out of the whole "Good vs Evil" mentality when COD is pretty much the butt of all jokes in gaming, but the truth isn't that straightforward
I can think of ArmA .. and some indie releases but thats sort of the entire point of indie games.
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Here are some figures of how many games were sold in 2012 for PC RO2:
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/41133/red-orchestra-2-heroes-of-stalingrad/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/41133/red-orchestra-2-heroes-of-stalingrad/
I agree with the action mode stuff and etc. But I disagree about the progression system.
Demotivating? Yeah right.
For me it is motivating. The reason I ended up loving some weapons like the SVT-40, PPSh and many others is because of the unlocks.
I love spending my time trying to get a bayonet or drum magazines, I get used to that weapon I end up liking it. I never liked PPSh until I had to use it to get myself the drum magazines. Now it is my favorite weapon, period.
I like having a hero skin, I enjoy that the player character looks more uniqe as they progress through ranks.
When I was new to RO2 I looked up to the heroes and people that had unlocked stuff, or advanced very far into the game. I thought to myself "One day I will be like this and help new players"
Demotivating? Yeah right.
For me it is motivating. The reason I ended up loving some weapons like the SVT-40, PPSh and many others is because of the unlocks.
I love spending my time trying to get a bayonet or drum magazines, I get used to that weapon I end up liking it. I never liked PPSh until I had to use it to get myself the drum magazines. Now it is my favorite weapon, period.
I like having a hero skin, I enjoy that the player character looks more uniqe as they progress through ranks.
When I was new to RO2 I looked up to the heroes and people that had unlocked stuff, or advanced very far into the game. I thought to myself "One day I will be like this and help new players"
The only change the "diehard" (I put quotations since I've been playing since RO mod, before a lot of so called "RO1 vets" we have on these forums) crowd wants to make to RO2 is to turn it into RO1.
They want to:
- Remove SL spawn
- Remove progression
- etc, etc, etc.
I don't know why people are still whinging about progression. We have classic mode...go play that.
Oh wait...95% of the playerbase prefers realism mode. How about that
That fact alone should put an end to the whinging about progression and SL spawning. Perhaps the OP is unfamiliar with classic mode. I recommend that he try it and stick to it if he hates progression that freakin much.
I tire of seeing the same characters say the same things over and over again.
Well, I'm certainly grateful Classic was made, but Classic is not defined by its lack of progression and spawn on SL. And it's a bit too easy to conclude everyone that plays Realism prefers progression and spawn on SL. Ie, people may not like those things but still prefer Realism over Classic for other reasons...
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Classic mode is defined by 3 things, 2 of which I mentioned in my post. The 3 things are:
- Lack of SL spawn (mentioned)
- All attributes at L0 (mentioned)
- More restricted movement and higher sway
And it is NOT a "bit too easy to conclude." I would argue that its a bit too easy to argue what you did. This is because servers HAVE the option of turning off progression, they HAVE the option of having "realism" stamina and classic "sway" and some servers do (RGN comes to mind, I'm sure Mike Nomad can step in and explain their custom game mode or Catindahat who runs the very excellent Australian servers).
However, by far the most popular servers run realism as is. Its a bit too easy to argue that they are popular simply because of "inertia." No...they are popular because people prefer it.
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Let's not kid ourselves. Most server admins are reluctant to run any custom settings. Either because they don't know the settings exist or how to tweak them (for example, some setting do the opposite of what they claim), or either because it unranks the server (spawn on SL comes to mind) or either because they fear it would alienate their player base. And then there is the fact that a lot of players will pick Realism because of its name.
I applaud Mike Nomad/RGN for taking this step with the custom settings though, and it pleases my earlier plea for such server settings have found some ground.
However, the default mode will always be the most popular, certainly if it has an nice name like Realism, and certainly compared to the quite unappealing name Classic.
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You know those figures are completely wrong, right?
As a private company the only people that know the exact sales of RO2 (on Steam, retail etc.) are in TWI. But anyone who followed the Humble Bundle a few weeks back would know that more than that many were sold in the bundle alone.
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Thread too long ; Didn't read it all. Skimmed most of the OP.
Besides the slow level of content development, I like RO2 just as it is.
I don't care about Action Mode or Classic Mode but will play them if there's no good Realism servers available when I am playing.
I liked the progression system since the first day I played it, but had worries before that. I was thinking it was going to be like a BF progression system. RO2's system is no where as slow, nor is it completely unfair against new players, with the exception of a few very minor things I'm sure some could nit pick over to make themselves sound more right in their position.
I wouldn't cry if it was removed, but I don't see a justified reason to remove it at this stage, nor do I see TW removing it especially after they spent a good deal of time, money and man power into getting it to work.
Almost every other FPS out there has a similar system in place.
Hell, Chivalry has it and I never once came across players complaining about their unlock system or how people level up..... And certainly not at the level of bickering I see players in here go on with over RO2's system.
Don't like the system?
Play Classic Mode or stick to unranked servers.
Want to try out the weapons and unlocks you don't have?
Play an offline match and console command the unlock into your hands to try it out.
The progression system isn't going anywhere, it's time to move on.
Besides the slow level of content development, I like RO2 just as it is.
I don't care about Action Mode or Classic Mode but will play them if there's no good Realism servers available when I am playing.
I liked the progression system since the first day I played it, but had worries before that. I was thinking it was going to be like a BF progression system. RO2's system is no where as slow, nor is it completely unfair against new players, with the exception of a few very minor things I'm sure some could nit pick over to make themselves sound more right in their position.
I wouldn't cry if it was removed, but I don't see a justified reason to remove it at this stage, nor do I see TW removing it especially after they spent a good deal of time, money and man power into getting it to work.
Almost every other FPS out there has a similar system in place.
Hell, Chivalry has it and I never once came across players complaining about their unlock system or how people level up..... And certainly not at the level of bickering I see players in here go on with over RO2's system.
Don't like the system?
Play Classic Mode or stick to unranked servers.
Want to try out the weapons and unlocks you don't have?
Play an offline match and console command the unlock into your hands to try it out.
The progression system isn't going anywhere, it's time to move on.
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Oh man. Where do I begin...
Do you realise that you called the admins of THE most popular RO2 servers ignorant? I'm sorry, but the admins of 2FJG and TWB know EXACTLY what they're doing.
Do you hear yourself? My god. Of course, why didn't I think of it before! The only thing wrong with classic is its "unappealing name" and if ONLY "classic" mode was called "Hardcore realism" or some such crap, people would flock to it! And I'm deluding myself...
Do you realise that you called the admins of THE most popular RO2 servers ignorant? I'm sorry, but the admins of 2FJG and TWB know EXACTLY what they're doing.
Yes...and people don't like unranked servers...because...guess what, they like progression.
It would alienate their playerbase. Their playerbase likes progression and realism mode AS IS.
Do you hear yourself? My god. Of course, why didn't I think of it before! The only thing wrong with classic is its "unappealing name"
and if ONLY "classic" mode was called "Hardcore realism" or some such crap, people would flock to it! And I'm deluding myself...Woah!? I so disagree. I think you miss the whole point of any game.
I play the game for fun, for the challenge and teamwork. If my team wins the round I feel I achieved something.
To me the leveling system is pointless. It gives the already more experienced players another advantage.
I play football with my mates for fun on the pitch and on the PS3. To enjoy the time spent counts nothing for you?
I have to agree completely. I've played countless hours of HOS and RS and while I love both (RS the most), I'm so sick of companies mirroring each other thinking it's a great sales idea. Maybe for some games, yes, but RO2 is definitely not the series to implement this in. TWI is not being unique, they are not being creative, they are copying this 'carrot on a stick' BS from every other game.
WHO on earth says that has to be the new standard? If you love that crap, stick with MMORPGs and COD/BF3. As others have mentioned, Counter-Strike has remained insanely popular for years and I myself, played it for yeaaaars. Why? It's freaking good. There were no unlocks or virtual treadmills to run on. Everyone was equal starting out, letting skill and some luck ultimately decide the fate of the match. Not once did I say, "damn this is pointless, wish I had to unlock ****." I agree change is a good thing in keeping up with the times, but uhhh... this is not the answer.
What worries me is the fact that even though myself and others already bought RS, TWI might see that the game is selling anyway even though people like us are fighting the worthless system, and stick with what they're doing. I hope you guys (TWI) don't stick just to sales, but see that you need to get out of the mainstream garbarge we're feeding our youth and stay unique.
I weep for gamers in these younger and upcoming generations. They'll never know fair and honest gaming. They are hammered with DLC, unlocks, treadmills, etc. What's even sadder is that they LIKE it, or so they think. Why? Because that's mostly all they know these days. They don't know they had/could have the option to get all the content they deserve in a game by paying one price. They don't know they can say no to companies by not throwing cash at them.
At the end of the day, unlocks & progression are bad in this game. Cosmetic options, I think, would be a much better option to lean towards. Give players the option of different skins for different classes. Give the uniforms and weapons varying levels of cleanliness/dirtiness (all this at the selection screen, not a bunch of hoops to jump through to get there). I think Counter-Strike would have been boring if players couldn't choose a faction to play as. Partly why I stopped playing because I hate CS:GO and the direction they took. I don't have the answers, just strong opinions and some ideas.
WHO on earth says that has to be the new standard? If you love that crap, stick with MMORPGs and COD/BF3. As others have mentioned, Counter-Strike has remained insanely popular for years and I myself, played it for yeaaaars. Why? It's freaking good. There were no unlocks or virtual treadmills to run on. Everyone was equal starting out, letting skill and some luck ultimately decide the fate of the match. Not once did I say, "damn this is pointless, wish I had to unlock ****." I agree change is a good thing in keeping up with the times, but uhhh... this is not the answer.
What worries me is the fact that even though myself and others already bought RS, TWI might see that the game is selling anyway even though people like us are fighting the worthless system, and stick with what they're doing. I hope you guys (TWI) don't stick just to sales, but see that you need to get out of the mainstream garbarge we're feeding our youth and stay unique.
I weep for gamers in these younger and upcoming generations. They'll never know fair and honest gaming. They are hammered with DLC, unlocks, treadmills, etc. What's even sadder is that they LIKE it, or so they think. Why? Because that's mostly all they know these days. They don't know they had/could have the option to get all the content they deserve in a game by paying one price. They don't know they can say no to companies by not throwing cash at them.
At the end of the day, unlocks & progression are bad in this game. Cosmetic options, I think, would be a much better option to lean towards. Give players the option of different skins for different classes. Give the uniforms and weapons varying levels of cleanliness/dirtiness (all this at the selection screen, not a bunch of hoops to jump through to get there). I think Counter-Strike would have been boring if players couldn't choose a faction to play as. Partly why I stopped playing because I hate CS:GO and the direction they took. I don't have the answers, just strong opinions and some ideas.