Just came back from Arma II OA.

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Poerisija

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2009
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Right. Arma II is a realistic game, isn't it?

Guess what? There's the zoom, guns don't have much recoil and there's no sway unless you've ran for a good while before aiming and even then it goes away quickly AND you can control breathing. Overall aiming was more accurate than in RO2, but modern optics on the guns (and modern guns of course) add to that - but here comes the thing : people shot many times towards a single guy and there were firefights with plenty of misses. People in Arma 2 are slower and more clumsy than people in RO. Do you know why a lot of shots missed?

Because in general those shots were made from above 200 meters. If we had bigger maps in RO, you'd see there's no need to artificially weaken the guns or massively deduct player accuracy due to everyone being too accurate - it's more about stamina not having any effect and small maps than anything else.
 

boogada

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 4, 2011
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It is mostly the ranges, but OA also makes you a LOT more inaccurate if you're fatigued from sprinting or under suppression. But even with that, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference if you're fighting under 100m.
 

burninglegionx

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2011
29
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And I think the bigger and more open maps are actually better for in-game performance (and hopefully less stuttering) than cluttered and unoptimized map (like station).
 

vyyye

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 13, 2011
333
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I've been wishing for bigger maps since release, the current game modes and maps are the only issues really keeping my enjoyment out of the game. I can live with semi-autos and assault rifles, servers can tamper with that after all, but with the respawn-die-respawn-die feel of TE combined with tiny maps? Nah, not my cup of tea.
Won't care about CD until it's about defending a small village from an assault coming from the horizon either.

I have no doubts that RO2 will be my GOTY when the mod community starts pumping out better (subjective) maps, but until then I probably won't play it.
 

Cyper

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2011
1,291
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Right. Arma II is a realistic game, isn't it?

Guess what? There's the zoom, guns don't have much recoil and there's no sway unless you've ran for a good while before aiming and even then it goes away quickly AND you can control breathing. Overall aiming was more accurate than in RO2, but modern optics on the guns (and modern guns of course) add to that - but here comes the thing : people shot many times towards a single guy and there were firefights with plenty of misses. People in Arma 2 are slower and more clumsy than people in RO. Do you know why a lot of shots missed?

Because in general those shots were made from above 200 meters. If we had bigger maps in RO, you'd see there's no need to artificially weaken the guns or massively deduct player accuracy due to everyone being too accurate - it's more about stamina not having any effect and small maps than anything else.

This is true. And since arma is a combat simulator we can all say that this is the most accurate weaponhandling we can find in a videogame nowdays. But here is the thing.

BUT: This doesn't mean the weaponhandling in RO2 is fine as it is.

This doesn't mean that neither the weaponhandling or the gameplay itself is realistic in RO2. It's rather the opposite. Arma 2 have TrackIR 5. The weapons handle a lot more realistic and natural than in RO2. They move smoother, and they got both a dead zone and a float zone. This means that you can move your weapon without moving your body and you can even move your head to the side without moving your weapon. While you aim you wont have this robotic aiming like in RO2. If you're hit in the arm it will greatly affect your aim. If you get hit in the leg you may have to crawl if you dont get medical attention. If you walk while you're aiming down the sight the weapon will be bumping up and down. If you go from croch to standing while you aim the weapon wont be completely still... all this means that the weapons in arma requires a higher learning curve than in RO2.

Another thing is that you wont be able to make instant sprints in arma 2 along with instant stops. There are no quickaim. It isn't possible to use a cover system and bump up and down and use precise shots at the enemies. It isnt possible to quickthrow grenades. If you use the ''rush''-tactic in arma you're dead. And being dead in arma may mean that you lose 40 minutes of progress. In RO2 it means 10 minutes spawntime.

Even if you play on small maps you wont be able to play it like RO2. I've played a lot of arma and even fights in cities you'll have to play the game A LOT MORE like RO1 than RO2. Playing arma like ro2 gets you killed.

This means, ultimately, and along with stupid features such as lockdowntimer (imagine lockdown timer on huges maps..), that RO2's weapon handling isn't realistic, the gameplay mechanics isn't realistic, no matter if you compare it to RO OST or arma2.

This isn't even just about realism in weaponhandling. It's about making sure the players will play the game in a realistic manner, no matter if it's done in a highly advanced way such as in arma2, or if it's made by adding crazy weaponsway and all that.

Would a soldier IRL sprint into enemy territory and go crazy by hipshoting with an MG? NO.

Will a player do this in a game if it's possible? Yes.

If anyone have doubts go play arma 2 as you play RO2. You will die. Now, consider to play it more like RO OST, and you will survive for longer if you do it properly.

There are many ways to make a game realistic. While RO2 in some cases are more realistic than RO1 it does, however, in the end of the day result in highly unrealistic arcadegameplay simply because the game ALLOWS that - AND - that was obviously the point with ro2 - to make it more ACCESIBLE.

Imo it's better to try to find solutions to the weaponhandling and gamemechanics in RO2 to make it more realistic instead of trying to find new ways to defend it as realistic when it clearly isn't. However, if we improve the game mechanics, and change the weaponhandling, and if it doesn't result in realistic gameplay, then it's not realistic anyway. Because in the end of the day it's the gameplay that counts. Realistic gameplay = happy people..
 
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Colt .45 killer

Grizzled Veteran
May 19, 2006
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stamina not having effect, and there's also the part where you can shoot in .0001 of a second from a full stop running.

Ive been killed a number of times playing where I get shot and killed BEFORE the guy's 3rd person model even finishes its running animations.

And I disagree, you see in arma if you sit somewhere, hold your breath and see what happens to your aim. It WILL degrade over time, you cant just sit there holding breath for 10 minutes straight, with miniscule ammounts of sway. Arma also has more sway from the standing position.
 

Scarf Ace

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 16, 2011
265
282
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As an Arma 2 player, I agree with OP.
Distance makes one hell of an impact. I personally don't think a bit more sway could hurt, but the main issue with RO2 is that the engagement ranges simply aren't far at all.
One thing I'd like to see however is some acceleration and deceleration when sprinting. There really needs to be a proper transition.
 
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JayTac

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 29, 2011
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Right. Arma II is a realistic game, isn't it?

It's not. But, for some reason the community thinks it is. The ArmA series is so vastly over-rated. The multiplayer mode is really nothing to speak of, being that pvp is basically nonexistent, and the co-op battles are fought against lifeless and nonstrategic AI.

The only thing good about ArmA are the size and scope of their maps. Everything else is an extreme letdown. Not to mention the option for 3rd person views.
 
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Echo Black

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 14, 2011
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Please don't compare RO2's realism with A2's.

ArmA 2 simulates inertia (you can't move your weapon instantly to the left if you were moving it to the right, unless it's a very very light weapon) too, so player response to enemy encounters is a lot less lightning-like. So if you're aiming at someone with a long rifle and they get up and run for it, the toughness of readjusting your shot is a lot more in line with real life. Little things like that.

The damage model is much more convincing, too. You don't have someone sponge two rifle shots, bandage in half a second, and return to the fray sprinting at full speed. In the off chance you survive a rifle wound, your combat efficient goes believably down. You need to be treated by a teammate, and after that, prone and take potshots since your aim gets messed up. This all adds much to realism, since being shot in the arm should render a man almost useless as a combatant. You'd at least have to fight completely defensively for the rest of the present fight, and this is exactly what happens in ArmA 2. There are many other examples, really.

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Alperce

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 13, 2011
447
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Portugal
Totally agree with OP. Although many things are indeed yet to be fixed in RO2, I don't really think the problem is weapon behavior, because most of the gunfights are done in close-medium range, so it is supposed to be easy to aim and hit a target at such a shot distance.

In fact, if you notice, when playing in Fallen Fighters, if you spot an enemy at 250-300m away, he's almost impossible to hit, even with a bolt action.

If the maps were indeed bigger, with larger fight distances, combat would be pretty much what every player demands, IMO. Many things can be pointed at RO2, but I belive weapon behavior is not one of them, for I think it's pretty much the most realistic weapon behavior I've ever seen within a game, when compared to firing a real firearm.
 
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vyyye

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 13, 2011
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It's not. But, for some reason the community thinks it is. The ArmA series is so vastly over-rated. The multiplayer mode is really nothing to speak of, being that pvp is basically nonexistent, and the co-op battles are fought against lifeless and nonstrategic AI.

The only thing good about ArmA are the size and scope of their maps. Everything else is an extreme letdown. Not to mention the option for 3rd person views.
I really hope you're not judging ARMA based on your pub experiences, because that would be hilarious.
 

HERR VADER

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 13, 2011
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3
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It's not. But, for some reason the community thinks it is. The ArmA series is so vastly over-rated. The multiplayer mode is really nothing to speak of, being that pvp is basically nonexistent, and the co-op battles are fought against lifeless and nonstrategic AI.

The only thing good about ArmA are the size and scope of their maps. Everything else is an extreme letdown. Not to mention the option for 3rd person views.

sure it's not perfect, but it's the most realistic game you can buy for money
there are alot of pvp servers, so it's your fault when playing on coop servers
3rd person view? it's again your fault, play on veteran servers
 
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Cyper

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2011
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It's not. But, for some reason the community thinks it is. The ArmA series is so vastly over-rated. The multiplayer mode is really nothing to speak of, being that pvp is basically nonexistent, and the co-op battles are fought against lifeless and nonstrategic AI.

The only thing good about ArmA are the size and scope of their maps. Everything else is an extreme letdown. Not to mention the option for 3rd person views.

While I agree that MP in arma is more or less useless I don't agree about the co-op. Contact people at Bohemia Interactive's official forums, or sites such as armaholic, and you will have the best tactical gameplay with people all over the globe. Since you pretend to know about the game how come you didn't know this?

Also, what game is more realistic than arma?

Answer: None at the moment.
 

Poerisija

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2009
617
800
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Yes, there are issues with RO2 weapon handling - mainly lack of stamina effect on aiming after sprint, the lack of damage model and how you can aim while getting to standing position from crouched position. But these are quite easy to fix. I believe damage model is something that we're going to get later - why make a complex damage system where you can get hit to a lot of different parts if it basically doesn't do anything?

But the recoil, accuracy and zoom aren't problems. I hope people realize this.
 
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Conscript

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 23, 2005
824
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I get the feeling that ranges in RO are not accurate.

I've shot people at 200 metres distant and yet it seems like they are much further away. This is probably where the criticism comes from, enemies seem to be bloody miles away when in reality they are very rarely outside the effective range of even then shortest range weapons.
 

Krobar

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 11, 2011
1,497
651
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The sewers of Leningrad.
I get the feeling that ranges in RO are not accurate.

I've shot people at 200 metres distant and yet it seems like they are much further away. This is probably where the criticism comes from, enemies seem to be bloody miles away when in reality they are very rarely outside the effective range of even then shortest range weapons.

The measurement is off by at least 1/4, meaning that it shows 1/4 further than it actually is. I just did the math for bayoneting someone with a 91/30 at "2 metres" according to the game. The full length of a 91/30 with a bayonet is approximately 1.5 metres your right forearm should compensate for the length lost by the butt of the rifle. So pretty much yea, those measurements are shown up as 1/4 more than the actual distance, unless things are rounded in even the smallest ranges which they probably are, yet this still can be true.
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
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OP's right.

If someone remade a hueg map like RO-Berezina, we can see if it plays out any differently, or as we'd say, "like RO1."