jeremy's new mod

[SgtH3nry3]

Can't say BiA had complicated controls to be honest...
Standard shooter controls plus one button context sensitive squad controls.
It takes a bit to figure out how safe exactly you are behind cover, but that's due to the arcadey nature of that feature. You don't have a real reference for that since its only in BiA and nowhere else. Once you get it its great though. It turns the game into some sort of ww2 puzzle game with shooter elements, so to speak. I often had the feeling of playing a real-time tactics game where I had to control one unit in first-person, rather than playing a shooter with squad controls.

Yes, I can't disagree here...


Damn!

On the other hand I never found RO to have complicated controls either. Its also standard shooter fare in my opinion. Extra functions, not found in regular shooters, have their extra buttons then (e.g. barrel change). Just memorize those and you are fine. The game is very playable without those extra functions too, so you aren't screwed if you don't know them at first.

Exactly.

Operation Flashpoint - now, those are complicated controls!
Ever tried to simply shoot out of a window?

LOL, yes.

Operation Flashpoint is near to impossible.


Lots of people say it's the combination of projectile really coming out of the third-person barrels and the FOV.
But I think it's also the movement.

 

[A-tree]

Yes! Why the **** do all these games feature MILLED recievers?

I blame tokyo mauri

Whats a reciever? Living in england = zero knowledge on the workings of firearms, apart from that when you pull the trigger bullets come out.

 

[D3terioNation]

The silver bit!

Anyhoo I care not for the hisorical accurance, more for the game-play aspect!

In that respect I have more hope for jeremy then I have TW adding helicopters...

 

[Grobut]

Whats a reciever? Living in england = zero knowledge on the workings of firearms, apart from that when you pull the trigger bullets come out.

The Reciver on a gun is the part that holds its mechanicsk, basically, its the main "body" of the gun.

So no, its not the silver bit (that part is called the Bolt-Carrier, and is actually part of the internal stuff inside the Reciver).

 

[D3terioNation]

What makes it 'milled' then?

 

[Grobut]

What makes it 'milled' then?

The difference between a "milled" and a "stamped" reciver is basically just how they are manufactured.

The AK prototype, and the first production model of the AK-47 actually had a 2-piece Reciver, the bottom half was a solid block of steel that had been cut to the propper shape, and then steel steel plates where bolted on to make up the sides of the gun body, and hold the internal parts in place.

But this design was a disaster! it had worked on the prototype, but once the gun started to be used and abused by the troops, this 2-piece design was just not strong enough, often the steel plates would get warped and jam moving parts inside the gun.

So a new and stronger kind of reciver was needed, and in a hurry! so they started making them with the "milled" reciver, which means they basically just took a big hunk of solid steel, and then cut the shape out of it.
So the milled reciver is one solid steel part.

But not supricingly, that is a wastefull, time consuming, expensive and heavy way of making a gun body, it was a stop gap solution, but a better way had to be found, the AK-47 was too expensive and too hard to massproduce because of that milled reciver! it was such a problem that at the end of the 1950's Russia started to look for a new Assault rifle.

So Kalashnikov had to redesign the AK, and the most important change made on this new AK (the AKM) was the stamped reciver, instead of a solid lump of steel, the reciver was now made out of a steel plate, bent and cut to fit the shape, and then more steel plates where welded to the inside where it needed streangth, the result was a reciver that was much much lighter, stronger, cheap, and fast and easy to mass produce, it was a much better design, and it is still used today on the modern AK-103 series.


You can easilly tell them apart by the "dimples" on the reciver, on the milled reciver, just above and infront of the magazine, there is a wide square groove into the body. But on the Stamped recivers, that big groove is just a small oval indent just above the magazine, thats the easiest way of telling them apart.

 

[D3terioNation]

Cheers for the there bud! You really know our stuff!

 

[Moz]

The reason you see Milled receivers in games is because all airsoft AK47s are modelled off the milled receiver. And idiots think that is correct. In fact, 90% of all the AK47 you see these days are not AK47s at all, but are AKM, which is the world famous one. The real AK47 is a disaster for manufacturing and way to heavy.

AKM vs AK47

 

[Grobut]

The reason you see Milled receivers in games is because all airsoft AK47s are modelled off the milled receiver. And idiots think that is correct. In fact, 90% of all the AK47 you see these days are not AK47s at all, but are AKM, which is the world famous one. The real AK47 is a disaster for manufacturing and way to heavy.

Exactly, people think that any AK they see is a "47", hell just watch the news, you see a group of angry men waving AKM's around, and the newscaster will allways refer to them as "AK-47's"


But the truth is, the AK-47 only saw production for 10 years, and we are talking limited production too.. the 47 served with Russia from 1951 to 1961, and in this time, only China was also making them (the first Type-56) in large numbers, and there was somewhat limited production of it in eastern europe, but never in huge numbers.

Its not untill 1961 when the AKM and its stamped reciver and recoil compensation comes out that we see the "AK-boom" around the world, it is the AKM that took the world by storm, and has served with, been exported to, and has been and still is in serial production in countries world wide.

the AKM is "the AK", it's the weapon you see in all the hot spots across the world, it is the AK that has been build, and continues to be build by their millions, it is the AK we faced durring the majority of the cold war.

The old 47 is a 1950's relic, it is a collectors item, and to my knowledge, only one company in the world still makes them, and that's "Arsenal" in Nevada USA, who still makes a semi-auto civillian market 47 clone because westerners want it to shoot paper targets.

 

[Monkwarrior]

And all these very interesting details have what to do with Jeremy ?



Monk.

 

[Grobut]

And all these very interesting details have what to do with Jeremy ?

Nothing, but incase you missed it, that mod has been declaired dead, so there's not much reason to talk about it, might aswell share interesting AK facts since people took an intrest in it

 

[D3terioNation]

Yeah talking about jeremy gets boring after a few posts

 

[Monkwarrior]

I didn't find him boring back then.
He fueled the team with energy.
Ok, a bit of a drama queen, but that had to do with age

Monk.

 

[Fu. Svedberg]

Exactly, people think that any AK they see is a "47", hell just watch the news, you see a group of angry men waving AKM's around, and the newscaster will allways refer to them as "AK-47's"


But the truth is, the AK-47 only saw production for 10 years, and we are talking limited production too.. the 47 served with Russia from 1951 to 1961, and in this time, only China was also making them (the first Type-56) in large numbers, and there was somewhat limited production of it in eastern europe, but never in huge numbers.

Its not untill 1961 when the AKM and its stamped reciver and recoil compensation comes out that we see the "AK-boom" around the world, it is the AKM that took the world by storm, and has served with, been exported to, and has been and still is in serial production in countries world wide.

the AKM is "the AK", it's the weapon you see in all the hot spots across the world, it is the AK that has been build, and continues to be build by their millions, it is the AK we faced durring the majority of the cold war.

The old 47 is a 1950's relic, it is a collectors item, and to my knowledge, only one company in the world still makes them, and that's "Arsenal" in Nevada USA, who still makes a semi-auto civillian market 47 clone because westerners want it to shoot paper targets.

Or you have people like me that don't care that much because when I say AK47 I'm more thinking of the mechanism in the gun that is more or less identical between the AK47 and AKM.

Oh and I always say I have shot a AK47 guess I'm a liar since it was a AKM ^^


Not saying you are wrong I just don't think most of us care THAT much about details like that


Sorry I know this was a offtopic post and I beg you guys discussing this move it to a new thread in the History forum or something and let this thread be about Jeremys new project.

 

[Grobut]

Or you have people like me that don't care that much because when I say AK47 I'm more thinking of the mechanism in the gun that is more or less identical between the AK47 and AKM.

Oh and I always say I have shot a AK47 guess I'm a liar since it was a AKM ^^

Not saying you are wrong I just don't think most of us care THAT much about details like that

Whilst it is true that the mechanism is nearly identical between the 47 and AKM (the "hammer" is a bit different), there are other vital changes between the designs that means they certainly don't shoot the same! the AKM is a much better weapon to shoot.

So no, it doesen't matter much when a newscaster calls an AKM a 47 by mistake, its just me nitpicking because im a pedantic bastard, but its pretty damned important when people are putting the weapon into a game or mod (and moreso when they claim realism as a goal), because there really is a vital difference, the 47 kicks like an angry mule, whereas the AKM was redesigned heavilly to lower its recoil, everything from the shape of the stock, the foregrip and the muzzle was changed with recoil in mind, the result is the AKM has about half the recoil of the 47, and that, my freind, is very important! and fundamentally changes how effective the weapon is and should be, the difference is far from just cosmetic in nature.

Sorry I know this was a offtopic post and I beg you guys discussing this move it to a new thread in the History forum or something and let this thread be about Jeremys new project.

Why? the mods Dev's have declaired this mod dead, it is not in production, what is there to discuss? an unreleased mod that will never be released is hardly an interesting subject that we should try to keep on topic if you ask me..

 

[User Name]

I don't see how reducing the weight by 1/3 actually reduced recoil. If anything it should increase it. The stock changes could have reduced felt recoil though.

Other than the new receiver, muzzle brake, reduced rate of fire through the hammer mods, and the stock changes. They really didn't make that many changes. I would prefer a milled receiver if I had a choice simply for the added strength, and accuracy.

 

[Grobut]

I don't see how reducing the weight by 1/3 actually reduced recoil. If anything it should increase it. The stock changes could have reduced felt recoil though.

Other than the new receiver, muzzle brake, reduced rate of fire through the hammer mods, and the stock changes. They really didn't make that many changes. I would prefer a milled receiver if I had a choice simply for the added strength, and accuracy.

You stand not on solid ground my freind.

The stock is very important, look at the 47 stock, like classic rifles of old, it droops downwards because that is the most comfortable shape, but back then, nobody had considdered how that shape affects recoil.

Its newtonian physics 101, for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction, so when you propell a projectile out of a gun, the gun is also propelled directly backwards.
But it is stopped by the shooters shoulder, so having the stock connect to the shoulder in a place that is below the barrel (the source of the force) as it does on the 47, means that the barrel will climb upwards violently, and yaw to the right (if you like most are shooting righthanded, since you hold your torso at an angle when shooting, that effects the direction recoil, the yaw).

On the AKM this was adressed, the stock is allmost in a straight line with the barrel, much like on the M16 family of weapons, and this drastically reduces "felt recoil" or "barrel climb", the force is ofcourse the same, as it is the same caliber and the same barrel leangth, but it is transferred to your shoulder in a way that is much easier to control, as it doesen't "bounce off" your shoulder in the same way, but is absorbed.
This is even true for the folding stock versions, again, on the 47S it droops downwards, but on the AKMS it goes in a straight line.

The front grip is also important, on the 47 it was again very traditional, but the AKM added "buldges" to the sides, so you have a much firmer grip on the weapon, its a small change that makes alot of difference when trying to controll a fully automatic weapon.

And lastly, but certainly not least, the AKM has a recoil compensator, that strange triangular muzzle break on it actually forces the muzzle blast upwards and to the right (which forces the weapon down and to the left, counteracting the weapons recoil), it makes a very big difference.

Add them all togeather and you get a drastic reduction in felt recoil.


Also, it is a mistake to think that the milled reciver is stronger than the stamped reciver, i can see why you would think that, but its just not true, infact the stamped reciver is the strongest because it is not as rigid, it will bend instead of breaking so to say, forces will bounce off of it rather than smash it.
The only reason you dont see milled recivers breaking is because they are so fricken massive! but it is redundant when you can make an even stronger reciver from steel plates an milled inserts, a total waste of time and costly resources.

Also, the milled reciver is not a more accurately machined part, the stamped reciver also uses milled parts to hold things in place, they are just inserts that are ticwelded to the basic shape (the steel plate), so that has actually not changed.

 

[fiftyone]

That was a good read, thanks...

 

[A-tree]

Thanks for all the info.

 

[User Name]

Add them all together and you get a drastic reduction in felt recoil.

Which is what I said. It would reduce felt recoil. A lighter weapon still absorbs less recoil than a heavier firearm. As anyone who has shot an M38, and an M91/30 can attest to.

I am agreeing with you on the AK47 vs AKM by the way, before you counter my statements. After all the AK 74's muzzle brake virtually eliminates recoil. I'm just talking about recoil itself now. We're so far off topic at this point I don't think it matters.

As for a milled vs stamped receiver. I truly can't say one way or the other. As both of my rifles are AKM clones. However, most people do feel that an AK 47 is more accurate than an AKM because it doesn't bend and flex like an AKM.