"Jap" racist?

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
Status
Not open for further replies.

MentalMidget

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
33
0
0
First time I heard it in game I was roflmao and could not believe my ears. I envisioned this mad and bloody japanese soldier rising from the wet jungle floor, finally after so much crawling snarling "MERICAN" looking forward to get revenge.
Now it turns out it is an anachronism left from the devteam to give the japanese something to yell, at allies, that we can relate to. It made me laugh though it seemed out of place.
Thats the thing. I want to call the enemy names as long as the names belong in that specific historical context but this one was funny alright:D
 

Nobex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 22, 2013
328
0
0
Auch

Auch

Before pearl harbor jap wa not an insult. The war led to anti japanease feelings and jap suddenly became a dirty word:IS2:
 

Mike_Nomad

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 15, 2006
5,024
1,037
0
79
Florida, USA
www.raidersmerciless.com
Before pearl harbor jap wa not an insult. The war led to anti japanease feelings and jap suddenly became a dirty word:IS2:


Nonsense.... The Japanese were Allies in WW1 and up and until Pearl they were regarded as "friends" It was only after Pearl Harbor that the term "jap" become popularized. It began in US propaganda posters and films.
 

Tokugawa77

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 15, 2012
166
1
0
Nonsense.... The Japanese were Allies in WW1 and up and until Pearl they were regarded as "friends" It was only after Pearl Harbor that the term "jap" become popularized. It began in US propaganda posters and films.

I myself am not sure when the term became widely used, but there was definately animosity toward the Japanese in the 30s due to their imperialist aggression against China and their rivalry with the US for power in the Pacific. That and general racism against asians as a whole.
 

Jazm

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
13
1
0
Norway
Both "jap" and "n*gger" were used in a derogatory way towards the people they were aimed at. They were used in exactly the same racist context.

The terms were not used in the same racial context, and the two terms differ greatly.

"N*gger" is directly referring to a racial trait, it comes from the Latin word Negro meaning dark, here it refers to the darker color skin of an entire race. African Americans were discriminated against as a whole regardless of variable ethnic ancestry, they were (and are) a ethnic minority inside the US, but were segregated by a policy of skin color. So the term "n*gger" and the discrimination against African Americans were racial, and by definition racist. The slur is a racial slur

The term Jap is an abbreviation of the word Japanese, referring to a specific ethnic group so there is nothing coincidental about it, and the Japanese are not a separate race (despite what their politics claimed at the time, similar to Hitlers arian claims). The way the American Japanese ethnic minority was discriminated against, was by targeting that specific group on the base of their common ethnic ancestry and not by broad racial traits. So if the term Jap is used as a slur against a person that is Japanese or of Japanese ancestry, then it's a ethnic slur. It can become a racial slur if it's used to describe a person or all Asians based on Asian racial traits alone.

This should explain the racial and ethnic context of the terms and the fundamental difference between them.

However, what astounds me is the level of ignorance people display with regards to the slur "jap". It most certainly is a racist term on par with any other one you can name.

No, the term is most certainly not racist, as it terminology is not based on race. It can be used as a racist term (see above), but is never a racial slur by it self. And in the direct context of this game it's not used as a racial slur either. Jap, Nip and Tojo are directed strictly at enemy soldiers of the IJA, it is no more racist than yank, kraut or limey regardless of what race utters the terms.

I'm not tying to be a jerk here, I'm only pointing out the glaring flaws of a common misconception. Learn the difference between ethnic and racial and use the terms accordingly.
 

Tokugawa77

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 15, 2012
166
1
0
The terms were not used in the same racial context, and the two terms differ greatly.

"N*gger" is directly referring to a racial trait, it comes from the Latin word Negro meaning dark, here it refers to the darker color skin of an entire race. African Americans were discriminated against as a whole regardless of variable ethnic ancestry, they were (and are) a ethnic minority inside the US, but were segregated by a policy of skin color. So the term "n*gger" and the discrimination against African Americans were racial, and by definition racist. The slur is a racial slur

The term Jap is an abbreviation of the word Japanese, referring to a specific ethnic group so there is nothing coincidental about it, and the Japanese are not a separate race (despite what their politics claimed at the time, similar to Hitlers arian claims). The way the American Japanese ethnic minority was discriminated against, was by targeting that specific group on the base of their common ethnic ancestry and not by broad racial traits. So if the term Jap is used as a slur against a person that is Japanese or of Japanese ancestry, then it's a ethnic slur. It can become a racial slur if it's used to describe a person or all Asians based on Asian racial traits alone.

This should explain the racial and ethnic context of the terms and the fundamental difference between them.



No, the term is most certainly not racist, as it terminology is not based on race. It can be used as a racist term (see above), but is never a racial slur by it self. And in the direct context of this game it's not used as a racial slur either. Jap, Nip and Tojo are directed strictly at enemy soldiers of the IJA, it is no more racist than yank, kraut or limey regardless of what race utters the terms.

I'm not tying to be a jerk here, I'm only pointing out the glaring flaws of a common misconception. Learn the difference between ethnic and racial and use the terms accordingly.

The origin of a slur are, once again, irrelevent. The purpose for which both terms were used were identical- the degredation of a person based on ethnicity. And the difference between race and ethnicity is also equally irrelevent, seeing as broader classifications of "race" are really arbitrary (would Afghans, for example, be considered "racially" Middle Eastern or Asian?). That being said, is an ethnic slur any different in practice than a racial one? It seems like you're splitting hairs here. All I'm saying is that "jap" is an offensive term, which is undebatable.

And yes, it is used as a racial slur in game, as it was by real US soldiers, and for this reason I don't have a problem with it in that instance.
 

greenlemonade

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2010
793
189
0
Plenty of material on it's racism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

I realize the US solders use it ingame, but WE are not U.S. solders from the 40/50's. Just because the "N" word is used in Huckleberry Finn doesn't mean it is ok for the reader to use it.


Please use "JP" to abbreviate. I used to play Phantasy Star with Japanese people a lot and many of them found it Racist.

Use JP.
 
Last edited:

Uber-Pig

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 3, 2006
13
0
0
I really don't understand that rationale that it's fine to use the term because people in the 1940s used it frequently. People said and did a lot of things in the 1940s that aren't exactly admirable.

It's 2013, and no amount of playing a video game or reading about WW2 makes someone qualified to posture about as though they actually lived in the 1940s or were a soldier during that period etc. It's alternately just laziness and arm-chair/tacticool behavior personified.

Nor is 'Jap' just an abbreviation, there's tons of historical precedent of its use as a slur. If you're on mic just use Japanese or IJA or whatever, same with text.
 

Jazm

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
13
1
0
Norway
The origin of a slur are, once again, irrelevent. The purpose for which both terms were used were identical- the degredation of a person based on ethnicity. And the difference between race and ethnicity is also equally irrelevent, seeing as broader classifications of "race" are really arbitrary (would Afghans, for example, be considered "racially" Middle Eastern or Asian?). That being said, is an ethnic slur any different in practice than a racial one? It seems like you're splitting hairs here.

The origin is highly relevant, as is the actual meaning and context of the written and spoken word, without an understanding of the word then there really is no grounds for an argument. And in this case it presents itself very evident what the words denote, one is an abbreviation of nations name and the other is a perversion of a Latin word for a color shade here pertaining to a racial feature. When you understand this, then you can clearly see from the very origins of the words that they already have a designated meaning. You can pretend as much as you want that the words "ethnic" and "race" have no meaning and are irrelevant, that does not however change the fact that they are commonly acknowledge words with very precise, descriptive and specific meanings with which they serve as tools in understanding various subjects. With out the word "race" and a supported understanding we can not have the "racist", can we.

The two terms use and purpose were not identical, the explanation in my previous posts illustrated why and how, and the "degradation of a person" is not limited to ethnicity with the N-word, it is very apparent that it targets a whole race in spite of ethnic, cultural and national differences with those of that race, that is what makes it racist!

Yes, the term Jap can be extremely racist, but by it self it does not carry denotations that are racist or in fact negative. It is no different than what Britt is to British. The term needs to be used in conjunction with actual racism to give it connotations that are racist, and when no racism is applied it should be perceived no more offensive than for the fact that shortening nationals description are improper and generally seen as rude.
That is why I argue that it is not the in the same category or equal to the N-word. I'm not arguing that the term can not be a slur or perceived as offensive even when no offense or racism is intended, nor am I trying to negate the fact that people have suffered racism or ethnic injustice while being identified as "Japs". Never have I argued that slurs are not meant to be offensive.

The US troops referred to the German Axis as krauts and Jerries, they also had propaganda showing them as comical arian ubermensch with clear Northern European stereotypical features. Also, people of ethnic German ancestry were systematically discriminated against and put in detention camps, prisons and institutions during and after the war while being identified as "krauts" and "Jerries".
Do you consider the terms "Kraut" or "Jerrie" to be racist. If so, more or less than the term "Jap". If you find it not to be racist, is it because both sides were considered to be Caucasian.

Is a ethnic slur different in practice from a racial slur? Let me give you an example and let's see if you can spot the difference. Let's say you are talking to two Americans, one is whats considered a Caucasian the other is considered an African American. You say to the Caucasian "Oh, now you are being such a Yank" and then you say to the African American "Oh, and you are being such a N*****". Can you tell which slur is targeting ethnicity and which is targeting race, who do you think took the most offense by being referred to by the N-word, do you think one of them could take more offense by being called a Yank, can you recognize that there is a difference. In any case, let me tell you, BIG DIFFERENCE!
 

greenlemonade

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2010
793
189
0
You don't need a wall of text.

Just type "JP". Its actually less letters :)

It's ok to portray U.S. solders saying it, but by today's standards it has so much potential to be offensive that it is just easier to NOT say it. If a server says "no racism" in the rules, then try not to say it.

On the other hand, you shouldn't over-react on people that say it. I'm sure most people don't intend to be offensive with it and may not even know its history.
 

GARY OAK

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2012
331
0
0
England
This thread has been comedy gold.

jap/nip is no more demeaning then calling englishmen tommys/limeys, germans kraut/fritz/jerry, the russians ivans, and the americans doughboys.

if people are getting flustered about simple things like this, i dont even know what is going on any more. I suggest that you get up get a glass of water have a good drink and a lie down in a dark room to calm down.
 
Last edited:

Holy.Death

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
1,427
91
0
More specifically, I find it irritating when people irl don't realize that "jap" is a slur on par with "n*gger".
In my country the other word can be spoken in two ways - one being a slur and the other not, so I was quite suprised when I learned that word was considered slur in English. I also wouldn't suspect "Jap" for being insulting as I know people has tendency for shortening words to be faster. I think the war did this.

Best let the Japanese decide how offended they are by the use of the word 'Jap'. And let's not get into a contest about what's more offensive.
I'd agree if I wouldn't have known religious people who find many actions/words offensive, even when they really aren't... That's why I aim at intent when I judge if something is being used as insulting/racist.

I am active on another forum where we prohibit word "ruski" for being used as derogatory (because proper term nowadays is russian, not ruski, ruski we use as historical term), so I understand where you're coming form.

Personally I prefer to use "enemy" as I find this simpler to process through while I am talking (weird, I know).

Yes you can say ****** in the game if a characther in the game is black, remmeber in teh 1940s ****** was not offensive but black was:IS2:
Black as a racial slur for black people is complete insanity for me. White people are white, black people are black. This is what I meant ealier in this very post - people who try to make something prohibited even when it's completely groundless.

Yes, the term Jap can be extremely racist, but by it self it does not carry denotations that are racist or in fact negative. It is no different than what Britt is to British. The term needs to be used in conjunction with actual racism to give it connotations that are racist, and when no racism is applied it should be perceived no more offensive than for the fact that shortening nationals description are improper and generally seen as rude.
Very true.
 
Last edited:

captain pain

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 25, 2012
198
13
0
I can't speak for other places, but if you really don't think 'jap' is going to get you reactions just short of 'the n-word' (sorry, this forum censors the real word) when you drop it in conversations with strangers in America, you're more or less completely disconnected from reality. It doesn't matter how racist-sounding or not racist-sounding you meant it to be.
 
Last edited:

Hamish

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2012
46
0
0
Japs is a very mild historical ethnic slur, I'm sure Allies said a lot worse, and rightly so, given how Japanese treated POWs etc.

Mostly the people offended by ethnic/racist slurs these days are other white people, or 2nd+ gen migrants to said country, who have been so far assimilated into the culture and language of their new country, they are effectively white people.

These people still believe their preferred slurs are relevant to them and they should feel "offended", its not, they are historical terms.

If you actually went to any of these countries and start shouting these slurs they'd have no clue what you're on about.

RPing in character on a server, should be judged by the server admin, or the votekick if needed, some can be entertaining, some are poor attempts, but rarely do you hear/see actual racists, lots of trolls though. ;)
 
Last edited:

captain pain

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 25, 2012
198
13
0
I'm going to stop reading this thread, because it's almost entirely packed with people who have flimsily rationalized the use of racial slurs. Before I go, please let me ask that everyone stops doing the stereotypical Japanese imitation voice on in-game chat. It's not clever, it's played-out hack stuff that nobody with an actual functioning sense of humor or real sense of their own place in the universe would even bother with. Thank you and good luck actually saying the word "Jap" out loud and feeling good about it.
 

SpaceMonkey

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 14, 2006
27
0
0
Canada
Cannuck doesn't count.... We have a hockey team with that name.

After 30+ years of not hearing any known insult towards Canadians, I'm starting to think that either people like us too much or just don't care enough to think of one.

In the hbo series the Pacific they had one line that went "Nuk's got f**ked" when refering to Canadians.
They also called the French-Canadian from Quebec "frenchy"
Other than that no one cares enough about us.
 
Last edited:

greenlemonade

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2010
793
189
0
The amount of people in this thread who deny this being offensive is surprising.

You can't counter all the evidence that J** is looked at as a racial slur by just lazily assuming that it isn't and being rude about it to boot (I'm looking at you Gary Oak).

It doesn't matter if you or I are personally offended by hearing this word. The thread is "Is J** racist?".

I think the answer is probably "yes".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=japs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Jap


Even if it isn't racist (because you intend no offense), it is Politically Incorrect so why say it?

Just say or type J.P. ("jay-pee")
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
0
Nargothrond
Mostly the people offended by ethnic/racist slurs these days are other white people, or 2nd+ gen migrants to said country, who have been so far assimilated into the culture and language of their new country, they are effectively white people.

I'm sorry, but unless you are actually white looking, you can NEVER be effectively white. You will always be stereotyped by some jerks. You will be called racial slurs at some point in your childhood, and it will have an effect. Assimilated or not, you can't assimilate your physical characteristics.

The reason 1st gen immigrants aren't too touchy is because they didn't feel any racism in their home country. That's the reason "Murican" doesn't offend anyone here.

On a funny note about stereotypes - I, an Asian-American once got mistaken for a Chicano (Mexican-American), and told to go back to South America. A Cherokee friend of my sister's was told to go back to Viet-Nam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.