"Jap" racist?

[andyana]

That's because it simply isn't, and, frankly, it's extremely insulting to suggest that the shortening of Japanese to Jap, like you would Briton to Brit, is even on par with calling someone the N-word.

Best let the Japanese decide how offended they are by the use of the word 'Jap'. And let's not get into a contest about what's more offensive.

How exactly would you determine whether something was 'hate speech' (whatever that means...) and had 'racially offensive overtones'? Is it purely based on the person's opinion? If so then that's a funny rule to have that is based on no hard or fast definition.

If the language offends that person, then it's 'hate speech'. At the very least, respect that person's opinion and don't use it.

Surprising considering the average Japanese person isn't an English speaker.

Actually, the Japanese are taught English as a second language at school. Granted, individuals will have differing abilities, but in my experience most understand English reasonably well.

 

[Hilldog]

Best let the Japanese decide how offended they are by the use of the word 'Jap'. And let's not get into a contest about what's more offensive.

Well then we'll have to erase most of the posts in this thread, since the majority come from people who aren't Japanese. Then again it seems odd to argue one group can dictate what others can and cannot say, and the other group is told they can't even have a say in it.

If the language offends that person, then it's 'hate speech'. At the very least, respect that person's opinion and don't use it.

So if I deem 'Brit', 'Redneck' or 'Jerry' to be offensive then you would be happy to deem it hate speech and respect my wishes for you not to say it?

Actually, the Japanese are taught English as a second language at school. Granted, individuals will have differing abilities, but in my experience most understand English reasonably well.

Damn, I wish I'd had the same experience, I could have had some great conversations with my fellow students of Japanese origin a few years back.

 

[andyana]

Well then we'll have to erase most of the posts in this thread, since the majority come from people who aren't Japanese. Then again it seems odd to argue one group can dictate what others can and cannot say, and the other group is told they can't even have a say in it.

I would say that in such an emotionally-charged arena as labels for nations or races, that the race/nation being labelled should have the final say if they're cool with it.

So if I deem 'Brit', 'Redneck' or 'Jerry' to be offensive then you would be happy to deem it hate speech and respect my wishes for you not to say it?

Yes, of course. It would seem needlessly offensive to say it to you if you've expressed an objection to it.

Damn, I wish I'd had the same experience, I could have had some great conversations with my fellow students of Japanese origin a few years back.

As I said, it's only my experience; very subjective. Out of curiosity, where were you based in Japan?

 

[Randy Newman]

Exactly. We don't call black people (insert N-word here) because they tell me its offensive.

To me, its just a word no different from the word "apple.". I am not black. I had not even met a black person until 2008 (I was playing RO before I met a black person...) so its not like I had black friends growing up to empathise with over this. I do not use it out of respect.

If a Japanese person says that "Jap" is offensive, then...don't use it out of respect.

 

[Nobex]

Who cares

Who cares

WHo cares if it is offensive, it was said in the 1940s so ingame you can say it and it should not matter. If let say on the forum then dont say jap:IS2:

 

[Randy Newman]

WHo cares if it is offensive, it was said in the 1940s so ingame you can say it and it should not matter. If let say on the forum then dont say jap:IS2:

Ok by that logic, I should be able to say ni**er in game too right. Hey, it was the 40's.

Cool, I'll take that advice to heart.

 

[Hilldog]

As I said, it's only my experience; very subjective. Out of curiosity, where were you based in Japan?

I wasn't based anywhere in Japan, I've never been there in my life, I was around Japanese students who were boarding at my school for a number of years.

 

[andyana]

I wasn't based anywhere in Japan, I've never been there in my life, I was around Japanese students who were boarding at my school for a number of years.

Ah, sorry, I read your post too fast. I thought you'd taught in Japan.

 

[WhiteKnight77]

As I said, it's only my experience; very subjective. Out of curiosity, where were you based in Japan?

I wasn't based anywhere in Japan, I've never been there in my life, I was around Japanese students who were boarding at my school for a number of years.

Even back in the early 80s, Japanese students were learning English (at least on Okinawa) and had a fair understanding of it. It was the older folks who were not that versed in it unless they ran a business frequented by US service personnel.

I even remember some on the mainland even knowing English even back in the 60s, especially if they lived near a US base or housing area.

 

[Nobex]

Ok by that logic, I should be able to say ni**er in game too right. Hey, it was the 40's.

Cool, I'll take that advice to heart.

Yes you can say ****** in the game if a characther in the game is black, remmeber in teh 1940s ****** was not offensive but black was:IS2:

 

[JosephBaier]

2muchroleplay4me

 

[Mike_Nomad]

2muchpoliticallycorrectforme

 

[Zetsumei]

I've seen servers where people say Jap and no one, in my opinion quite rightly, bats an eyelid, but on others it can be an instant ban because the admin on the server deems it a 'racist' word (incidently it's annoying how servers that have a message stating 'Any racist comment = two week ban' never actually define what constitutes a racist comment, so presumably any comment they deem so). It's ironic since the US voice overs in game, specifically the taunts I think, call the Japanese in-game 'Nips', which personally I think much more warrants a 'slur' than Jap does, but that's just me.

Both Jap and Nip are shortings though. Jap logically is a shortening of Japanese, And Nip is a shortening from Nipponjin which is the Japanese word for Japanese (but then in romanized characters).

 

[Mormegil]

I am a Japanese born in California. As a Japanese American, I find it offensive when people say "japs" verbally or in text. If that term is used in the game, I think it is fine. I understand players not wanting to type the long word "japanese" all the time during a game, but saying the word on a mic is no exception. Using the term outside the game is very offensive to me and many other Japanese Americans.

Please don't use the term "japs". Please use "IJA" or something else. It really bothers me when people use it in the forums or on a mic. Thank you.

That's fair. I, for one, will refrain from using the term on mic.

I usually prefer to describe the type of soldier there anyway - like "riflemen" or "mortarmen" as it's more useful anyway. If you're calling out where enemies are, you don't really need to specify nationality. Most people don't bother giving reports on locations of friendlies.


And for people surprised that others are "easily offended" by mere abbreviations, think about growing up being called racist names. Happened to me, and I can tell you it does strike a nerve. I was never called "Jap," but did get "Chink" or "ching-chong-ching-chong" even though I'm not of Chinese descent.

 

[G_Sajer]

With regard to "Jap" and "Nip." You have to put it in historic context. I came along less than three years after the war ended. I spoke with a lot of vets as a child in the 1950s. Back then, if uttered by an adult, both words were slurs. Those folks never got past Pearl Harbor and the horrors of the war. Perfectly understandable. I once knew A fellow who spent quite awhile hanging upside down by his ankles. He was suspended between two girders on what was left of the Bunker Hill after the Kamakazi attacks. They repaired his bones. His sensibilities never healed. Today the young folks don't have that level of resentment. And that's a good thing. Cause all those wounds need to heal.
I do not like the concept of political correctness because I see it as a perverse attempt at social engineering and it is intellectually dishonest. So I don't go down that road. But in 2013, I think it is a real good idea to avoid those words out of respect for Japanese players who may engage in the game. Those kids have no personal hand in the historic events, nor do most of us. Let's let the dead rest in peace.

 

[Mormegil]

Yes you can say ****** in the game if a characther in the game is black, remmeber in teh 1940s ****** was not offensive but black was:IS2:

Not sure if serious...

I'm pretty sure the term was offensive back then, mainly if you were black.

 

[Meirleach]

Not sure why people are finding it so hard to understand why calling someone a 'jap' or 'nip' is offensive. There's plenty of Americans who'd get mad at being called a yank for instance.

Over here it's pretty easy to insult someone by calling them a west brit. The words themselves are pretty harmless, it's the intent and history behind them that makes them offensive.

 

[LugNut]

How about Beaver-bangers, no wait I just made that one up..

This made wading through this thread worthwhile. Beaver-Bangers, sweet.

It appears that we should all speak english without any accents as they might be misconstrued as an attempt to insult the nationality in question. The jury is still out as to whether native speakers of said languages are exempt, they might have to prove their accent is authentic and not an attempt to provide juvenile humor. Further discussion is called for.

All references to the various nationalities involved should be the entire historically correct name used by the governing body at the time period referenced by the individual battle. Any attempts to shorten this name are disallowed.

For those with limited brain power, Allied/Axis are recommended as acceptable substitutes.

 

[C_Gibby]

Come on, that's freaking hilarious. It's obviously humor.

yes it is i am funny

Yeah, I don't mean that there are actually servers named that, I mean how the userbase behaves which is, uh, not all that funny and instead a bit sad.

 

[Tokugawa77]

That's because it simply isn't, and, frankly, it's extremely insulting to suggest that the shortening of Japanese to Jap, like you would Briton to Brit, is even on par with calling someone the N-word.

Two words- historical context. Both "jap" and "n*gger" were used in a derogatory way towards the people they were aimed at. They were used in exactly the same racist context. Jap may coincidently be a shortening, but that is beside the point; the term was used historically during and after WW2. It was the word used in newspapers along with racial caricatures to demonize an group of Americans, it was shouted at them as they boarded the trains to internment camps, and it was spray painted on their vandalized homes and businesses when they finally returned. It's insulting that you fail to see just how offensive it is.

Surprising considering the average Japanese person isn't an English speaker.

But it's not native Japanese that you're insulting necassarily; as I said above, it's mainly going to offend Americans of Japanese decent.

Let me make this clear- I personally think that words are just words, and that as long as they aren't used directly against an individual, they're fine. However, what astounds me is the level of ignorance people display with regards to the slur "jap". It most certainly is a racist term on par with any other one you can name. End of story.

Not exactly the type of debate I was expecting to get into on these forums, but someone has to educate these people.