is RO:HoS pandering too much to the CoD crowd?
- Thread starter zogthedoomed
- Start date
Tripwire, market the game as a realism game, because after all, there is a lot of people who are getting sick of these crappy, easy, unrealistic games such as Medal of Honor and Call of Duty and Battlefield, just read the comments on youtube, ign, gamespot, gametrailers etc. There is a lot of people who want a realistic shooter and think the Call of dutys etc. is the only answer. Then this would be the time to strike with a realistic, very similar to the first one, Red Orchestra 2 (with tanks of course to appeal to the Battlefield people). You would give gamers a breath of fresh air by giving them a realistic immersive ww2 game, unlike anything they have played before, so if yous are going to follow in the footsteps of the other shooters, that would be a mistake and also wrong to your current, loyal fanbase. I read that tripwire had set trends in games and not follow them, so please do the same with RO2.
My main concern with different difficulty modes is that players, in the end, are linked to the rest of the playing population in the sense that you need them to have a game. So if the bulk of the players are gamers new to RO and therefore playing relaxed realism - thats where you're going to be forced to play if you want people to play with. It's sort of like what happened with RO:Ost and the advent of 50 player servers.. I know plenty of players who didnt care for how the gameplay changed with so many people on maps not designed for such numbers, but since there wasnt any real population anywhere else, your only choices were either a 50 or 24/7 Danzig.
hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
Hey I just wrote an essay in RO:HOS's defense, on another forum. I feel like I should get a medal or an internet cookie or something!
Here's the link:
http://www.forum.resistanceandliberation.com/showthread.php?p=136893#post136893
I posted it here, because it is relevant to most people's concerns about the game. STOP WORRYING. Here's what I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dBoy
The only thing which bothers me is making the game for wider audience,i.e. :lower smg recoil, faster gameplay and that new 'unique' gamemode, no information about vehicles
...Rising Sun as paid add-on?Damn!
Well you're wrong in pretty much every way here buddy.
1) Lower SMG recoil: RO's SMG recoil was outrageously high and actually very unrealistic, notably with the PPSH, which fired a pistol round. The RO devs even admitted to this on the forums and promised to make it more historically accurate in RO:HOS.
2) Faster gameplay: This is a very general statement, but the only things to suggest this that have been announced don't have anything to do with faster, but "easier." They're making it easier to mount MG's on surfaces. They're making it easier to see your objectives. They're making it easier to communicate with teammates. All of these things sound positive to me.
3) Unique gamemode: Nothing "unrealistic" about this. They already announced a new game mode called Countdown, which sounds like a blast. You have an assault-type game mode and before each objective, everyone gets one life. Once each objective is completed, the entire team respawns to take the next one. On top of this,there is a gameplay timer on each objective to keep gameplay rolling and prevent camping from the attacking team. Then both teams switch attack/defending roles.
Then, they're also adding in a multiplayer campaign which connects game maps to a risk-board type game play. So a victory in one map leads to another battle, and reinforcements are retained from battle to battle. The result is a big back and forth battle across a jigsaw puzzle of Stalingrad.
4) The add-on Pacific Storm: This is not guaranteed to be a paid expansion. The devs have explicitly said many times that it totally depends on the quality of the finished product at the time of RO:HOS's release. Besides, it gives a great opportunity for modders to make some money. We all know mod devs make the best retail developers, so I see this as a big positive.
On a more broad scale, I actually think that RO:HOS is going to be even more realistic than RO on many levels. There will now be controlled breathing for accurate shots, first person weapon collision, almost pixel-specific damage modeling with a bleeding/bandaging system that is coordinated with it, the ability to see enemies in your peripheral vision, adjustable rifle and MG sights, and suppression effects. At the same time, they're making the game more realistic by making things that would be simple to do in real life simple to do in-game -- like mounting MG's and the like.
Sorry for the long post, but it really irks me when I see people complaining RO:HOS is pandering to the masses when that isn't consistent at all with what information/media they have released about the game!
Here's the link:
http://www.forum.resistanceandliberation.com/showthread.php?p=136893#post136893
I posted it here, because it is relevant to most people's concerns about the game. STOP WORRYING. Here's what I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dBoy
The only thing which bothers me is making the game for wider audience,i.e. :lower smg recoil, faster gameplay and that new 'unique' gamemode, no information about vehicles
Well you're wrong in pretty much every way here buddy.
1) Lower SMG recoil: RO's SMG recoil was outrageously high and actually very unrealistic, notably with the PPSH, which fired a pistol round. The RO devs even admitted to this on the forums and promised to make it more historically accurate in RO:HOS.
2) Faster gameplay: This is a very general statement, but the only things to suggest this that have been announced don't have anything to do with faster, but "easier." They're making it easier to mount MG's on surfaces. They're making it easier to see your objectives. They're making it easier to communicate with teammates. All of these things sound positive to me.
3) Unique gamemode: Nothing "unrealistic" about this. They already announced a new game mode called Countdown, which sounds like a blast. You have an assault-type game mode and before each objective, everyone gets one life. Once each objective is completed, the entire team respawns to take the next one. On top of this,there is a gameplay timer on each objective to keep gameplay rolling and prevent camping from the attacking team. Then both teams switch attack/defending roles.
Then, they're also adding in a multiplayer campaign which connects game maps to a risk-board type game play. So a victory in one map leads to another battle, and reinforcements are retained from battle to battle. The result is a big back and forth battle across a jigsaw puzzle of Stalingrad.
4) The add-on Pacific Storm: This is not guaranteed to be a paid expansion. The devs have explicitly said many times that it totally depends on the quality of the finished product at the time of RO:HOS's release. Besides, it gives a great opportunity for modders to make some money. We all know mod devs make the best retail developers, so I see this as a big positive.
On a more broad scale, I actually think that RO:HOS is going to be even more realistic than RO on many levels. There will now be controlled breathing for accurate shots, first person weapon collision, almost pixel-specific damage modeling with a bleeding/bandaging system that is coordinated with it, the ability to see enemies in your peripheral vision, adjustable rifle and MG sights, and suppression effects. At the same time, they're making the game more realistic by making things that would be simple to do in real life simple to do in-game -- like mounting MG's and the like.
Sorry for the long post, but it really irks me when I see people complaining RO:HOS is pandering to the masses when that isn't consistent at all with what information/media they have released about the game!
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hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
Hey I just wrote an essay in RO:HOS's defense, on another forum. I feel like I should get a medal or an internet cookie or something!
Here's the link:
http://www.forum.resistanceandliberation.com/showthread.php?p=136893#post136893
I posted it here, because it is relevant to most people's concerns about the game. STOP WORRYING. Here's what I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dBoy
The only thing which bothers me is making the game for wider audience,i.e. :lower smg recoil, faster gameplay and that new 'unique' gamemode, no information about vehicles...Rising Sun as paid add-on?Damn!
Well you're wrong in pretty much every way here buddy.
1) Lower SMG recoil: RO's SMG recoil was outrageously high and actually very unrealistic, notably with the PPSH, which fired a pistol round. The RO devs even admitted to this on the forums and promised to make it more historically accurate in RO:HOS.
2) Faster gameplay: This is a very general statement, but the only things to suggest this that have been announced don't have anything to do with faster, but "easier." They're making it easier to mount MG's on surfaces. They're making it easier to see your objectives. They're making it easier to communicate with teammates. All of these things sound positive to me.
3) Unique gamemode: Nothing "unrealistic" about this. They already announced a new game mode called Countdown, which sounds like a blast. You have an assault-type game mode and before each objective, everyone gets one life. Once each objective is completed, the entire team respawns to take the next one. On top of this,there is a gameplay timer on each objective to keep gameplay rolling and prevent camping from the attacking team. Then both teams switch attack/defending roles.
Then, they're also adding in a multiplayer campaign which connects game maps to a risk-board type game play. So a victory in one map leads to another battle, and reinforcements are retained from battle to battle. The result is a big back and forth battle across a jigsaw puzzle of Stalingrad.
4) The add-on Pacific Storm: This is not guaranteed to be a paid expansion. The devs have explicitly said many times that it totally depends on the quality of the finished product at the time of RO:HOS's release. Besides, it gives a great opportunity for modders to make some money. We all know mod devs make the best retail developers, so I see this as a big positive.
On a more broad scale, I actually think that RO:HOS is going to be even more realistic than RO on many levels. There will now be controlled breathing for accurate shots, first person weapon collision, almost pixel-specific damage modeling with a bleeding/bandaging system that is coordinated with it, the ability to see enemies in your peripheral vision, adjustable rifle and MG sights, and suppression effects. At the same time, they're making the game more realistic by making things that would be simple to do in real life simple to do in-game -- like mounting MG's and the like.
Sorry for the long post, but it really irks me when I see people complaining RO:HOS is pandering to the masses when that isn't consistent at all with what information/media they have released about the game!
It's not your job to defend the game, that's the developers job.
Making it easier to see your objectives and making it easier to communicate with teammates... BFBC2 is one game that did this, with A and B hovering in your HUD, and red triangles over the enemies your teammates have spotted.
Easier to see your objectives and easier to communicate with teammates might NOT be something I want in ROHoS. And "faster gameplay" does sound like "more run'n'gun" to me. Realism is not only about damage, but realistic objectives and gameplay, too. Running around capping flags while holding realistic guns does not make a realistic game.
In real life, when shooting accurate single shots with a rifle, you do not "hold breath". You fire when you have exhaled, they teach this in the military. So controlled breathing isn't something I'd call realistic. You should fire after exhaling, not hold breath. (It'll make your muscles tremble slightly very quickly).
Bleeding/Bandaging system, again, brings BFBC2 to mind. Again, not a good thing. Though it really depends how it's done, but...
I'm totally against peripheral vision of any kind and supression effects that do anything more than darkest hour's supression effect and even that is too much, with the aimpoint bobbing around. It shouldn't, if your gun is supported aagainst something, blinking your eyes doesn't make it magically move around.
It really irks me when I see people going on about "ROHoS will be great and fine stop complaining!" when people might not be complaining, but worried about which direction the game is going instead. I, for one, have hope in TWI, but I fear the worst.
And there is no way of knowing which way it'll go until we have a beta. So stop defending something you don't know anything about. We can just ask, not answer. Unless you're some kind of secret beta tester?
Having some doubts or being sceptic is not a bad thing, but when most of it is based on the simple fact that more fluid functions = arcade bull****, then the bull**** metre starts automatically overflow to the point someone would like to ask "wtf" especially when there's still relatively low amount of information avaible. Fedorov's point about OFP and ArmA (and also H&D) of giving the illusion that realistic = clunky and 'hard'. While this is debatable to some degree - it's mostly based on issues of the engine and keyboard's functions itself. Certain things are easy to do in real life, but due the enornomous problem between the relation of your brain's functions vs keyboard's functions it becomes difficult to make it feel natural in realistic sense of the word, while every typical arcade game actually achieves beter realism (in very loose sense of the word) as the basic functions are far more fluid. Of course, giving it a more detailed view or looking from physical realism that's where plethoras of diffrences starts to pop up compared to RO E.G.
Simulating proper warzone and military conflict was never easy. Some fundamental problems cannot be ever replicated 'properly' in any video game without making it artificial (even though this can be succesful to some degree). I believe Oleg Maddox said in one interview that one key design philosophy of IL-2 was not to make it 500% hardcore simulator porn, but instead that flying is where most of the 'fun' comes out. As a result most of the flight models and some more details involved there can take some time to master, while to get started you need only around 5-7 buttons rather than press 20 diffrent combinations just to start up your engine. Trained fighter (or bomber) pilot can do such complicated functions with ease, and while simulators are simulators there's plenty of people who can't bother spending 20 hours of training just to get their plane started and we face keyboard limitations aswell regarding certain functions. It's highly alienating in general unless you're a true hardcore fan or you've been pilot at some point of your life, which also makes the market even more niche than it was. Of course that would be realistic regarding military training and such, but the amount of people who would want to buy some old, real life training manuals and spend few months in front of a simulator just to get started would be very minimal.
Now what does this got to do with RO:HoS? The obvious questions of certain features are legit, but on what basis? We don't have really anything else to compare other than the complete opposites in terms of practical realism in which things are often done as 'incorrectly' (regarding the standard realism level found in RO, or even OFP or so) as possible on purpose to keep it with their own design philosophies and gameplay models. There is always the possibility of someone cocking up and hard, but my own personal speculation for TWI keeping low profile about their information is this: they know the basic features are condemned as arcade bull**** due the way they are often done, and while some were mentioned as key features of the game itself they want to get it right before reveling any further information. It allows also some satisfaction of tormenting the community and observe how it goes bat**** regarding some subjects
hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
But you completely missed my point. What I'm saying is that there is really nothing in the facts or media that Tripwire has released that suggests that the game is going in a bad direction. Honestly, I don't know what is causing all this suspicion.
Is it just the Heroes system? Honestly, as long as the game play is great and all of the realistic features that the devs have talked about are in the game, and the Heroes system is mostly cosmetic (which they have hinted at), I will trust the Tripwire devs.
So, from what I can see so far, I really have no reason to doubt Tripwire or the direction of the new game. It's not like they've announced a lack of dedicated servers, or taking out lean. In fact, they're introducing MORE interesting features while hopefully making the game less frustrating and more realistic in the right ways.
Hey I just wrote an essay in RO:HOS's defense, on another forum. I feel like I should get a medal or an internet cookie or something!
Here's the link:
[URL]http://www.forum.resistanceandliberation.com/showthread.php?p=136893#post136893[/URL]
I posted it here, because it is relevant to most people's concerns about the game. STOP WORRYING. Here's what I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dBoy
The only thing which bothers me is making the game for wider audience,i.e. :lower smg recoil, faster gameplay and that new 'unique' gamemode, no information about vehicles...Rising Sun as paid add-on?Damn!
Well you're wrong in pretty much every way here buddy.
1) Lower SMG recoil: RO's SMG recoil was outrageously high and actually very unrealistic, notably with the PPSH, which fired a pistol round. The RO devs even admitted to this on the forums and promised to make it more historically accurate in RO:HOS.
2) Faster gameplay: This is a very general statement, but the only things to suggest this that have been announced don't have anything to do with faster, but "easier." They're making it easier to mount MG's on surfaces. They're making it easier to see your objectives. They're making it easier to communicate with teammates. All of these things sound positive to me.
3) Unique gamemode: Nothing "unrealistic" about this. They already announced a new game mode called Countdown, which sounds like a blast. You have an assault-type game mode and before each objective, everyone gets one life. Once each objective is completed, the entire team respawns to take the next one. On top of this,there is a gameplay timer on each objective to keep gameplay rolling and prevent camping from the attacking team. Then both teams switch attack/defending roles.
Then, they're also adding in a multiplayer campaign which connects game maps to a risk-board type game play. So a victory in one map leads to another battle, and reinforcements are retained from battle to battle. The result is a big back and forth battle across a jigsaw puzzle of Stalingrad.
4) The add-on Pacific Storm: This is not guaranteed to be a paid expansion. The devs have explicitly said many times that it totally depends on the quality of the finished product at the time of RO:HOS's release. Besides, it gives a great opportunity for modders to make some money. We all know mod devs make the best retail developers, so I see this as a big positive.
On a more broad scale, I actually think that RO:HOS is going to be even more realistic than RO on many levels. There will now be controlled breathing for accurate shots, first person weapon collision, almost pixel-specific damage modeling with a bleeding/bandaging system that is coordinated with it, the ability to see enemies in your peripheral vision, adjustable rifle and MG sights, and suppression effects. At the same time, they're making the game more realistic by making things that would be simple to do in real life simple to do in-game -- like mounting MG's and the like.
Sorry for the long post, but it really irks me when I see people complaining RO:HOS is pandering to the masses when that isn't consistent at all with what information/media they have released about the game!
3 cheers! Hip hip!
The same could be said of what you are doing; the only real information you have about the game are a few alpha screenshots, a 10-minute early-alpha gameplay clip which showed about 2 new features in HOS, and then a few rough features lists. Therefore, one could argue that you don't have enough information to criticize the game eithier.
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hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
OK, this is a just criticism. Perhaps I did go too far in what I actually "know" about the game. All I'm saying is, based on the information and media that Tripwire has provided, I have a hard time finding bad vibes in their plans for RO:HOS, let alone reason to rant about them selling out! Am I suspicious of the Heroes system? Of course, but that's only because we don't know as much about it as other facets of the game.
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My seocnd point was directed at the guy saying it was too early to praise anything.
I honestly dont see this pandering in anyway to COD players other than the relaxed realism mode. And thats just used to get ppl adjusted to ROs realism. I mean from the short video they had awhile back they showed several things that are very realistic.
The first thing I noticed was the unique health system. Sure its sorta the same as RO1s but they mentioned that depending on where u were hit and how it would affect you differently.
1: they mentioned you could bleed out, and depending on where you were hit depended on how long it took you to bleed out.
2. Also depending on where you were hit you could try to patch it up so you dont bleed out. They also said there were some places which couldn't be patched and you'd bleed out anyway.
I imagin where you could patch up would be your arms and legs, and maybe the head to if it wasn't an instant kill shot. And yes we've all had it happen in RO where you get hit in the head and you dont instantly die so not be like "er thats impossible". Because in real life, depending on the damage done to your head and where you were, you could survive a shot it the head.
Places that can't be patched would make sense to be vital organs, like your lungs, or liver, ect. You know places where a simple field medic cant patch you up on the spot.
Now we go on to how this could possibly implement a cool medic system. Say your hit, you could call out some thing like "I'm wounded" and then that signals for someone whose playing a medic class, to come check you out. They could then do the bandaging part and it would be kool to see that. Not something like BC2s medic system where you actualy go down, and then some guy runs over with padels, hits you with them, and then your instantly back to life. You'd still have to be alive to get medical treatment. This is just an idea though.
Also on to the whole "quicker MG thing" I think by this they simply meant it would be easier to get into cover and set up an MG. Instead of having you phsicly look at where you want to set it up and aim towards it, you can just get near something and set the MG up. Although I must admit I would still like to see some MG set up time. Like deploying the bipod. Not what I saw in the video where he just sorta ploped it down on there.
The first thing I noticed was the unique health system. Sure its sorta the same as RO1s but they mentioned that depending on where u were hit and how it would affect you differently.
1: they mentioned you could bleed out, and depending on where you were hit depended on how long it took you to bleed out.
2. Also depending on where you were hit you could try to patch it up so you dont bleed out. They also said there were some places which couldn't be patched and you'd bleed out anyway.
I imagin where you could patch up would be your arms and legs, and maybe the head to if it wasn't an instant kill shot. And yes we've all had it happen in RO where you get hit in the head and you dont instantly die so not be like "er thats impossible". Because in real life, depending on the damage done to your head and where you were, you could survive a shot it the head.
Places that can't be patched would make sense to be vital organs, like your lungs, or liver, ect. You know places where a simple field medic cant patch you up on the spot.
Now we go on to how this could possibly implement a cool medic system. Say your hit, you could call out some thing like "I'm wounded" and then that signals for someone whose playing a medic class, to come check you out. They could then do the bandaging part and it would be kool to see that. Not something like BC2s medic system where you actualy go down, and then some guy runs over with padels, hits you with them, and then your instantly back to life. You'd still have to be alive to get medical treatment. This is just an idea though.
Also on to the whole "quicker MG thing" I think by this they simply meant it would be easier to get into cover and set up an MG. Instead of having you phsicly look at where you want to set it up and aim towards it, you can just get near something and set the MG up. Although I must admit I would still like to see some MG set up time. Like deploying the bipod. Not what I saw in the video where he just sorta ploped it down on there.
That's very true. I brought that up on the Codmaster's forum and BIS forums. Both games, while taking a different route to realism, both failed and gave everyone the impression that is what realism is about. So when I tell other gamers about realism, they are like oh sh1t, no thanks. I'll stick with my COD4.
hey i just wrote an essay in ro:hos's defense, on another forum. I feel like i should get a medal or an internet cookie or something!
Here's the link:
http://www.forum.resistanceandliberation.com/showthread.php?p=136893#post136893
i posted it here, because it is relevant to most people's concerns about the game. Stop worrying. Here's what i wrote:
Quote:
Originally posted by 3dboy
the only thing which bothers me is making the game for wider audience,i.e. :lower smg recoil, faster gameplay and that new 'unique' gamemode, no information about vehicles...rising sun as paid add-on?damn!
well you're wrong in pretty much every way here buddy.
1) lower smg recoil: Ro's smg recoil was outrageously high and actually very unrealistic, notably with the ppsh, which fired a pistol round. The ro devs even admitted to this on the forums and promised to make it more historically accurate in ro:hos.
2) faster gameplay: This is a very general statement, but the only things to suggest this that have been announced don't have anything to do with faster, but "easier." they're making it easier to mount mg's on surfaces. They're making it easier to see your objectives. They're making it easier to communicate with teammates. All of these things sound positive to me.
3) unique gamemode: Nothing "unrealistic" about this. They already announced a new game mode called countdown, which sounds like a blast. You have an assault-type game mode and before each objective, everyone gets one life. Once each objective is completed, the entire team respawns to take the next one. On top of this,there is a gameplay timer on each objective to keep gameplay rolling and prevent camping from the attacking team. Then both teams switch attack/defending roles.
Then, they're also adding in a multiplayer campaign which connects game maps to a risk-board type game play. So a victory in one map leads to another battle, and reinforcements are retained from battle to battle. The result is a big back and forth battle across a jigsaw puzzle of stalingrad.
4) the add-on pacific storm: This is not guaranteed to be a paid expansion. The devs have explicitly said many times that it totally depends on the quality of the finished product at the time of ro:hos's release. Besides, it gives a great opportunity for modders to make some money. We all know mod devs make the best retail developers, so i see this as a big positive.
On a more broad scale, i actually think that ro:hos is going to be even more realistic than ro on many levels. There will now be controlled breathing for accurate shots, first person weapon collision, almost pixel-specific damage modeling with a bleeding/bandaging system that is coordinated with it, the ability to see enemies in your peripheral vision, adjustable rifle and mg sights, and suppression effects. At the same time, they're making the game more realistic by making things that would be simple to do in real life simple to do in-game -- like mounting mg's and the like.
Sorry for the long post, but it really irks me when i see people complaining ro:hos is pandering to the masses when that isn't consistent at all with what information/media they have released about the game!
amen brother!
No, that is not rule. Sometimes facts are more true than speculations,
sometimes they are not.
Or do you still believe that John F. Kennedy was shooted by that skinny
man, who was able to shoot 3 rounds in 4,7 seconds to moving target
with his bolt-action rifle. That would be quite a performance even with
semi-automatic.
If we believe that fact is a statment gave by authorized person.
I dont believe on facts 100%, because if you say that game will have running pandas and it will be fun. Yes it can be
fact in your eyes. But not in my, thats why i keep speculating, until i personaly know.
Other intersting thing is that, Devs have recommand tens of times to read their post and facts and then there
are also those "heroes of facts" who post those fact statements which are collected from news.
Ya, we have read those news and we know content of those news for sure. But we speculate because its fun.
Forums exist because people love to speculate. Lets take example from this forum.
is RO:HoS pandering too much to the CoD crowd? Speculation will RO be like it should be or not.
Preorder and beta testing? Speculation about what kind of beta HOS should have
Winter War Speculation about why Finland was able to defence against Russia.
Tanks, vehicles and other Speculation about can it be fun to be a loader or not, even that it isnt even known if there is any tanks.
So without speculation there would be only a News statements and thousand "sounds awsome" post under it.
So i say all this got more to do that we love to speculate than what kind of game HOS will be.
Offcourse we could speculate even about Britneys Spears new album. But its easier to speculate about more
familiar topics. Like "Was the IS2 worst tank of the ww2?" or "Will HOS suck big time or not?"
But dont worries, new players havent arrived yet to forum, so there is just RO-veterans who will buy the game
for sure.
And yes we all descend from Golum and RO is our own precious, we wont give it to COD noobs.
Having too much time, dont take it seriously.
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